Comments on: All gone to look for America … http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:43:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Antoni Jaume http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29531 Antoni Jaume Tue, 25 May 2004 18:39:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29531 mr. Bill Carone, I've looked at Chris Bertram post, and it was not a matter of opinion, but of insult. DSW mr. Bill Carone, I’ve looked at Chris Bertram post, and it was not a matter of opinion, but of insult. DSW

]]> By: J Edgar http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29530 J Edgar Tue, 25 May 2004 17:23:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29530 <i>Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan?</i. I don't 'really' trust Volokh. He has some reliable stuff about injustices by the left, but he's always willing to throw in a case that is going to lead nowhere, knowing (at least must have seen from experience), that some fighting keyboarder will take the bait and run with it. Then when the item turns out false or faulty, you may hear it on Volokh's site, but not from his sycophants. It's like a guy who says the single word "fire" in a crowded theater, but he's not the guy who shouts "FIRE!" in that theater. You needn't trust either one. On the other hand, little Roy Cohn can be counted on to conveniently receive an anonymous e-mail from a "professional firefighter" who knows there was a fire but doesn't say where, so therefore it is in the crowded theater. I've given up on both. Also Den Beste. Even though he is an awesome typist, reading that guy is bringing down the level of comments here. Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan?

]]> By: Bill Carone http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29529 Bill Carone Tue, 25 May 2004 15:17:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29529 Dsquared, Some time ago, right after the Spanish elections, Chris Bertram of CT said that if a Spanish citizen heard someone saying that the Spanish electorate was intimidated by the terrorists into voting differently, then Chris would perfectly understand if the Spanish citizen punched them out. It wouldn't be right, but Chris would completely understand. According to your logic, Chris supports the idea of assaulting people who express differing opinions, or at least "it’s not obvious he’d object over much if they started doing it." Crooked Timber motto: it's a bad post, but its worthy of us! Dsquared, Some time ago, right after the Spanish elections, Chris Bertram of CT said that if a Spanish citizen heard someone saying that the Spanish electorate was intimidated by the terrorists into voting differently, then Chris would perfectly understand if the Spanish citizen punched them out. It wouldn’t be right, but Chris would completely understand. According to your logic, Chris supports the idea of assaulting people who express differing opinions, or at least “it’s not obvious he’d object over much if they started doing it.” Crooked Timber motto: it’s a bad post, but its worthy of us!

]]> By: Nat Whilk http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29528 Nat Whilk Tue, 25 May 2004 14:29:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29528 Warbaby wrote: "<i>Start shooting protesters and you get an armed peace movement…</i>" Yikes! Yabonn, did you see that ominous ellipsis? Warbaby wrote: “Start shooting protesters and you get an armed peace movement…” Yikes! Yabonn, did you see that ominous ellipsis?

]]> By: Mrs Tilton http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29527 Mrs Tilton Tue, 25 May 2004 08:56:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29527 <i>Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan?</i> In a word, yes. There's a great deal that Eugene Volokh says that I disagree with. (And my comments here are limited to him; there are some co-conspirators I seldom read and about whom I have no opinion one way or the other) Indeed, except on a few points, I'd say his basic worldview and mine disagree. But, whatever about his conclusions, he tries to base them on fact; tries to reach them by reasoning; and doesn't hesitate to examine his thought in the light of others'. Compare that with, say, Glenn Reynolds. Unlike him, Volokh isn't much of a one for mau-mauing, economy with the truth or links to things that don't say anything near what he claims they say. Volokh and Reynolds might be on the same side of the spectrum, roughly speaking, but one of them places a premium on intellectual honesty and the other doesn't. I'm happy to read Volokh every day, much as I disagree with him. But life's too short to waste time with Reynolds. Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan? In a word, yes. There’s a great deal that Eugene Volokh says that I disagree with. (And my comments here are limited to him; there are some co-conspirators I seldom read and about whom I have no opinion one way or the other) Indeed, except on a few points, I’d say his basic worldview and mine disagree. But, whatever about his conclusions, he tries to base them on fact; tries to reach them by reasoning; and doesn’t hesitate to examine his thought in the light of others’. Compare that with, say, Glenn Reynolds. Unlike him, Volokh isn’t much of a one for mau-mauing, economy with the truth or links to things that don’t say anything near what he claims they say. Volokh and Reynolds might be on the same side of the spectrum, roughly speaking, but one of them places a premium on intellectual honesty and the other doesn’t. I’m happy to read Volokh every day, much as I disagree with him. But life’s too short to waste time with Reynolds.

]]> By: pepi http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29526 pepi Tue, 25 May 2004 07:50:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29526 Yes, Edroso's definitely the best response. I especially like the "you tell me" answer. I would just add this: how in hell did Reynolds get to be a LAW professor?? Can anybody explain? Yes, Edroso’s definitely the best response. I especially like the “you tell me” answer. I would just add this: how in hell did Reynolds get to be a LAW professor?? Can anybody explain?

]]> By: Anarch http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29525 Anarch Tue, 25 May 2004 06:58:31 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29525 Best response to Reynolds' post was from Roy Edroso of <a href="http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2004_05_16_alicublog_archive.html#108493922919164946">alicublog</a>. Best response to Reynolds’ post was from Roy Edroso of alicublog.

]]> By: Warbaby http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29524 Warbaby Tue, 25 May 2004 05:56:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29524 Start shooting protesters and you get an armed peace movement... After Kent State the U.S. experienced a peak of 30 domestic bombings a day. This is the real danger -- that right-wing violence will engender wide-scale civil disorder. Nearly every breakdown of society starts with sanctioned violence putting people in the position where they have no choice but to flee or fight. Start shooting protesters and you get an armed peace movement… After Kent State the U.S. experienced a peak of 30 domestic bombings a day. This is the real danger—that right-wing violence will engender wide-scale civil disorder. Nearly every breakdown of society starts with sanctioned violence putting people in the position where they have no choice but to flee or fight.

]]> By: DonBoy http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29523 DonBoy Tue, 25 May 2004 02:28:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29523 Here is a slight paraphrase of what Reynolds says, which I have extended beyond what he did say, in 2 different ways: 1) "Freedom of the press will come under systematic attack if a majority — or even a large and angry minority — of Americans comes to conclude that the press is untrustworthy and unpatriotic. If we get to that point, we'll all have to fight hard to prevent the forces of fascism from having their way and undoing the First Amendment." 2) "Freedom of the press will come under systematic attack if a majority — or even a large and angry minority — of Americans comes to conclude that the press is untrustworthy and unpatriotic. If we get to that point, well, whaddayagonna do? Can't argue with a mob -- even a small one. Huh." If Dave Neiwert were writing, he might come out with #1. But #2 reads way more like Reynolds' version; it's the fatalism of the thing. Here is a slight paraphrase of what Reynolds says, which I have extended beyond what he did say, in 2 different ways: 1) “Freedom of the press will come under systematic attack if a majority — or even a large and angry minority — of Americans comes to conclude that the press is untrustworthy and unpatriotic. If we get to that point, we’ll all have to fight hard to prevent the forces of fascism from having their way and undoing the First Amendment.” 2) “Freedom of the press will come under systematic attack if a majority — or even a large and angry minority — of Americans comes to conclude that the press is untrustworthy and unpatriotic. If we get to that point, well, whaddayagonna do? Can’t argue with a mob—even a small one. Huh.” If Dave Neiwert were writing, he might come out with #1. But #2 reads way more like Reynolds’ version; it’s the fatalism of the thing.

]]> By: fyreflye http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29522 fyreflye Tue, 25 May 2004 02:05:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29522 That link to Volokh doesn't work for my browser, Andrew. Is it Mozilla or Volokh that's no longer functional? That link to Volokh doesn’t work for my browser, Andrew. Is it Mozilla or Volokh that’s no longer functional?

]]> By: SamAm http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29521 SamAm Tue, 25 May 2004 00:09:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29521 Reynolds is, surprise surprise, all moronic bluster. Find me a libertarian defense for stomping the right to publish media that also holds sacred the right to bear arms and I'll start to worry. No doubt neurons are firing hard in Knoxville over just how to pull something like that off. Still, either Glenn drops the snivling cool-guy attitude and becomes just another right-wing stomp-them-all type or this circle remains unsquared. There is no enforcement mechanism for the type of shit he tries to shovel. None. So he can take a step back and tough American freedom the fuck out. Reynolds is, surprise surprise, all moronic bluster. Find me a libertarian defense for stomping the right to publish media that also holds sacred the right to bear arms and I’ll start to worry. No doubt neurons are firing hard in Knoxville over just how to pull something like that off. Still, either Glenn drops the snivling cool-guy attitude and becomes just another right-wing stomp-them-all type or this circle remains unsquared. There is no enforcement mechanism for the type of shit he tries to shovel. None. So he can take a step back and tough American freedom the fuck out.

]]> By: bellatrys http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29520 bellatrys Tue, 25 May 2004 00:05:05 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29520 Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan? And yes, Godwin's Law was suspended week before last, spontaneously, in several places. For the duration, as the saying goes. (Frankly I think that it should never have been, that it's part of the reason we are here now.) BTW, tacitus is in a meltdown. It's finally clicked that his Fearless Leaders have betrayed him, as he has been beginning to suspect for the last fortnight (he actually posted the helicopters-on-the-roof photo), and yet he doesn't want to change his beliefs, so he's hiding from the news like Sully was before the latter entered another cycle of manic to counter the depression. C'est la guerre... Does anybody really trust Volokh Conspiracy? Is there any reason to think that more honest/reliable blog than, say, Andrew Sullivan? And yes, Godwin’s Law was suspended week before last, spontaneously, in several places. For the duration, as the saying goes. (Frankly I think that it should never have been, that it’s part of the reason we are here now.) BTW, tacitus is in a meltdown. It’s finally clicked that his Fearless Leaders have betrayed him, as he has been beginning to suspect for the last fortnight (he actually posted the helicopters-on-the-roof photo), and yet he doesn’t want to change his beliefs, so he’s hiding from the news like Sully was before the latter entered another cycle of manic to counter the depression. C’est la guerre…

]]> By: Andrew Reeves http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29519 Andrew Reeves Mon, 24 May 2004 22:43:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29519 Gah, sorry about the double post. Gah, sorry about the double post.

]]> By: Andrew Reeves http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29518 Andrew Reeves Mon, 24 May 2004 22:41:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29518 Except, fyre, that the story about New Mexico making its rounds throughout the internet is not exactly how it happened. There's a good round up of the actual situation at Volokh:<p>http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_05_21.shtml#1085354422</p> Except, fyre, that the story about New Mexico making its rounds throughout the internet is not exactly how it happened. There’s a good round up of the actual situation at Volokh:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_05_21.shtml#1085354422

]]> By: Andrew Reeves http://crookedtimber.org/2004/05/24/all-gone-to-look-for-america/comment-page-2/#comment-29517 Andrew Reeves Mon, 24 May 2004 22:41:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1610#comment-29517 Except, fyre, that the story about New Mexico making its rounds throughout the internet is not exactly how it happened. There's a good round up of the actual situation at <a>Volokh</a>. Except, fyre, that the story about New Mexico making its rounds throughout the internet is not exactly how it happened. There’s a good round up of the actual situation at Volokh.

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