Comments on: On Being Put Off Wagner Forever

By: milt rosenberg

milt rosenberg — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:04:31 +0000

By their essays shall ye know them! Try to read his stuff. It is more pumped up and more repititious than his music—and the ultimate leitmotif is the corrupting, verminous presence of the Jews. No Wagner, no Debussy? No Wagner, probably no Hitler!

By: milt rosenberg

milt rosenberg — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:03:47 +0000

By: milt rosenberg

milt rosenberg — Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:03:33 +0000

By: Walt Pohl

Walt Pohl — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:30:34 +0000

I personally like Wagner, at least in small doses. I did start to watch a TV version of “Siegfried”, and I found it incredibly dull. The repetition of leitmotifs over long enough stretches becomes grating—like we’re watching a sung version of Star Wars or something. There is a lot of Wagner I do like, such as the prelude to Tristan, or “liebwohl” from the Ring. But a world in which no one hated Wagner would be intolerable.

By: Abiola Lapite

Abiola Lapite — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:53:56 +0000

By the way, Hitler liked Mickey Mouse reels too. Anybody about to give up on Disney’s output? Kim Jong Il likes Cognac and fast cars; let’s bin those as well.

By: Abiola Lapite

Abiola Lapite — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:51:17 +0000

“Hitler a vegetarian? He ate pork and other pig stuff.” No he didn’t. Hitler really was a vegetarian. This argument a lot of veggies like to make is pretty stupid anyway, as others have pointed out here. For goodness sake, the man liked to keep clean – should we all roll around in the mud because of that?

By: Dave F

Dave F — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:47:05 +0000

I think it was Khrushchev who was a big fan of Hollywood movies. I seem to recall a tabloid hoo-haa about Shirley Maclaine shaking her butt in his face when he visited the set during his famous visit to the US. Listening to Wagner is like being force-fed Black Forest Cake, for my money. He was a keen anti-Semite too, but music lovers will know that amid much gotterdammerung, Daniel Barenboim championed his music with concerts in Israel, purely on artistic grounds.

By: linden

linden — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:54:51 +0000

“And Stalin was apparently a fan of American westerns. But then again, I don’t see any reason to let what I choose to listen to or watch be decided by the tastes of world-famous dictators…” Actually, I remember reading recently that Stalin tried to have or wanted to have John Wayne killed.

By: Jean Lepley

Jean Lepley — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:54:23 +0000

Of course, if you’re going to define yourself by Hitler’s likes and dislikes you’ll want to take up smoking. Hitler didn’t allow it…

By: Jean Lepley

Jean Lepley — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:54:11 +0000

Of course, if you’re going to define yourself by Hitler’s likes and dislikes you’ll want to take up smoking. Hitler didn’t allow it…

By: Greg

Greg — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:08:47 +0000

Hitler liked his dog too, and believed in good roads. I guess they’re off our approved list too. Evelyn Waugh described the Battle of Crete, in which he fought, as being like German opera: too long and too loud. And on a thoroughly puerile note, some people seem to think this genuinely classic book on Wagner has a funny title.

By: jay

jay — Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:50:50 +0000

There’s a lot to make fun of in Wagner, and your experience is not one I’d be eager to repeat, either. On the other hand, the Ring cycle contains some of the most interesting, challenging, complex, and satisfying music I know of. Wagner was egotistical, bombastic, prejudiced and brilliant. Hemingway was reactionary and anti-semitic, but at least you don’t have to put up with belching when you read. I once owned a two-LP set called “An Introdution to Wagner’s Ring” which was sort of a one-hour (maybe 90 mins) lecture by Derek Cooke (IIRC). He showed what all the musical structure was, how one theme develops into another and changes, and how that expresses literary ideas that do not appear in the text as such. Amazing. The other introduction to Wagner’s Ring is by Anna Russell. Extremely funny, even if you are completely unfamiliar with the Ring. I actually think “Das Rheingold” is the most accessible. It’s shorter, and the plot stands on its own the best. Though Dutchman and Lohengrin are nice, too. My wife actually sort of likes Lohengrin, so that’s certainly in its favor.

By: aveggie

aveggie — Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:53:49 +0000

Hitler a vegetarian? He ate pork and other pig stuff. Even if pigs can fly it cannot become a plant.

By: mecki

mecki — Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:07:59 +0000

tomd wrote: “The Dutchman…no leitmotive.” Huh? It has some of the strongest leitmotive I’ve ever heard. My favorite is where the Leitmotiv of the Dutchman runs roughshod over the leitmotif of the sailors. Interesting comment on Levine, who I have found one of the few conductors who can make the Berlin Phil sit up and beg.

By: Motoko

Motoko — Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:07:54 +0000

I think “our children will be of the purest blood” is from “Good People Breed Good People”. Anyway, if somebody here wants to start listening to Wagner, try out Stokowski’s recording of the prelude to Act III of Tristan (with the English horn solo). There’s nothing like it.