Comments on: ‘Upstate’

By: The Good doctor

The Good doctor — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:13:23 +0000

For a real update on the varieties of “upstate” about to tangle your heels, go to my remarks on the subject at http://waxbanks.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/upstate.html, /s’il vous plait./

By: Doug Turnbull

Doug Turnbull — Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:52:54 +0000

Tossing in my two cents about Illinois, downstate really is everything South of I-80, which is close but not quite the same thing as “everything outside of the Chicago metro area.” As for the midwest, I think your past discussions of it miss an important regional factor, which is college athletic conferences. The Midwest consists of the original Big Ten (meaning no Penn State), and the old Big 8 (which merged with the Southwestern Athletic conference and brought in Texas/OK/OK St. This definition of the midwest both fits the correct boundaries and also explains why the Dakotas are not normally considered midwest. Oh, and Upstate New York is, to outsiders, anything north of NYC.

By: bza

bza — Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:26:19 +0000

Late to the game, but I have to disagree with Zizka: I grew up in Missouri and can report that, at least in the parts of the state that are flat, everybody considers it to be the Midwest. I think that indicates a pretty fair criterion, actually: flat farmland in the middle of the coutry gets to count as Midwest.

By: Stentor

Stentor — Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:54:43 +0000

At least New Yorkers know that there is an upstate out there somewhere. I lived in Pennsylvania most of my life, but until a few weeks ago I hadn’t known that Philadelphians considered the rest of us to be “upstate.” Having lived unambiguously upstate in NY for four years (Hamilton), I say that anyone who chooses to inhabit the gray area between Albany and NYC is just asking for trouble.

By: Tom Runnacles

Tom Runnacles — Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:07:35 +0000

My brother is a Brit transplanted to NY, and thus pretty much aims for the ‘more of a New Yorker than the locals’ label. His view seems to be that upstate starts at about 14th Street. When I visited recently, he strongly resisted my plan to go up to 48th on the grounds that ‘they’re not like us up there’.

By: Al

Al — Sun, 07 Mar 2004 05:43:04 +0000

North of 125th? I thought it was north of 14th. What? We here in Chelsea are definitely not upstate. Upstate begins at 59th Street, since, obviously, the UPPER East/West Sides are UPstate.

By: Zizka

Zizka — Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:48:45 +0000

Well, as far as “Midwest” is concerned, it’s not Eastern Seaboard, not New England, not Southern, not Border, and not Western. Ranches (as opposed to farms) and mountains define the West. I have an agenda, all right, and being Canadian is OK. The southern agricultural parts of Saskatchawan, Manitoba, and Western Ontario are Midwestern. Alberta isn’t. Drawing the Iowa-Missori line straight east and west and the dipping up North would catch it. So Western Pennsylvania and New York would be included. But Southern Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio wouldn’t. Missouri and Kansas are tempting but no go; too Southern. (My sister lived in Kansas and I have nothing good to say about the state, and especially not about Liddy Dole. Kansas has a distinct culture of awfulness which she embodies perfectly). Kentucky is not even tempting. Nebraska and some part of Eastern Montana might be included. The Black Hills in S.D. are Western. Everyone calls Ohio Midwestern, and if it is, then Pittsburgh and Buffalo have to be.

By: carpeicthus

carpeicthus — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:51:43 +0000

As a former resident of WAY upstate Plattsburgh and Lake Placid and now resident of the Bronx, I can definitively say that upstate is anything North of the Tappan Zee. Nyack? Champlain? Buffalo? All the same.

By: Matt Weiner

Matt Weiner — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:19:27 +0000

Rich is right that upstate can mean prison, but it doesn’t only mean that; I think this comes from the fact that most prisons are outside NYC. drapeto, my mom’s from Inwood, and I’m afraid you have a blood feud on your hands. :-)

By: Rich

Rich — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 17:59:29 +0000

I’m born and raised in Manhattan, and went to college in Albany before ultimately returning to Manhattan (following grad school out of state). My understanding is that “upstate” is a euphemism for “prison.” eg, if you refer to someone as being upstate, it means he’s in Sing Sing, Attica, etc.

By: chujoe

chujoe — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:53:53 +0000

From Syracuse to the Canadian border is “the north country.”

By: Ophelia Benson

Ophelia Benson — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:57:26 +0000

Yes, well of course the ambiguity about Missouri goes back to the Missouri Compromise. Been with the state as long as it’s been a state. It should have been Midwestern, but became Southern because of the Compromise. And what a can of worms that was. When in doubt about Missouri just think Huck Finn and Jim.

By: Mr Ripley

Mr Ripley — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:49:05 +0000

I still want to know whether Missouri’s southern or midwestern. Or maybe certain regions of it are southern, as is the case with Maryland?

By: Chris Marcil

Chris Marcil — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 05:23:59 +0000

There are degrees of Upstateness, too, correlated in my mind with a hatred of New York City. Growing up in Amsterdam, NY (formerly the Rug City), I knew people that hated to drive to Albany; too much traffic. My brother worked summers for the Montgomery County road department (Amsterdam with its population of 18,000 being the queen bee of Montgomery County); he and his friend Paul would get stoned in the morning, pick up the Village Voice, and go to work doing stuff like dragging deer off the shoulder of Route 5S in Canajoharie. One time one of the workers said to him, “You got three types of people in New York City. You got your hippies, you got your freaks, and you got your dopers.” My brother readily agreed.

By: Katie K

Katie K — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:49:37 +0000

As a Connecticut native (nutmegger), I argue that the line between the New York area and New England goes with Fairfield County. True CT people don’t think of Fairfield County as being part of us, whereas New Haven is definitely part of CT and in New England.