Comments on: Yom Hashoah

By: P. Hoolahan

P. Hoolahan — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:04:40 +0000

Did you notice I also said “use” the Holocaust, which implies it is sometimes correctly used? Yes, of course. Sometimes. Maybe you could vet Eszter’s book before it gets published. Just to avoid abuse, you know. And fatigue.

By: Albert Law

Albert Law — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:16:59 +0000

Hoolahan, That name was making fun of an expression David Brooks came up with for people who have sex with more than one person per year. I thought it was ridiculous, so I began using it. Did you notice I also said “use” the Holocaust, which implies it is sometimes correctly used?

By: P. Hoolahan

P. Hoolahan — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:23:43 +0000

I’m going to read Albert’s comment not as something offensive to this writing… That’s your prerogative, Ezster. Some of us read his comments differently. about the way people… abuse the Holocaust Longer Albert Law (aka “Spiritual Genocide”): Norman G. Finkelstein

By: eszter

eszter — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:06:34 +0000

Scott, thanks for mentioning your Grandfather. For others who may be interested, here’s a link to related posts.

By: eszter

eszter — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:00:55 +0000

Albert, I didn’t say organizations per se, although I’m sure there are organizations as well. I just meant people in general, but no, I don’t have this documented in any systematic manner. (I suspect some online searches would start answering this question.) And yes, from the little I know about the Rwandan case, that one sounds like a legitimate comparison, very sadly. And it is quite unfortunate that not everyone is being remembered. There are some new initiatives in some places to be more inclusive in the remembrance (such is a recent exhibition in Budapest, for example).

By: Albert Law

Albert Law — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:43:11 +0000

“I’m going to read Albert’s comment not as something offensive to this writing, but a comment on how people do (or do not) deal with the Holocaust nowadays.” Correct. My comment wasn’t about the writing, it was about the way people pay attention to, use and abuse the Holocaust. Then again, WWII as a whole and Vietnam have suffered the same fate recently.

By: Albert Law

Albert Law — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:35:12 +0000

Eszter, Ah, ok. “I’m referring to two things. One is how many contemporary events and actions get compared to the Holocaust.” For sure. What organisations most often commit the fault of throwing the H word around, in your view? Do you think Rwandan comparison is ok? “The second related issue is how often the word Nazi is thrown around nowadays to characterize certain types of people.” How Godwin was right. What do you think of the little attention that’s been paid to the other 4 to 6 million people who died in similar circumstances in the same time period?

By: eszter

eszter — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:51:25 +0000

Albert, I’m referring to two things. One is how many contemporary events and actions get compared to the Holocaust. Of course, there are all sorts of atrocities, and perhaps it’s hard, impossible or maybe unnecessary to rank how horrible they are. Nonetheless, comparing lots of things to the Holocaust trivializes it in my opinion. The best explanation I can come up with as to why people make the comparisons is that people don’t fully grasp what the Holocaust was about. The second related issue is how often the word Nazi is thrown around nowadays to characterize certain types of people. I think this trivializes the term and the historical role of that group and ideology.

By: Tamar

Tamar — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:15:45 +0000

“What’s the reason it’s on the 27th of Nissan?” The answer is actually extremely complicated—for full explanation, see: http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/3410/format/html/displaystory.html

By: Albert Law

Albert Law — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:47:01 +0000

eszter, “As the numerous contemporary misinformed references to the Holocaust suggest, most people don’t have a very clear idea of what actually happened during those years.” What does a big swath of people ( say, 25% of the adult population ) ignore about it that’s a must-know? What facts do most have a fuzzy idea of that should be crisp? Does anyone have a URL about public percetion and knowledge of the Holocaust? What’s the reason it’s on the 27th of Nissan? “As the numerous contemporary misinformed references to the Holocaust suggest” Besides deniers, what are you thinking about?

By: j-marie

j-marie — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:26:29 +0000

Sorry for the duplicate; I got an error message and assumed the comment hadn’t been posted…

By: j-marie

j-marie — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:22:27 +0000

…most people don’t have a very clear idea of what actually happened during those years I’m not sure if would agree… at least not for myself. Informed people today (in the West) can’t have much excuse for ignorance about the Shoah. The facts are generally available; the problem is how to assimilate the vastness of the catastrophe on a personal level. Before reading your post, I had happened across the following image, coincidentally of Hungarian Jews: http://yadvashem.org/exhibitions/museums/histmuseum/photo3.html One tries to imagine who they were. A mother and her children? What had they already endured to get to this point? Did they (or at least the mother) know what awaited them? Was she resigned to their fate and try to make it as quick and painless as was possible under the circumstances, or did she struggle to protect them to the end? And which fate (in hindsight) was preferable? What terrible questions!

By: j-marie

j-marie — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:22:16 +0000

By: eszter

eszter — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:05:15 +0000

Thank you for the kind comments, I will past them on to my father. I’m going to read Albert’s comment not as something offensive to this writing, but a comment on how people do (or do not) deal with the Holocaust nowadays. People think they know what it was about and no longer care to learn more about it. But I think if someone takes just a few moments to read passages like this, it’s impossible to be “fatigued” by it. As the numerous contemporary misinformed references to the Holocaust suggest, most people don’t have a very clear idea of what actually happened during those years. I think that’s the sad and scary part.

By: J-Marie

J-Marie — Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:47:30 +0000

Holocaust fatigue? What an ugly phrase! If you have nothing cordial to say… Personally I was immensely moved. Thank-you, Eszter.