Comments on: Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy

By: SHAHROKH

SHAHROKH — Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:03:20 +0000

irane I am

By: Dan Simon

Dan Simon — Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:40:51 +0000

See here for my response.

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:13:18 +0000

Of course I endorse the Geneva Conventions. And of course there are valid grounds for criticizing some tactics of the military in Iraq. I think all involved hope such measures are only temporary in nature. All I ask is that it is put in perspective. What is the alternative? It is a tragically complex situation in which many of the policy choices are ones that chose between two less-than-ideal options. There are many dying for the hope of an Iraqi democracy one day. All I ask is that we remember that before we come to make such moral judgments against them. I think reducing what is happening in Iraq to comments like “We’re bringing democracy to Iraq, and we’ll shoot any Iraqi who disagrees . . . compulsory freedom” is both dangerous and simple-minded. Ultimately, I believe it undermines any case for humanitarian intervention in the future.

By: John Isbell

John Isbell — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:43:19 +0000

Darin, here is a very simple multiple choice for you: 1. I endorse the Geneva Conventions the US signed. 2. I do not endorse the Geneva Conventions the US signed. Go ahead and pick either one. Take as long as you want. I pick 1.

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:11:44 +0000

You can define “academics” any way you choose. Is it really critical to my point? How about “a member of an institution of higher learning.” The fact is that volume of criticism and anger coming out of the intellectual classes that is aimed toward the Bush administration’s policies pales in comparison to the outrage that was aimed toward Hussain, or toward the horrible dictatorship in North Korea, or the tragedy in Rwanda for that matter. I say that in the aggregate sense. Obviously there are those who have been consistent throughout. In my experience, however, they have been in the minority. Yes, a broad generalization. But it was also made in the context of a brief post on a message board. I’m sorry if my failure to spend a paragraph to define my terms somehow mislead you.

By: DocG

DocG — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:03:05 +0000

Ok, Darin, glad to hear you’re so well versed in “academics.” Would that be journals like ForeignAffairs_, or perhaps something more like cultural critiques to be found in ModernLanguage_Quarterly_? Just which “Academics” are you referring to? Political Science professors, or maybe just people with higher IQs than the average house pet? We’re dying to hear more of your priceless insight, please share. DocG

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 14:36:40 +0000

Personally, I much prefer democratic change by UN committee. I know the Iraqis were quite grateful to the scores of academics who were were equally outraged by the tyrannical regime that ruled for the past 30 years. I know I enjoyed reading the pages and pages dedicated to ending the Hussain regime. Almost as much as I now enjoy reading the paragraphs of outrage they write about the plight of those living under theocratic tyranny in Iran. Or those who live under a brutal dictatorship in North Korea. Oh wait, perhaps they are just created in the imagination of the evil moron Bush? Its quite tragic that the barbaric American forces had to go and derail the previously virtuous and peaceful path to freedom in Iraq. I wonder what sort of commentary I would be reading if the US had not sat back and ignored Rwanda. I’m sure the same group of cynical self-admiring critics would be deriding the imperialist west and their love of force until they were blue in the face.

By: rea

rea — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:38:45 +0000

We’re bringing democracy to Iraq, and we’ll shoot any Iraqi who disagrees . . . compulsory freedom. Look, I don’t ask for much—just a foreign policy that isn’t an oxymoron. Is that too much to ask?

By: Dan Hardie

Dan Hardie — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:34:02 +0000

I’m Doug and I’m going to get awfully cross about a flippant remark on a blog comments thread. Because- get some perspective here, guys- that’s the real issue, not trivia like soldiers from my country bulldozing civilian houses. Gee, I’m not even gonna mention minor stuff like that.

By: Doug

Doug — Mon, 08 Dec 2003 08:28:00 +0000

Nina, indeed it does make a difference. Matt W., I can see that interpretation as well. Though I don’t think a good way of condemning a bigoted point of view is to make another sweeping, unsupportable generalization. Certainly not in a medium where the tone of voice is unknowable.

By: msg

msg — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:11:35 +0000

Saddam and Gomorrah, how convenient. The difference between Iraq and South Central Los Angeles is… I forgot. Wait, there it is. Strategic interests. Whose strategy exactly isn’t ever made explicit. Maybe we could put the whole of Mesopotamia in prison. Just build a wall all the way around it, and rename it. Add on as needed. Privatize it too. Or maybe we should build one tiny little section of wall that loops back on itself, at some ceremonial spot of ecumenical significance, with about a yard and a half of lawn in the middle, and say everything outside of that is now a prison. The whole world as locked-down penitentiary. Arrest everyone just in case. Security is paramount. Not to be confused with United Artists, or Sony. Somewhat more seriously, the semantic confusion that facilitated that powder-puff outburst, the “nominative aggregate” versus the “individual member with distinct attributes” thing, that’s at the heart of a lot of the logical collapse of current moral systems hmm? Both ways. Cowards hide in the group as they act against its best interest, concealing their independent culpability behind the group history, and zealots ignore the individuals within and attack the group in retaliation for the actions of a minority. So Wolfowitz and Rove are Americans, US style, and act in the name of America, and some backpacking neo-hippie gets spit on in the souk, for having an Oklahoman accent. There are of course far worse examples, saturated in violence and fear, occurring daily. Nicht bin ein cowboy, dude.

By: Matt Weiner

Matt Weiner — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:47:31 +0000

I thought that Kieran was making the point that Capt. Brown’s statement was racist, and that it seemed better applicable to Capt. Brown and to other official representatives of the U.S. than to Arabs, based on the activities described. I certainly didn’t take it as a blanket condemnation of all Americans. After all, some of his best friends are… oh, never mind.

By: Henry Farrell

Henry Farrell — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:54:40 +0000

Guys, guys. Cool it a little, this ain’t LGF or Atrios’ comment-board.

By: nina

nina — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:38:05 +0000

Well, my response when I read that particular statement was, “And this makes them different from the Bush administration how?” Is that narrower application acceptable to you, Doug? If not, please provide examples of the administration’s major initiatives not motivated chiefly by pride, saving face, or the desire to display force, physical or political.

By: Dan the Man

Dan the Man — Sun, 07 Dec 2003 16:18:00 +0000

Shorter Doug: Doug is a brain dead moronic idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.