Comments on: 68 dead in Basra blasts http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Fri, 25 May 2012 20:34:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Dave F http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25452 Dave F Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:05:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25452 I'm sure it's an open question which group of murderers it was, but "hallmarks of al-Qaeda" is how the British spokesman put it. That isn't inaccurate. Of course, al-Qaeda has become a kind of grab bag shorthand for "Islamist militant groups" but still. One thesis I do doubt is the Grauniad's. Their correspondents conclude this must be Sunni Muslims seeking "revenge" on the US for its 'brutal" tactics in Fallujah. So they go to Basra, controlled by the British, and blow up Iraqi schookids? Saddamites are also being pointed at, but I doubt the secular Baathists have much enthusiasm for volunteering as suicide bombers tpo bring back the old days. I’m sure it’s an open question which group of murderers it was, but “hallmarks of al-Qaeda” is how the British spokesman put it. That isn’t inaccurate. Of course, al-Qaeda has become a kind of grab bag shorthand for “Islamist militant groups” but still. One thesis I do doubt is the Grauniad’s. Their correspondents conclude this must be Sunni Muslims seeking “revenge” on the US for its ‘brutal” tactics in Fallujah. So they go to Basra, controlled by the British, and blow up Iraqi schookids? Saddamites are also being pointed at, but I doubt the secular Baathists have much enthusiasm for volunteering as suicide bombers tpo bring back the old days.

]]> By: Gibbon http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25451 Gibbon Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:41:20 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25451 MSG The idea that the US is planning on taking over Jordan is nutz. First off there is nothing there worth bothering about anyway you look at it. Second of all the countries in the region it's arguably the best actor in terms of relations with it's neighbors. In contrast Iraq was the worst. Third (or maybe this should be first) the US public wouldn't stand for it. This point is really overlooked by a lot of people. War or no war if the public doesn't like it, they'll throw out the bastards (politicians). In contrast most people in the US saw the war in Iraq as finishing unfinished business. Fourth the rest of the world wouldn't stand for it. If you think that the US tossing it's weight around in Iraq makes people jumpy, you can imagine what invading a truely innocent country would do. Fifth the US can't afford it. War cost money, and in the US money is always tight. Basically the US can afford to go to war like this once a generation. Sixth war in Jordan would stretch US forces way too thin. Right now the US simply doesn't have the equipment or manpower to handle another war except under desperate conditions. MSG The idea that the US is planning on taking over Jordan is nutz. First off there is nothing there worth bothering about anyway you look at it. Second of all the countries in the region it’s arguably the best actor in terms of relations with it’s neighbors. In contrast Iraq was the worst. Third (or maybe this should be first) the US public wouldn’t stand for it. This point is really overlooked by a lot of people. War or no war if the public doesn’t like it, they’ll throw out the bastards (politicians). In contrast most people in the US saw the war in Iraq as finishing unfinished business. Fourth the rest of the world wouldn’t stand for it. If you think that the US tossing it’s weight around in Iraq makes people jumpy, you can imagine what invading a truely innocent country would do. Fifth the US can’t afford it. War cost money, and in the US money is always tight. Basically the US can afford to go to war like this once a generation. Sixth war in Jordan would stretch US forces way too thin. Right now the US simply doesn’t have the equipment or manpower to handle another war except under desperate conditions.

]]> By: andrew http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25450 andrew Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:13:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25450 First of all, holy crap. Then, <i>US officials believe al-Qaida linked Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was behind the...attacks</i> Could be true an'all, but whenever an unverifiable fact fortuitiously coincides with the favored US narrative, I am suspicious. (To the extent that a home-grown insurgent might reflect poorly on US security-keeping ability, and the intensity of indiginous resistence to US plans). <i>Basra’s governor also blamed Osama bin Laden</i>. I heard the governor (in great English) say exactly what the US representative said. "They hate our freedom, the thugs want to derail the democratic process"... I don't know what to believe these days. First of all, holy crap. Then, US officials believe al-Qaida linked Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was behind the…attacks Could be true an’all, but whenever an unverifiable fact fortuitiously coincides with the favored US narrative, I am suspicious. (To the extent that a home-grown insurgent might reflect poorly on US security-keeping ability, and the intensity of indiginous resistence to US plans). Basra’s governor also blamed Osama bin Laden. I heard the governor (in great English) say exactly what the US representative said. “They hate our freedom, the thugs want to derail the democratic process”… I don’t know what to believe these days.

]]> By: bull http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25449 bull Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:40:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25449 Azrez, What msg means is that the U.S. is cooking up a pretext to invade Jordan. msg is a regular cornucopia of conspiracy theories. Azrez, What msg means is that the U.S. is cooking up a pretext to invade Jordan. msg is a regular cornucopia of conspiracy theories.

]]> By: msg http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25448 msg Thu, 22 Apr 2004 04:30:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25448 Azrez- I think King Abdullah's the bravest public figure in the Middle East. Azrez- I think King Abdullah’s the bravest public figure in the Middle East.

]]> By: AzRez http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25447 AzRez Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:48:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25447 MSG - Hmm. This American believes that Bush received a well-earned "snub" from Abdullah. Are you forgetting that almost half the population of Jordan is of Palestinian origin? How in the world could you expect him to show up for photo ops at the White House when Bush made the outrageous agreement with Sharon last week and the new head of Hamas was just killed? Whatever can you mean by, "It's important that it seem appropriate that it be taken over." MSG - Hmm. This American believes that Bush received a well-earned “snub” from Abdullah. Are you forgetting that almost half the population of Jordan is of Palestinian origin? How in the world could you expect him to show up for photo ops at the White House when Bush made the outrageous agreement with Sharon last week and the new head of Hamas was just killed? Whatever can you mean by, “It’s important that it seem appropriate that it be taken over.”

]]> By: msg http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25446 msg Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:06:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25446 bull- Answering your questions as written, no, I don't "suggest that al Quaeda is freedom-loving". But then I don't think something as vague as "freedom", or the love of it, is at issue here. Whether or not al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian is less important in the long run than King Abdullah's snubbing the President and abruptly leaving the US earlier this week. The cause of that will become more and more obvious now. Jordan is a strategically situated, small nation. It's important that it seem appropriate that it be taken over. A link to al Qaeda is the current carte blanche for invasion. The levels of intrigue at work in Iraq now, and on the world stage generally, are beyond the ability of most of us to comprehend while they're happening. Certainly they are for me, and my purpose in writing is to suggest they are for most people as well; especially those whose initial reaction to the horror is to follow the instructions of proven liars and their sycophants. Too often now these documents too handily show up. This is a form of demonic Barnumism, wherein the underestimation of the intelligence of the American public is being relied on to carry the day. The end-game appears to be taking shape. It seems important that people not allow themselves to become paralyzed with fear, or shocked into credulity. bull- Answering your questions as written, no, I don’t “suggest that al Quaeda is freedom-loving”. But then I don’t think something as vague as “freedom”, or the love of it, is at issue here. Whether or not al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian is less important in the long run than King Abdullah’s snubbing the President and abruptly leaving the US earlier this week. The cause of that will become more and more obvious now. Jordan is a strategically situated, small nation. It’s important that it seem appropriate that it be taken over. A link to al Qaeda is the current carte blanche for invasion. The levels of intrigue at work in Iraq now, and on the world stage generally, are beyond the ability of most of us to comprehend while they’re happening. Certainly they are for me, and my purpose in writing is to suggest they are for most people as well; especially those whose initial reaction to the horror is to follow the instructions of proven liars and their sycophants. Too often now these documents too handily show up. This is a form of demonic Barnumism, wherein the underestimation of the intelligence of the American public is being relied on to carry the day. The end-game appears to be taking shape. It seems important that people not allow themselves to become paralyzed with fear, or shocked into credulity.

]]> By: David W. http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25445 David W. Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:43:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25445 <i>US officials believe al-Qaida linked Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was behind the Irbil, Baghdad and Kerbala attacks. They claim an intercepted letter revealed a strategy to foment civil war between Sunni and Shia Muslims to make the country ungovernable.</i> (sniff... sniff...) Snowball! He has been here! I can smell him distinctly! US officials believe al-Qaida linked Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was behind the Irbil, Baghdad and Kerbala attacks. They claim an intercepted letter revealed a strategy to foment civil war between Sunni and Shia Muslims to make the country ungovernable. (sniff… sniff…) Snowball! He has been here! I can smell him distinctly!

]]> By: Bull http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25444 Bull Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:29:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25444 So, msg, do you suggest that Al Quaeda is freedom loving and that al-Zarqawi is not from Jordan? And who do you suppose blew up the bus? So, msg, do you suggest that Al Quaeda is freedom loving and that al-Zarqawi is not from Jordan? And who do you suppose blew up the bus?

]]> By: Braddock http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25443 Braddock Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:43:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25443 Truly horrible. The last time there was a suicide bomb in Basra, the angry crowd grabbed a Wahabbi bystander and tore him to shreds. He turned out to be innocent of the bombing, but the incident was revealing. The campaign by Zarqawi to foment civil war in Iraq continues apace. Truly horrible. The last time there was a suicide bomb in Basra, the angry crowd grabbed a Wahabbi bystander and tore him to shreds. He turned out to be innocent of the bombing, but the incident was revealing. The campaign by Zarqawi to foment civil war in Iraq continues apace.

]]> By: msg http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25442 msg Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:17:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25442 Forgiveness will soon be in very short supply all round. And horror in abundance. - For some, for a while, the safest thing to do is to adopt immediately whatever stories and explanations the government and its media offer.<blockquote>This is the work of freedom-hating al Qaida, and there's a link to suspect Jordan. So when it comes time for Jordan to fall, we'll understand that it was necessary. This is a war after all.</blockquote> It will help to repeat this information verbatim four or five times. Don't worry about inflection or emphases, that will come. Forgiveness will soon be in very short supply all round. And horror in abundance. – For some, for a while, the safest thing to do is to adopt immediately whatever stories and explanations the government and its media offer.
This is the work of freedom-hating al Qaida, and there’s a link to suspect Jordan. So when it comes time for Jordan to fall, we’ll understand that it was necessary. This is a war after all.
It will help to repeat this information verbatim four or five times. Don’t worry about inflection or emphases, that will come.

]]> By: Jimmy Doyle http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25441 Jimmy Doyle Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:14:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25441 Where Ted sees something unforgivably horrible, Push sees an opportunity to make a snide, tendentious and badly-expressed point. Nice going. (I think he/she meant "if only," by the way, not "only if.") Where Ted sees something unforgivably horrible, Push sees an opportunity to make a snide, tendentious and badly-expressed point. Nice going. (I think he/she meant “if only,” by the way, not “only if.”)

]]> By: push http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25440 push Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:45:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25440 The brits are clearly handling their areas better than the yanks. not. So much for the spin put out that only if the Brits were in control, only if Bremer listened to them more, it would all be ok. The brits are clearly handling their areas better than the yanks. not. So much for the spin put out that only if the Brits were in control, only if Bremer listened to them more, it would all be ok.

]]> By: John Byrne http://crookedtimber.org/2004/04/21/68-dead-in-basra-blasts/comment-page-1/#comment-25439 John Byrne Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:26:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1420#comment-25439 Hey. Great blog! I wanted to post this on here instead of email it becase, 1) there are so many contributors, and 2) because I think it would be of broad interested to your readers and your contributors, given your politics! Enjoy! I just wanted to alert you to a freshly-minted liberal media site you might enjoy/link to called The Raw Story, http://www.rawstory.com, which culls and composes progressive news, arts and business reporting from around the world. Similar to Buzzflash, but with a much more user-friendly design and updated far more frequently. But what we say doesn?t matter -- check us out and decide for yourself. Hey. Great blog! I wanted to post this on here instead of email it becase, 1) there are so many contributors, and 2) because I think it would be of broad interested to your readers and your contributors, given your politics! Enjoy! I just wanted to alert you to a freshly-minted liberal media site you might enjoy/link to called The Raw Story, http://www.rawstory.com, which culls and composes progressive news, arts and business reporting from around the world. Similar to Buzzflash, but with a much more user-friendly design and updated far more frequently. But what we say doesn?t matter—check us out and decide for yourself.

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