Comments on: Catastrophic spider http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:39:04 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: JP http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17277 JP Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:18:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17277 <i>Not sure that any of them are greater than Kant, but that’s almost three dozen from German history that any nation would be proud of.</i> Let's not forget about <a href="http://www.askmen.com/women/models/1_heidi_klum.html">Heidi Klum</a>. Not sure that any of them are greater than Kant, but that’s almost three dozen from German history that any nation would be proud of. Let’s not forget about Heidi Klum.

]]> By: Dell Adams http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17276 Dell Adams Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:30:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17276 To people who were asking for a short, readable introduction to Kant's philosophy, I recommend Kant's own "Prolegomena". To people who were asking for a short, readable introduction to Kant’s philosophy, I recommend Kant’s own “Prolegomena”.

]]> By: amoeba http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17275 amoeba Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:48:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17275 200 years ... and still a virgin 200 years … and still a virgin

]]> By: Kieran Healy http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17274 Kieran Healy Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:06:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17274 <i>I have not read enough of Einstien’s life to know how he felt about this</i> There's a famous quote from him (I remember reading it years ago in <i>Einstein for Beginners</i>) that goes, "If relativity is proved right the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist. If relativity is proved wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew." I have not read enough of Einstien’s life to know how he felt about this There’s a famous quote from him (I remember reading it years ago in Einstein for Beginners) that goes, “If relativity is proved right the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist. If relativity is proved wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew.”

]]> By: Kris http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17273 Kris Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:20:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17273 Leibniz should be on that list, man. Leibniz! Leibniz should be on that list, man. Leibniz!

]]> By: Decnavda http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17272 Decnavda Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:34:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17272 Ummm.... Including Einstien on the list of notable Germans may be technically acruate, but is it really FAIR? A coworker of mine is the daughter of a Jewish refugee from Austria who won a Nobel a few years back for his work on the brain. My coworker related how angry her father got when he was contacted by reporters from Austrian newpapers wanting to write stories about the "Austrian" Nobel prize winner. He told them on no uncertain terms that he was an American, not an Austrian - if Austria didn't want him then, it couldn't claim him now. I have not read enough of Einstien's life to know how he felt about this, but I suggest that nations should be equitably estopped from claiming credit for the achievements of those they rejected. Ummm…. Including Einstien on the list of notable Germans may be technically acruate, but is it really FAIR? A coworker of mine is the daughter of a Jewish refugee from Austria who won a Nobel a few years back for his work on the brain. My coworker related how angry her father got when he was contacted by reporters from Austrian newpapers wanting to write stories about the “Austrian” Nobel prize winner. He told them on no uncertain terms that he was an American, not an Austrian – if Austria didn’t want him then, it couldn’t claim him now. I have not read enough of Einstien’s life to know how he felt about this, but I suggest that nations should be equitably estopped from claiming credit for the achievements of those they rejected.

]]> By: des http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17271 des Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:34:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17271 It's not his birthday, persons, it's his <em>deathday</em>, or rather it was yesterday. <p> <blockquote> If it's from Kant, which work was it from? </blockquote> <p> 20 minutes ago I had no idea and I don't really know any German, but thanks to the magic of Google, it's from <a href="http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/kant/absicht/absicht.htm">the essay</a> in the Berlinische Monatsschrift (November 1784, S. 385-411) (The celebrated "Idea to a general history with world-civil intention"), which says: <p> <blockquote> <i>[A]us so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden.</i:> <p> [F}rom so bent wood, when from which humans are made, can nothing completely straight are gezimmert. <blockquote> <p> How true that is, how very true. <p> (Translations with a little help from the <a href="http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr">fish</a>) <p> InterWebNet, I *heart* u! It’s not his birthday, persons, it’s his deathday, or rather it was yesterday.

If it’s from Kant, which work was it from?

20 minutes ago I had no idea and I don’t really know any German, but thanks to the magic of Google, it’s from the essay in the Berlinische Monatsschrift (November 1784, S. 385-411) (The celebrated “Idea to a general history with world-civil intention”), which says:

[A]us so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden.

[F}rom so bent wood, when from which humans are made, can nothing completely straight are gezimmert.

How true that is, how very true.

(Translations with a little help from the fish)

InterWebNet, I heart u!

]]> By: Phil Arete http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17270 Phil Arete Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:05:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17270 I thought the "crooked timber" quote was from Isaiah Berlin. I've seen it attributed to Kant elsewhere, but I assumed it was spurious. If it's from Kant, which work was it from? I thought the “crooked timber” quote was from Isaiah Berlin. I’ve seen it attributed to Kant elsewhere, but I assumed it was spurious. If it’s from Kant, which work was it from?

]]> By: goethean http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17269 goethean Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:05:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17269 Actually, the truly amazing thing is Kant's *lack* of influence on the 20th century. The intellectual mainstream hasn't caught up to him yet. If Bertrand Russell or G.E. Moore had understood the first Critique, Anglo-American Analytic Philosophy as we know it would have never begun. Kant solved the mind/body problem by noting that the world is mental. Einstein understood that, but did Stephan Jay Gould? Does Daniel Dennett? Does Richard Rorty? These supposed intellectual giants are still working in a pre-Kantian, that is a Cartesian, framework. And this stuff does trickle down. Your typical scientist is also working in a Cartesian framework. Kant opened the door to a post-metaphysical understanding of the world. Heidegger entered that door. So did Whitehead. So did Aurobindo. But mainstream academia still doesn't get Kant. Actually, the truly amazing thing is Kant’s lack of influence on the 20th century. The intellectual mainstream hasn’t caught up to him yet. If Bertrand Russell or G.E. Moore had understood the first Critique, Anglo-American Analytic Philosophy as we know it would have never begun. Kant solved the mind/body problem by noting that the world is mental. Einstein understood that, but did Stephan Jay Gould? Does Daniel Dennett? Does Richard Rorty? These supposed intellectual giants are still working in a pre-Kantian, that is a Cartesian, framework. And this stuff does trickle down. Your typical scientist is also working in a Cartesian framework. Kant opened the door to a post-metaphysical understanding of the world. Heidegger entered that door. So did Whitehead. So did Aurobindo. But mainstream academia still doesn’t get Kant.

]]> By: mallarme http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17268 mallarme Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:28:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17268 <i>Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals is notably harder that What is E or Perpetual Peace, but it’s a fair bit more managable than the big three. Someone who’s intrepid and has a bit of experience with philosophical background could do it on their own, I imagine.<i> I don't think it's that difficult of a read. It takes some time and concentration, but no real philosophy background to understand. I'm sure there are nuances and minor points I missed when I read it due to my lack of context, but I enjoyed it and understood all the major points. Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals is notably harder that What is E or Perpetual Peace, but it’s a fair bit more managable than the big three. Someone who’s intrepid and has a bit of experience with philosophical background could do it on their own, I imagine. I don’t think it’s that difficult of a read. It takes some time and concentration, but no real philosophy background to understand. I’m sure there are nuances and minor points I missed when I read it due to my lack of context, but I enjoyed it and understood all the major points.

]]> By: bob mcmanus http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17267 bob mcmanus Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:57:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17267 I have embarked on an in-depth study of Kant. It started with Rawls, and some thinking about formalism and intuitionism in TOJ. Have spent about a week reading secondary material, with good aid from S Palmquist's site. I am thankful you alerted me to his birthday, which made for a nice point for starting to read the original works. Having studied several of the ethical works before, I have started on Judgement, plan to work backwards (sideways, whatever, as I come across a term like real or idea, I will research it). I didn't find Practical Reason all that difficult to read, although the subtlety of the ideas needs a lot of work. I enjoy reading Kant. There is a joy in the man, a subtle humour and wit, a pleasure of careful craftmanship. We have even yet to realize how great, and how good, Immanual Kant was as a man and philosopher. And I want to thank Doug for his list. And thank the Germans for giving us more than their fair share of geniuses. I have embarked on an in-depth study of Kant. It started with Rawls, and some thinking about formalism and intuitionism in TOJ. Have spent about a week reading secondary material, with good aid from S Palmquist’s site. I am thankful you alerted me to his birthday, which made for a nice point for starting to read the original works. Having studied several of the ethical works before, I have started on Judgement, plan to work backwards (sideways, whatever, as I come across a term like real or idea, I will research it). I didn’t find Practical Reason all that difficult to read, although the subtlety of the ideas needs a lot of work. I enjoy reading Kant. There is a joy in the man, a subtle humour and wit, a pleasure of careful craftmanship. We have even yet to realize how great, and how good, Immanual Kant was as a man and philosopher. And I want to thank Doug for his list. And thank the Germans for giving us more than their fair share of geniuses.

]]> By: DJW http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17266 DJW Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:21:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17266 <i>Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals</i> is notably harder that What is E or Perpetual Peace, but it's a fair bit more managable than the big three. Someone who's intrepid and has a bit of experience with philosophical background could do it on their own, I imagine. It's about 70 pages. The Hackett edition also contains another fun essay, "On the old saw, that may be true in theory but it won't work in practice." THis book will also introduce the reader to one of Kant's more famous ideas, the categorical imperative. Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals is notably harder that What is E or Perpetual Peace, but it’s a fair bit more managable than the big three. Someone who’s intrepid and has a bit of experience with philosophical background could do it on their own, I imagine. It’s about 70 pages. The Hackett edition also contains another fun essay, “On the old saw, that may be true in theory but it won’t work in practice.” THis book will also introduce the reader to one of Kant’s more famous ideas, the categorical imperative.

]]> By: Doug http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17265 Doug Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:22:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17265 Yo Fred! Beethoven Brahms Strauss (any of several) Mozart Bach (several) Haydn Handel Mendehlssohn Schumann Schubert Einstein Gauss Planck Roentgen Goethe Schiller Nietzsche Hegel Goedel Kleist Schlegel (several) Marx Engels Schopenhauer Rilke Heine Kafka Luther Böll Celan Grass Brecht Mann Not sure that any of them are greater than Kant, but that's almost three dozen from German history that any nation would be proud of. Just off the top of my head, and limited to people immediately recognizable by a single name. Given first and last names, the list would grow very long indeed. A politician from the Austrian provinces (Californians take note) does not constitute the whole of German history. Yo Fred! Beethoven Brahms Strauss (any of several) Mozart Bach (several) Haydn Handel Mendehlssohn Schumann Schubert Einstein Gauss Planck Roentgen Goethe Schiller Nietzsche Hegel Goedel Kleist Schlegel (several) Marx Engels Schopenhauer Rilke Heine Kafka Luther Böll Celan Grass Brecht Mann Not sure that any of them are greater than Kant, but that’s almost three dozen from German history that any nation would be proud of. Just off the top of my head, and limited to people immediately recognizable by a single name. Given first and last names, the list would grow very long indeed. A politician from the Austrian provinces (Californians take note) does not constitute the whole of German history.

]]> By: Alan K. Henderson http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17264 Alan K. Henderson Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:31:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17264 I once took one of those silly online quiizzes that's intended to assess how the test taker jives with a selection of philosophers. (That my Sartre score was double digits rasies questions about its accuracy.) My Kant score was 100%. Well, that piques my curiosity. I'll have to do a little reading to see if the quiz was even remotely correct. I once took one of those silly online quiizzes that’s intended to assess how the test taker jives with a selection of philosophers. (That my Sartre score was double digits rasies questions about its accuracy.) My Kant score was 100%. Well, that piques my curiosity. I’ll have to do a little reading to see if the quiz was even remotely correct.

]]> By: Neil Sinhababu http://crookedtimber.org/2004/02/12/catastrophic-spider/comment-page-1/#comment-17263 Neil Sinhababu Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:22:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1051#comment-17263 Thanks for using the Nietzsche reference. :-) Thanks for using the Nietzsche reference. :-)

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