Comments on: Fair Warning http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:14:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: dj http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31964 dj Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:16:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31964 The difference between this exchange and less leftist exchanges is sriking. Many visit; few return. The difference between this exchange and less leftist exchanges is sriking. Many visit; few return.

]]> By: Simon Kinahan http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31963 Simon Kinahan Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:12:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31963 Could you also include "People With Carry On Luggage So Stuffed They Can Barely Support Its Weight", and "Short People Sitting in the Seats with Extra Leg Room" ? Could you also include “People With Carry On Luggage So Stuffed They Can Barely Support Its Weight”, and “Short People Sitting in the Seats with Extra Leg Room” ?

]]> By: RD http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31962 RD Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31962 Hey pepi, we could be the next Hannity and Colms! Now turn your "How do you plan to get elected?" criteria to the Democratic candidate. I'm betting a person of your wit could make it sound equally unattractive. Of course, you might stimulate a debate concerning the quality of choices our two point one party system offers us voters these days. I'd prefer that debate over "my horse shit candidate is better than what I think of your horse shit candidate." It seems that's what we've sunk to. Hey pepi, we could be the next Hannity and Colms! Now turn your “How do you plan to get elected?” criteria to the Democratic candidate. I’m betting a person of your wit could make it sound equally unattractive. Of course, you might stimulate a debate concerning the quality of choices our two point one party system offers us voters these days. I’d prefer that debate over “my horse shit candidate is better than what I think of your horse shit candidate.” It seems that’s what we’ve sunk to.

]]> By: pepi http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31961 pepi Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:13:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31961 Kieran, you forgot the part on _how_ you become President. How do you plan to get elected? Is your father a former President? Do you have a brother in Florida? Are you a former alcoholic and cocaine addict saved by the Bible? How about Vietnam, did you find a way to avoid going? Are you in good terms with the Reverend Moon? Did you work in the oil industry? And most importantly, did you do good business with the bin Ladens? If the answer is "no", sorry, I see no chance for you. Which is a real pity, cos your holy war on irritating habits sounds so cool. Kieran, you forgot the part on how you become President. How do you plan to get elected? Is your father a former President? Do you have a brother in Florida? Are you a former alcoholic and cocaine addict saved by the Bible? How about Vietnam, did you find a way to avoid going? Are you in good terms with the Reverend Moon? Did you work in the oil industry? And most importantly, did you do good business with the bin Ladens? If the answer is “no”, sorry, I see no chance for you. Which is a real pity, cos your holy war on irritating habits sounds so cool.

]]> By: q http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31960 q Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:45:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31960 rd- A great leader needs all 4 of vision, facts, logic and argument. rd- A great leader needs all 4 of vision, facts, logic and argument.

]]> By: RD http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31959 RD Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:54:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31959 q. "Even breast-beating visions require a foundation of facts, logic and argument to succeed, and a great leader needs all 4." I only count 3. What is the 4th thing a vision requires? Do visions require visions? Do you see things q.? Hear voices? If you peel the onion, I would think Kerry encompasses everything you hate. You just cannot support him as an individual. I don't believe you. q. “Even breast-beating visions require a foundation of facts, logic and argument to succeed, and a great leader needs all 4.” I only count 3. What is the 4th thing a vision requires? Do visions require visions? Do you see things q.? Hear voices? If you peel the onion, I would think Kerry encompasses everything you hate. You just cannot support him as an individual. I don’t believe you.

]]> By: gildo http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31958 gildo Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:39:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31958 John Updike on frequent flyers: THE OVERHEAD RACK Worst of all, and most hated by me as I sit docilely crammed in my seat, crammed and strapped like a psychotic in restraints, are these bland-faced complacent graduates of business schools, trained to give each other and the rest of the poor world the business, who attempt to stuff their not one but two folding bags big enough to hold an army of business suits into the overhead rack, already crammed with traveling crap like a constipated ox's intestine. The blonde doors cannot lower, the hats and bags of earlier arrivals are crushed. Why don't the smug smooth bastards check proliferating printouts, sheaf on sheaf, at the ticket counter, or, better yet, stay home and attend to their neglected wives and morose, TV-mesmerized offspring instead of crowding their slick and swollen bags and egos onto my airplane, my tube in space, my clean shot home? Like slats of a chicken coop overrunning with dung are the overhead racks. If we crash, thus overloaded, the world will yield up a grateful sigh at the headlines: one less batch of entrepreneurs to dread. Oh, kill, kill, kill, I think, watching the filth strap itself in, exhaling airport beer and nasal exchanges of professional dirt, those fat corpuscles in the nation's bloodstream: Oh, would I were a flying macrophage! - John Updike From the Ontario Review, No. 42, Spring/Summer 1995. John Updike on frequent flyers: THE OVERHEAD RACK Worst of all, and most hated by me as I sit docilely crammed in my seat, crammed and strapped like a psychotic in restraints, are these bland-faced complacent graduates of business schools, trained to give each other and the rest of the poor world the business, who attempt to stuff their not one but two folding bags big enough to hold an army of business suits into the overhead rack, already crammed with traveling crap like a constipated ox’s intestine. The blonde doors cannot lower, the hats and bags of earlier arrivals are crushed. Why don’t the smug smooth bastards check proliferating printouts, sheaf on sheaf, at the ticket counter, or, better yet, stay home and attend to their neglected wives and morose, TV-mesmerized offspring instead of crowding their slick and swollen bags and egos onto my airplane, my tube in space, my clean shot home? Like slats of a chicken coop overrunning with dung are the overhead racks. If we crash, thus overloaded, the world will yield up a grateful sigh at the headlines: one less batch of entrepreneurs to dread. Oh, kill, kill, kill, I think, watching the filth strap itself in, exhaling airport beer and nasal exchanges of professional dirt, those fat corpuscles in the nation’s bloodstream: Oh, would I were a flying macrophage! – John Updike From the Ontario Review, No. 42, Spring/Summer 1995.

]]> By: q http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31957 q Tue, 15 Jun 2004 05:13:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31957 Explanations are required where decisions of granting of power is being made: Bush will require an explanation and a vision in November, Kerry just requires the vision. Even breast-beating visions require a foundation of facts, logic and argument to succeed, and a great leader needs all 4. I have seen nothing in either vision so far that will prevent another attack on a similar or worse scale to the WTC attack on September-11 - In that nothingness lies a problem, and millions of lives put at risk - that nothingness deserves an explanation (with a vision that works). Explanations are required where decisions of granting of power is being made: Bush will require an explanation and a vision in November, Kerry just requires the vision. Even breast-beating visions require a foundation of facts, logic and argument to succeed, and a great leader needs all 4. I have seen nothing in either vision so far that will prevent another attack on a similar or worse scale to the WTC attack on September-11 – In that nothingness lies a problem, and millions of lives put at risk – that nothingness deserves an explanation (with a vision that works).

]]> By: Walt Pohl http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31956 Walt Pohl Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:26:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31956 Wow, rd has tapped into some vein of wignuttery so dark that he doesn't even begin to make sense anymore. This is probably an example of a Pareto improvement. Wow, rd has tapped into some vein of wignuttery so dark that he doesn’t even begin to make sense anymore. This is probably an example of a Pareto improvement.

]]> By: Ophelia Benson http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31955 Ophelia Benson Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:34:24 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31955 Well, and this is pretty scary stuff too. Not news, not surprising, not anything other than common knowledge, but still pretty scary and repulsive. <i>"Clearly transformed by Sept. 11, the President makes a point of projecting strength, confidence, and determination. <i>President Bush: "A president has got to be the calcium in the backbone. — If I weaken, the whole team weakens. — If I'm doubtful, I can assure you there will be a lot of doubt." <i>And Mr. Bush wants strength, not doubt, in his cabinet. <i>"In the midst of tough times I don't need people around me who are not steady," Bush tells Woodward. "And if there's a kind of a hand-wringing attitude going on when times are tough, I don't like it."</i> No doubt, no hand-wringing - meaning, you know, no thought, no reflection, no considering implications, no weighing alternatives, no imagination, no scruples. Just - pick a plan, quick, and then by gum stick to it no matter what. Calcium, back bone; strength, confidence and determination. </i></i></i> Well, and this is pretty scary stuff too. Not news, not surprising, not anything other than common knowledge, but still pretty scary and repulsive. “Clearly transformed by Sept. 11, the President makes a point of projecting strength, confidence, and determination. President Bush: “A president has got to be the calcium in the backbone. — If I weaken, the whole team weakens. — If I’m doubtful, I can assure you there will be a lot of doubt.” And Mr. Bush wants strength, not doubt, in his cabinet. “In the midst of tough times I don’t need people around me who are not steady,” Bush tells Woodward. “And if there’s a kind of a hand-wringing attitude going on when times are tough, I don’t like it.” No doubt, no hand-wringing – meaning, you know, no thought, no reflection, no considering implications, no weighing alternatives, no imagination, no scruples. Just – pick a plan, quick, and then by gum stick to it no matter what. Calcium, back bone; strength, confidence and determination.

]]> By: RD http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31954 RD Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:16:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31954 You're little joy ride with hysterics has already happened. A man named Hussein and his charming sons have already tried it. It doesn't work. No matter how much you try to make bad guys out of the good guys, you and your impressionable ilk will lose. That just tortures you, doesn't it. Keep ranting though, that means our system is still working. You're kind of the canary in the tunnel. Mwah! You’re little joy ride with hysterics has already happened. A man named Hussein and his charming sons have already tried it. It doesn’t work. No matter how much you try to make bad guys out of the good guys, you and your impressionable ilk will lose. That just tortures you, doesn’t it. Keep ranting though, that means our system is still working. You’re kind of the canary in the tunnel. Mwah!

]]> By: pseudosophist http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31953 pseudosophist Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:12:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31953 Sorry, I missed the footnote (an unhealthy aversion to small print, perhaps?). My bad. Sorry, I missed the footnote (an unhealthy aversion to small print, perhaps?). My bad.

]]> By: Kieran Healy http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31952 Kieran Healy Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:26:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31952 <i>He’s merely saying that in the context of a meeting with his staff, he sometimes makes comments intending to be deliberately provocative, and in those situations he doesn’t believe he needs to tell people that that is what he is doing. </i> Pseud, that's the point of the footnote, and the joke: Previously thought to be an offhand comment about confrontational management style within the Whitehouse, now elevated by Adminstration lawyers to a bit of constitutional interpretation designed to legitimate torture. We've come a long way in the last two and a half years. And, as you say, the full context for the original comment is linked to in my post. So what's not to like? He’s merely saying that in the context of a meeting with his staff, he sometimes makes comments intending to be deliberately provocative, and in those situations he doesn’t believe he needs to tell people that that is what he is doing. Pseud, that’s the point of the footnote, and the joke: Previously thought to be an offhand comment about confrontational management style within the Whitehouse, now elevated by Adminstration lawyers to a bit of constitutional interpretation designed to legitimate torture. We’ve come a long way in the last two and a half years. And, as you say, the full context for the original comment is linked to in my post. So what’s not to like?

]]> By: ArC http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31951 ArC Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:19:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31951 <i>He’s merely saying that in the context of a meeting with his staff, he sometimes makes comments intending to be deliberately provocative, and in those situations he doesn’t believe he needs to tell people that that is what he is doing.</i> So he picked the one of the worst parts of "The West Wing" to emulate? He’s merely saying that in the context of a meeting with his staff, he sometimes makes comments intending to be deliberately provocative, and in those situations he doesn’t believe he needs to tell people that that is what he is doing. So he picked the one of the worst parts of “The West Wing” to emulate?

]]> By: jayarbee http://crookedtimber.org/2004/06/14/fair-warning/comment-page-1/#comment-31950 jayarbee Tue, 15 Jun 2004 00:41:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=1723#comment-31950 <blockquote> KIERAN: I will have the Justice Department and a team of Military Lawyers by my side, together with a bag of bamboo splinters, a Leatherman Crunch, a Camping Stove and a copy of the Constitution of the United States for kindling. And who would stop me? </blockquote> No one. Not if you were a Republican, that is. Mainly, that is because, few would know. The press would not tell anyone. You quoted Bush from Woodward's <i>Bush at War</i>. Coincidentally, I also remarked on those words earlier today (<a HREF="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_06/004145.php#192867">here</a> and <a HREF="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_06/004145.php#192906">here</a>) on how his statement relates to the torture memo. When Woodward's book was released that quote did appear in print and online in a <i>few</i> outlets. But think about it. This was the President of the United States talking, asserting that he doesn't "owe anybody an explanation." These are words we might expect from a dictator. From someone who expects his actions to be unquestioned. From someone who would think himself free to do <i>anything</i>, including <b>torture</b>. Why weren't such telling words of the president in the headlines across the country? Why wasn't his claim of absolute power the lead story on all the networks? As a president, Bush is a failure, to be sure. But it is the media which have enabled him, thus betraying their duty to inform the people and our privilege (and theirs) to be free.
KIERAN: I will have the Justice Department and a team of Military Lawyers by my side, together with a bag of bamboo splinters, a Leatherman Crunch, a Camping Stove and a copy of the Constitution of the United States for kindling. And who would stop me?
No one. Not if you were a Republican, that is. Mainly, that is because, few would know. The press would not tell anyone. You quoted Bush from Woodward’s Bush at War. Coincidentally, I also remarked on those words earlier today (here and here) on how his statement relates to the torture memo. When Woodward’s book was released that quote did appear in print and online in a few outlets. But think about it. This was the President of the United States talking, asserting that he doesn’t “owe anybody an explanation.” These are words we might expect from a dictator. From someone who expects his actions to be unquestioned. From someone who would think himself free to do anything, including torture. Why weren’t such telling words of the president in the headlines across the country? Why wasn’t his claim of absolute power the lead story on all the networks? As a president, Bush is a failure, to be sure. But it is the media which have enabled him, thus betraying their duty to inform the people and our privilege (and theirs) to be free.

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