Comments on: The Day After Tomorrow http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Fri, 25 May 2012 23:03:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Tom http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28841 Tom Fri, 21 May 2004 19:51:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28841 Lance wrote: "The world is heating up. This is being caused by the burning of petroleum distillates in automobiles." On a technical point, over half the anthropogenic sources of CO2 is solid fuels, not liquid. Oil products account for about 33%, with 15% natural gas, and the remainder being gas flaring & cement production. Lance wrote: “The world is heating up. This is being caused by the burning of petroleum distillates in automobiles.” On a technical point, over half the anthropogenic sources of CO2 is solid fuels, not liquid. Oil products account for about 33%, with 15% natural gas, and the remainder being gas flaring & cement production.

]]> By: Tom http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28840 Tom Fri, 21 May 2004 19:48:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28840 "On the “science” of global warming, check, http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/GW-Aliens-Crichton.html" Why? Crichton's an MD, not a climatologist. His opinion on the science behind global warming only slightly more worthy than A. Randomcitizen walking down the street, or some random celebrity. Why do you even *think* this is a scientific article? Try Jones & Mann's recent article on Paleoclimate over the past 2,000 years instead, from Reviews of Geophysics: ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub/mann/JonesMannROG04.pdf “On the “science” of global warming, check, http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/GW-Aliens-Crichton.html” Why? Crichton’s an MD, not a climatologist. His opinion on the science behind global warming only slightly more worthy than A. Randomcitizen walking down the street, or some random celebrity. Why do you even think this is a scientific article? Try Jones & Mann’s recent article on Paleoclimate over the past 2,000 years instead, from Reviews of Geophysics: ftp://holocene.evsc.virginia.edu/pub/mann/JonesMannROG04.pdf

]]> By: Keith http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28839 Keith Thu, 20 May 2004 17:19:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28839 My problem with the movie isn't so much the silly science, the hapless melodrama or the scarmongering, but that it's based on a <a href="http://tinyurl.com/27p7q">book by Whitley Strieber</a>, a man prone to believing his own fiction (and who seems to have developed the bothersome ability to infect others with his incredulity). My problem with the movie isn’t so much the silly science, the hapless melodrama or the scarmongering, but that it’s based on a book by Whitley Strieber, a man prone to believing his own fiction (and who seems to have developed the bothersome ability to infect others with his incredulity).

]]> By: megapotamus http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28838 megapotamus Thu, 20 May 2004 14:27:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28838 "Demanding that at one and the same time scientific proof be impeccably presented and accessible to the unscientific layman is absurd, and obviously obstructionist." Ha ha ha. On the "science" of global warming, check, http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/GW-Aliens-Crichton.html Or don't. Frankly, I'm with Alaska Jack, you idiots are beyond all aid. What a farce. “Demanding that at one and the same time scientific proof be impeccably presented and accessible to the unscientific layman is absurd, and obviously obstructionist.” Ha ha ha. On the “science” of global warming, check, http://www.sepp.org/NewSEPP/GW-Aliens-Crichton.html Or don’t. Frankly, I’m with Alaska Jack, you idiots are beyond all aid. What a farce.

]]> By: Alaska Jack http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28837 Alaska Jack Thu, 20 May 2004 02:26:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28837 "Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!" Good advice, Granny. Thanks. - AJ “Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!” Good advice, Granny. Thanks. – AJ

]]> By: Lance Boyle http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28836 Lance Boyle Wed, 19 May 2004 22:56:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28836 Alaska Jack- I favor the sting of wit and poetic logic over insult and calumny, always. I hesitated before posting what even then seemed scurrilous and inelegant. But I meant it, and I mean it. I'm sick and very tired, beyond bearing or caring, of these grinning fools who sneer at what, even if it's mistaken, even if all the evidence mounting daily is fabricated and the world is yet spinning merrily along all edenlike and innocent, is still heartfelt concern that we have destroyed the only home we have. I'm outraged that this is humorous to anyone. And it makes me violent. - Just in case you decide to rebut the argument itself, let me restate it. The world is heating up. This is being caused by the burning of petroleum distillates in automobiles. The two industries involved, auto and oil, are more powerful than any government or military on the planet. The men who ride these industries owe their fortunes and their power to the same processes that are destroying us. They have covered up the evidence for as long as they were able. They still essentially own the public consciousness of the American public. The reduction of concerned scientists and laymen, from the beginning, to "environmentalists" and other derogatory names, is at best collaboration and more often willing co-operation. The public is child-like in its undevelopment; ridiculing people who try to speak sincerely to that child-like consciousness is disgusting. Demanding that at one and the same time scientific proof be impeccably presented and accessible to the unscientific layman is absurd, and obviously obstructionist. The real dynamic here is deeply profane. Alaska Jack- I favor the sting of wit and poetic logic over insult and calumny, always. I hesitated before posting what even then seemed scurrilous and inelegant. But I meant it, and I mean it. I’m sick and very tired, beyond bearing or caring, of these grinning fools who sneer at what, even if it’s mistaken, even if all the evidence mounting daily is fabricated and the world is yet spinning merrily along all edenlike and innocent, is still heartfelt concern that we have destroyed the only home we have. I’m outraged that this is humorous to anyone. And it makes me violent. – Just in case you decide to rebut the argument itself, let me restate it. The world is heating up. This is being caused by the burning of petroleum distillates in automobiles. The two industries involved, auto and oil, are more powerful than any government or military on the planet. The men who ride these industries owe their fortunes and their power to the same processes that are destroying us. They have covered up the evidence for as long as they were able. They still essentially own the public consciousness of the American public. The reduction of concerned scientists and laymen, from the beginning, to “environmentalists” and other derogatory names, is at best collaboration and more often willing co-operation. The public is child-like in its undevelopment; ridiculing people who try to speak sincerely to that child-like consciousness is disgusting. Demanding that at one and the same time scientific proof be impeccably presented and accessible to the unscientific layman is absurd, and obviously obstructionist. The real dynamic here is deeply profane.

]]> By: GrannyG http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28835 GrannyG Wed, 19 May 2004 22:15:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28835 A. Jack: Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya! A. Jack: Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!

]]> By: Alaska Jack http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28834 Alaska Jack Wed, 19 May 2004 21:58:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28834 Quothe Lance: ====== " ... windbags like yourself can dominate conversations, because the other side is mostly numb with shock. I’ll bet you like arguing with teenagers too, don’t you? And just ripping their idealistic nonsense all to shreds. Makes you feel like a man doesn’t it? Ultimately there’s nothing to your position but well-fed cowardice, like all the other smug morons who spew this crap, swaggering pussies with a backup of hired thugs, craven media, and police-state technology." ====== Well played, Sir! I find myself unable to match your keen insight, steel-trap logic, or rapier-like wit. Now pardon me, for I must slink back to my underground lair, lick my wounds and ponder the error of my ways. - Alaska Jack Quothe Lance: == ” … windbags like yourself can dominate conversations, because the other side is mostly numb with shock. I’ll bet you like arguing with teenagers too, don’t you? And just ripping their idealistic nonsense all to shreds. Makes you feel like a man doesn’t it? Ultimately there’s nothing to your position but well-fed cowardice, like all the other smug morons who spew this crap, swaggering pussies with a backup of hired thugs, craven media, and police-state technology.” == Well played, Sir! I find myself unable to match your keen insight, steel-trap logic, or rapier-like wit. Now pardon me, for I must slink back to my underground lair, lick my wounds and ponder the error of my ways. – Alaska Jack

]]> By: Lance Boyle http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28833 Lance Boyle Wed, 19 May 2004 19:21:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28833 <blockquote><i>A British explorer who was forced to abandon his quest to trek solo across the North Pole from Russia to Canada says global warming has melted so much of the polar ice cap he doubts anyone will be able to accomplish the feat. Briton Ben Saunders, 26, who reached the Pole last Tuesday, had to be rescued Friday night about 50 kilometres on the Canadian side when open water made it impossible for him to continue the journey. He was airlifted to Ottawa Saturday night. "The weather this year was the warmest since they began keeping records," Mr. Saunders said yesterday. "And the sea ice coverage in the Arctic last year was the least ever, according to NASA. They haven't calculated it yet for this year, but we expect the sea ice coverage to be even lower."</i></blockquote> Carrie Kristal-Schroder <a href="http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=bab7f0d6-fa4b-4e2e-8708-32349ac64617">The Ottawa Citizen</a> May 17, 2004<br /><br />
A British explorer who was forced to abandon his quest to trek solo across the North Pole from Russia to Canada says global warming has melted so much of the polar ice cap he doubts anyone will be able to accomplish the feat. Briton Ben Saunders, 26, who reached the Pole last Tuesday, had to be rescued Friday night about 50 kilometres on the Canadian side when open water made it impossible for him to continue the journey. He was airlifted to Ottawa Saturday night. “The weather this year was the warmest since they began keeping records,” Mr. Saunders said yesterday. “And the sea ice coverage in the Arctic last year was the least ever, according to NASA. They haven’t calculated it yet for this year, but we expect the sea ice coverage to be even lower.”
Carrie Kristal-Schroder The Ottawa Citizen May 17, 2004

]]> By: Tom http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28832 Tom Wed, 19 May 2004 18:49:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28832 Dan wrote: "Schneider’s curious intentions aside, I assume most of us can agree that at least some environmental activists tend to exaggerate environmental dangers (for whatever reason), just as some environmental skeptics tend to downplay those dangers (for their own reasons)." This is noncontroversial. I wouldn't use PIRG's information to wipe my bum with, for instance. I think the "second wave" of environmental movements in the 1970s & 1980s were inspired by truly acute environmental diasters - DDT, PCBs, Bhopal, Exxon Valdez, rivers catching fire. This, I think, means that there's a need for a "crisis" rooted in their origins. Likewise the Global Climate Coalition is breathtaking in its mendacity. "As for selective quoting: quoting is, er, selective." So don't castigate Schneider for acknowledging that the media will butcher the complex science in the desire to get a sexy story, when you in turn butcher a quote to make a sexier blog argument. That log in your eye must be painful; you should see an opthamologist). Detached observer wrote: "A plain reading of the Schneider quote — in the original version that you cite — seems to suggest to me — and I think most observers — although this is really for those reading this debate to say — that lying for the cause of the environment is right." I see. That's why he wrote: “On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but - which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts." and: "Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both." Detached observer continues: "Schneider after all, counsels scientists to hide any doubts they have about the veracity of the theories and present them as absolute, true statements." That's not how he concludes. Dan wrote: “Schneider’s curious intentions aside, I assume most of us can agree that at least some environmental activists tend to exaggerate environmental dangers (for whatever reason), just as some environmental skeptics tend to downplay those dangers (for their own reasons).” This is noncontroversial. I wouldn’t use PIRG’s information to wipe my bum with, for instance. I think the “second wave” of environmental movements in the 1970s & 1980s were inspired by truly acute environmental diasters – DDT, PCBs, Bhopal, Exxon Valdez, rivers catching fire. This, I think, means that there’s a need for a “crisis” rooted in their origins. Likewise the Global Climate Coalition is breathtaking in its mendacity. “As for selective quoting: quoting is, er, selective.” So don’t castigate Schneider for acknowledging that the media will butcher the complex science in the desire to get a sexy story, when you in turn butcher a quote to make a sexier blog argument. That log in your eye must be painful; you should see an opthamologist). Detached observer wrote: “A plain reading of the Schneider quote — in the original version that you cite — seems to suggest to me — and I think most observers — although this is really for those reading this debate to say — that lying for the cause of the environment is right.” I see. That’s why he wrote: “On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but – which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts.” and: “Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.” Detached observer continues: “Schneider after all, counsels scientists to hide any doubts they have about the veracity of the theories and present them as absolute, true statements.” That’s not how he concludes.

]]> By: W. Kiernan http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28831 W. Kiernan Wed, 19 May 2004 16:44:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28831 God I'm glad you wrote this! This very day I'm going to stop trying to live my life according to the gospel of <I>Eraserhead.</I> God I’m glad you wrote this! This very day I’m going to stop trying to live my life according to the gospel of Eraserhead.

]]> By: Richard Bellamy http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28830 Richard Bellamy Wed, 19 May 2004 15:53:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28830 I am reminded of an old Environmental Policy class I took where the professor was warning against looking at studies that show that large doses of radiation is short durations lead to damaging health effects and extrapolating to real world situations where there will be exposure to much smaller doses of radiation for longer periods of time. "Because we all know what happens when you are exposed to massive doses of radiation," he said. The whole class answered at once, "Yeah. You turn into a Superhero." I am reminded of an old Environmental Policy class I took where the professor was warning against looking at studies that show that large doses of radiation is short durations lead to damaging health effects and extrapolating to real world situations where there will be exposure to much smaller doses of radiation for longer periods of time. “Because we all know what happens when you are exposed to massive doses of radiation,” he said. The whole class answered at once, “Yeah. You turn into a Superhero.”

]]> By: megapotamus http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28829 megapotamus Wed, 19 May 2004 13:55:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28829 "What’s with all the trolls on Crooked Timber? Who sends them here? The arrogant kind, as well." Gee, I see plenty of arrogance here... from the surface inhabitants far more than from the bridge-dwellers. What sends me here is a vain attempt to find some rational justification for the Leftist viewpoint. Believe it or not, Crooked Timber has a rep for being a reasoned, civil forum. At least relative to Indymedia, DU, Atrios, Kos... oh geez, quite a long list. But that ain't saying much, natch. If I needed another good reason to be skeptical of you crypto-socialists, the moronic response to Dan's well sourced post above was a balm. Tom's deliberate, bizarro-world reading of the Schneider quotes demonstrates the vaporous, oportunistic attitude of the Left to, well, let's call it REALITY. Sincerely, Troll A #1. “What’s with all the trolls on Crooked Timber? Who sends them here? The arrogant kind, as well.” Gee, I see plenty of arrogance here… from the surface inhabitants far more than from the bridge-dwellers. What sends me here is a vain attempt to find some rational justification for the Leftist viewpoint. Believe it or not, Crooked Timber has a rep for being a reasoned, civil forum. At least relative to Indymedia, DU, Atrios, Kos… oh geez, quite a long list. But that ain’t saying much, natch. If I needed another good reason to be skeptical of you crypto-socialists, the moronic response to Dan’s well sourced post above was a balm. Tom’s deliberate, bizarro-world reading of the Schneider quotes demonstrates the vaporous, oportunistic attitude of the Left to, well, let’s call it REALITY. Sincerely, Troll A #1.

]]> By: Jeff Lawson http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28828 Jeff Lawson Wed, 19 May 2004 11:53:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28828 I'd wear a short skirt, if it'd attract a gal. I'm not proud :-P I’d wear a short skirt, if it’d attract a gal. I’m not proud :-P

]]> By: Matthew http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/18/the-day-after-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-28827 Matthew Wed, 19 May 2004 10:25:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1577#comment-28827 What's with all the trolls on Crooked Timber? Who sends them here? The arrogant kind, as well. What’s with all the trolls on Crooked Timber? Who sends them here? The arrogant kind, as well.

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