Comments on: Mayday

By: John Quiggin

John Quiggin — Sun, 02 May 2004 08:31:32 +0000

marksteen – link fixed now

By: John Quiggin

John Quiggin — Sun, 02 May 2004 07:51:40 +0000

james, I realise my post wasn’t clear, but I agree that the lifting of the siege was a better outcome than its continuation, or an all-out assault. sebastian, I can’t say i’m thrilled by the prospect of an early (within months) withdrawal of US troops, but it’s beginning to look like there will be no better option.

By: Sebastian Holsclaw

Sebastian Holsclaw — Sun, 02 May 2004 00:39:24 +0000

If this led to the withdrawl of US troops, shouldn’t you be thrilled?

By: marksteen

marksteen — Sat, 01 May 2004 23:56:39 +0000

JQ, Your penultimate link is the same as the last, surely a mistake..plus, I’d like to see the correct links so I can see the poll data.

By: james

james — Sat, 01 May 2004 23:41:09 +0000

John, You mention that a majority of Iraqis want the US to leave “immediately” – but omit to mention the not unsignificant fact that this is taken to mean “a few months”. Also the same poll shows a majority believe a (truly) immediate withdrawal would diminish stability. Also “[t]he abandonment of the siege of Fallujah, with none of the US objectives achieved” strikes me as a bit oddly put, given that I imagine you wouldn’t have been entirely happy had what was necesary for “US objecitves” to be achieved been done. Personally I’m a bit more uncomfortable with the “siege” itself than with its apparent end. At any rate I think its at least an open question as to which has been more conducive to a positive outcome in Iraq.

By: Davis X. Machina

Davis X. Machina — Sat, 01 May 2004 21:32:02 +0000

Oh, absolutely, roger. It will be a far better, and probably more peaceful, day, when the US, and the folks who run it, just ‘fess up and admit it: “We’re just this nation-state, you know”. American action abroad seems mostly of wanting or needing to do X, realizing that X is at first glance going to be regrettable, saying “But this is America! We’re different!” and then going and doing something regrettable anyways. Hans J. Morgethau must be positively spinning in his grave.

By: Martin Wisse

Martin Wisse — Sat, 01 May 2004 20:24:27 +0000

I think and have argued on my blog that having US troops in Iraq, whether or not under UN leadership, is worse than having them withdrawn, because the US military is not up to the task of fighting a guerilla war. In a worst case scenario when the US leaves Iraq, we get a full blown civil war; but in the worst case scenario when they don’t, we have the same thing, with the US military caught in the middle.

By: roger

roger — Sat, 01 May 2004 19:12:18 +0000

Davis, I think you are right. But I wonder whether you think that being right, here, shows the U.S. to be doing something immoral. Actually, I think it shows that the U.S. is operating as a nation. The whole problem, to my mind, with the occupation is that the pro-war camp has painted a picture of the U.S. as a moral force. As a moral force, the U.S. would have collapsed long ago. The U.S. represents its state interests. Now, those interests are themselves up for grabs among us, but the idea that we somehow magically represent Iraq’s interests is, I think, by definition wrong. Sure, our interests should be tempered by a cosmopolitan awareness of the rules of justice. We should all cross our hearts and pledge allegiance to the Critique of Practical Reason. The same principal holds for the nation of Iraq. That the U.S. could have a self interest in helping create an Iraq that necessarily follows its own self interest is, to paraphrase St. Paul, a stumbling block to the neo-cons and a scandal to the Wilsonian liberals. Nevertheless, I think it is true. To move from Kant to Hegel—our statecraft, here, has to be based on concretely accepting the autonomy of the other. Otherwise we will be caught in endless Master-Slave games—the true quagmire. If, in fact, the U.S. were more overt about its interests in Iraq, we could have a discussion in this country of just what those interests are. Personally, I don’t think those interests are well represented by the visions of the Defense Department’s Pumphouse gang—the Wolfowitzes, Rumsfelds, and such. Unfortunately, such discussions are almost immediately diverted by the moralistic rhetoric that Americans traditionally love to indulge in, and that amused and infuriated Dickens a century and a half ago.

By: scoooby

scoooby — Sat, 01 May 2004 08:06:51 +0000

The rape photos are fake…sorry.

By: scoooby

scoooby — Sat, 01 May 2004 06:42:05 +0000

I didn’t realize that United States soldiers were gang raping women: The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos

By: Davis X. Machina

Davis X. Machina — Sat, 01 May 2004 06:04:14 +0000

oops….

By: Davis X. Machina

Davis X. Machina — Sat, 01 May 2004 06:02:32 +0000

Roger, I’m not so sure that a rapid pullout of US forces would be anywhere near as good for Iraq as you seem to think… Ah, but the decision on whether there is a rapid pullout, or any pullout, or US forces will be driven by whether the decision is good for the US, not wheter it is good for Iraq. They are, after all, US forces. And altruistic concern for the material well-being or physical safety of far-away people has not been a hallmark of the present US government. Some fine day we’ll hit the magic BON (Bug-Out Number) with our casulaties, and that will be that.

By: Davis X. Machina

Davis X. Machina — Sat, 01 May 2004 06:00:37 +0000

By: Ben Benny

Ben Benny — Sat, 01 May 2004 04:59:44 +0000

Roger, I’m not so sure that a rapid pullout of US forces would be anywhere near as good for Iraq as you seem to think. Neither am I convinced that Iraq groping towards democracy on its own would be a particularly pleasant situation for Iraqis. Transitions from dictatorships to democracy tend to be very dangerous times. With foreign forces removed, it’s not entirely unlikely that existing Iraqi factions would set about fighting amongst themselves. If they did there’s no certainty that they’d ever settle down this decade. I suppose it’s possible that all Iraq is united towards the purpose of democracy and self-rule, and that a US withdrawal would result in a peaceful establishment of enlightened government, but the possibility that Iraq is another vicious civil war or regular old bloody free-for-all waiting for a chance to erupt should also be considered. But it might not happen.

By: asfd

asfd — Sat, 01 May 2004 03:08:11 +0000

er, how can he be a partisan if, um, he’s Australian?