Comments on: Harry Potter and the Implausible Plot Device

By: Crooked Timber » » Harry Potter

Crooked Timber » » Harry Potter — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:45:25 +0000

[...] Good to see all the fuss and hype over the new Harry Potter. I wonder whether it’ll be better than the last one, which I thought was a bit of a disaster. It’s a little shorter, which is a good sign. Like many people, I have my doubts that Potter will still be read by children a few generations down the line. He may end up a curio like Billy Bunter, or even the Oz books, whose characters enter the culture but the novels hardly bear re-reading. But bugger posterity, to be honest: at some point you can’t argue with the huge queues of people waiting to buy the books. I’d happily settle for the gift of being able to write something that would be read by a hundreth as many people. posted on Saturday, July 16th, 2005 at 5:32 pm Post a comment [...]

By: Danny Yee

Danny Yee — Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:51:42 +0000

I’ve assembled a collection of serious criticism of the Harry Potter books, which may be of interest.

By: Bess

Bess — Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:46:07 +0000

“I’ve never seen such a collective of people who clearly can’t suspend their disbelief. And that’s fine, I guess, but I have to wonder why read fiction at all. And the argument that because something is wildly popular then it must be garbage is patently offensive.” I so dearly love this argument! It is such a favourite with Harry Potter fans. It never fails to come up. When all else is lost defend yourself against an argument no one has made. No one here said they disliked popular books. No one here said popularity meant something must be awful. Please, a five year old can see the ridiculousness of such posturing! But it never stops Harry Potter maniacs from hauling out this old hat routine time and again in an attempt to shame reasonable critics. That is not what anyone here has said. So why not stick to what people have said? In my experience Harry Potter fans are the biggest and most stubborn story readin’ snobs I have ever met. If you don’t like their holy lore, you are automatically deemed a stick in the mud that hasn’t any imagination. Even Star Trek fans are nicer. A few experiences with Harry Potter fans and their rabid nature is enough to make any rational thinking person sick to her stomach. It was enough to make my whole experience with the series a very sour one. Put your arrogance behind you guys. Just because I find Rowling’s heavy handed weilding of cliches too much like being bludgeoned over the head for 800 pages, doesn’t mean I haven’t an imagination. I love books. I love all types of books, even very popular ones. I even enjoyed a couple of the Harry Potter books, inspite of its unpleasant fans. I hate Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. It’s badly written. It is dull. And it is cliched. Rowling’s lost her way. And she may pick herself back up, but that can’t save this disaster. A good book later on won’t make this book any better. So go back to a JK Rowling worship site if you need to lick your wounds. I am sure you will find many people to soothe you and tell you how brilliant you are for liking this pathetic derivative attempt at depicting adolecense and war.

By: Kyle

Kyle — Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:01:09 +0000

You idiots!! Being adults i`d think some of you at least would understand that if harry had used the mirror there would be no book! Once again I say; you stupid idiots! Harry Potter and reading is my way of escaping from my boring little life into a world full of moving pictures, flying broomsticks spells,curses,hexes,potions &charms!With out J.K Rowling I coudn`t get through the day,and i`d also like to say that if all of ya`ll stupid closed minded adults don`t like the books then i suggest you dont read them and shut up with your complaints! (written by an eleven year old)

By: CheddarTrek

CheddarTrek — Tue, 20 Jan 2004 06:13:53 +0000

Hrmmm… plot devices… hrmmm…. yes…. Are there plot devices in HP? Yes. Is this a bad thing? It’s a matter of OPINION. Most of the plot devices in HP don’t bother me much, because there are parts of the actual plot and are a part of almost every story since, well, since the concept of reading fiction was devoloped. The only plot device that really bothers me is the constant use of coincidence. (JK isn’t TOO bad about this, but it’s still pretty evident in HP). I know that coincidences happen, but sometimes in HP it just seems as if there is coincidence after coincidence, and it just highly unlikely when one really stops to THINK about it. To me it seems that while a coincidence may ADVANCE the plot, it is rarely PART of the plot. The development in the relationship between Harry and Sirius may have been a plot device, but it was a big part of the plot. The same goes for Grawp. It doesn’t apply to the fact that Harry and co. constantly stumble upon important conversations at just the right moment (overhearing Hagrid & Maxime) and so on. What’s my point? I’m not sure. I suppose I am trying to say that I wish there were fewer (not none, but fewer) coincidence-related plot devices in works of fiction, and that I know and accept that nearly every work of fiction EVER has plot devices of some sort, and I can accept that and ENJOY it too.

By: Lynne

Lynne — Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:12:57 +0000

I’m no literary scholar. I can only think of one book I’ve really hated in all the books I’ve read over the years. I love the Harry Potter books and I’m unashamed to admit it. I think they’re clever and I refuse to pass judgment on series when it is only slightly more than half finished. So, what of the plot devices? JK Rowling’s use of polyjuice potion was a mere plot device in Book 2 and it came back to nip us in the behind in Book 4. We can all Monday Morning quarterback from the comfort of an anonymous blog. If her book is fit only for us simpletons, then count me among them! I guess I think that trying to cut down an author before she’s done is a waste of time. It’s almost as if naysayers are deliberately trying NOT to like it. I’ve never seen such a collective of people who clearly can’t suspend their disbelief. And that’s fine, I guess, but I have to wonder why read fiction at all. And the argument that because something is wildly popular then it must be garbage is patently offensive. While, I will agree it’s a bit premature to compare these books to “great children’s literature,” the jury is still out on this one because it isn’t done. The end may justify it. And please, ENOUGH with the adverb-bashing. Hermione waited for the newspaper eagerly. SO WHAT!? When did the adverb become public enemy No. 1? Of all the complaints to have about a book—she uses too many adverbs? Give me a break. Frankly, I thought it was a breath of fresh air from other authors who insist on cramming laborious adjectives to convey a thought to its nano-detail. Eagerly! Hermione waited eagerly. That works for me. I, for one, will campaign unceasingly to restore its reputation. —Lynne

By: jesi

jesi — Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:55:19 +0000

You are absolutely right. JKR’s Harry Potter in no way compares to Catcher in the Rye or Plath’s Bell Jar. The point being, IT’S NOT SUPPOSED TO! I very seriously doubt that at its first inception, Harry Potter was intended to be a metaphor for growing up, nor was it meant to compel audiences with the accuracy of teenaged angst. Frankly, Harry Potter is a cute story with cute characters – let it go at that.

By: anonymous

anonymous — Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:55:57 +0000

Yes, okay i agree with you in some of what you say. People have their own opinions on novels. Novels aren’t about being critisized by you sour people, but by expanding your imagination. Maybe kids may see something in the books that you people can’t see. HARRY POTTER RULES YOU WEIRDOS

By: tim gueguen

tim gueguen — Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:52:40 +0000

I stumbled across this discussion by accident, and I haven’t read any of the Potter books, but I rather enjoyed it nonetheless. I’m especially amused with the quote posted by Ms. Feingold with its overuse of eagerly. I’ve been doing quite a bit of writing lately, and one of the things I keep an eye open for is using the same words too much in a passage. You’d think a professionally released book would have an editor on the lookout for stuff like that.

By: Koen

Koen — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:11:09 +0000

While I’m prepared to accept that children’s books need simplistic plot devices and 2-dimensional characters to keep the attention of the audience, particularly today’s television-driven kids, I agree that there are too many discrepencies in the books to satisfy the more discerning reader. I have still enjoyed them though and have found many more fans than detractors even among the adults I know who’ve read them. And I’ve certainly read worse, Robert Jordan’s latest ‘Wheel of Time’ novel for instance. At least something happens in OOTP even if is all a bit contrived. My biggest sticking point with the series doesn’t actually come from OOTP. In ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, it is said that there isn’t a wizard who’s gone bad who wasn’t in Slytherin, and yet at this point it is thought that Sirius Black betrayed Harry’s parents to Voldemort. As it turns out, he didn’t, but another of James Potter’s friends, Peter Pettigrew did. Now, I assume that they were all in the same house as no one seems to make friends outside of their own houses, so does that mean they were in Slytherin? Well, certainly their antics in Snape’s memory are most Slytherin-like, and it could be that is why no one ever seems to mention what house Harry’s parents were in, but Snape was Slytherin so they surely would have been on the same ‘side’ then, so to speak. And as to Snape hating Harry so much, even to quietly supporting Malfoy’s taunts and bullying. I would have thought that given the treatment he received at school, he would have been dead against Malfoy’s antics even if he has a chip on his shoulder about Harry and all. And since he seems to enjoy bursting Harry’s bubble about his father, why did he try to keep Harry from seeing the memory in which James was acting like a real jerk? I mean, it should have given him a certain pleasure to see him so discomforted about it all, not sent him into a rage. But I have to say one thing about Harry being so dense. It is a classic adolescent trait to think you know everything. I know I can look back and wince at my own 15 year old antics just as much as at Harry’s (admittedly no one was actively trying to kill me) and I certainly thought my parents were being way too overprotective, so I wouldn’t have, and didn’t, talk to anyone or confide in them if I had a problem. So Harry is only a little bit exaggerated in that respect. And while I remembered Snape was a member of the Order, I certainly didn’t think of Sirius’ package and I wasn’t in a blind panic at the time, unlike Harry.

By: Rikuisu

Rikuisu — Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:14:22 +0000

I think that JKR has set up a wonderful facade in the first four books, showing the outside and letting us peek into the windows. And we loved them and expected much from this author who claimed to have everything planned out. However, once she led us through the door it was like we had been looking at a palace and walked into the home of a family with too many things to do and not enough time (clothes everywhere, pets running amuck, and the 9-5 Dad defrosting dinner on the stove). I expected so much from OotP, and I don’t think I overestimated what I thought I would find. I read a lot of fanfiction (and frankly, some of it is a lot better), and I expected a basic adventure tale with a format very similar to the other books. Well, I didn’t get anything like it, except in format. I’ve seen this plot before in beginner fanfics (“She did not just do that! Flashed through my heads a few times.) As to comment on Harry’s behavior and blatant stupidity, my brother is fifteen and I’ve noticed a marked difference in his behavior from less than a year ago. He’s never read Harry Potter, but the bahvior patterns are strikingly similar. It doesn’t excuse the things that were just plain poorly handled, but it does offer something. You’ve written a much more detailed explaintion of what went from than my simple “lack of communication” reasoning. Again, some of that is explained by events in other books (living in a cupboard and told to be quiet and not ask questions, anyone?), but he hasn’t learned in five years that if he just told somebody things could work out, only focusing on when they didn’t. She’s made a great facade, but it’s those author’s who can lead you through what lays behind it without tarnishing what came before that deserve to rank among the great authors. She’s got something interesting, but that’s as far as it goes. Yet there is an audio edition of OotP sitting on my desk. With all it’s problems I’m far too emersed in this world to run screaming now.

By: Ivy

Ivy — Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:06:03 +0000

Oh, thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. All of your points are exactly what I’ve been saying about Harry Potter since book 1. The “magic” of Rowling’s books is in the details – the names of textbooks, the accidents the students have as they learn their spells, the mysteries of Hogwarts castle. The characters, however, are for the most part one-dimensional and plot-driven. The dialog is clumsy. And there is far too much of what Roger Ebert calls the “idiot plot” – where people have to behave stupidly and studiously avoid common sense in order for the plot – such as it is – to progress.

By: Doug

Doug — Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:33:14 +0000

Another irritation is how little characters apart from Harry – good, bad or otherwise – do when they’re off stage. It’s as if Harry animates the whole world, and the other characters are only interesting in their interactions with HP.

By: Sharon Ferguson

Sharon Ferguson — Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:30:23 +0000

Malfoy Jr. I have no idea why Harry is now even remotely afraid of or even irritated by Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle, all garden-variety school bullies who have never displayed much in the way of special magical talents More to the point, why does Malfoy even CARE what happens to Harry if his Daddy is going to take care of it all? Seems to me Malfoy would have figured out by this time he’d have more success standing back and letting Harry do things to himself. My impatience with Rowlings is that she has excellent characters that, given a bit more developement, might give her more plot. But then, her reliance on adverbs keeps getting in the way. Im reserving final judgement for when I read the final book. If certain characters have not changed and grown (aside from Harry) from what they were to start out with, and that includes the ‘bullies’, I will probably then write it completely off as pap. Until then, I rather enjoy reading the books. The afterdinner peppermint to heavy tomes like Lord of the Rings and the Rule of Life as Developed by Saint Benedict.

By: g. deedee

g. deedee — Sun, 10 Aug 2003 04:19:55 +0000

“Hardly the stuff to rival Salinger or Plath or even better children’s authors like Michael Bedard. ” Oh and to make my point perfectly clear – I have a round about way of saying things … I meant that while Order of the Phoenix is not great literature (like Plath or Salinger’s work), it also doesn’t live up to its rivals’ attempts. So no… Salinger and Plath are not children’s authors just because I read them both when I was a child. Sorry for being so wordy…