Comments on: Grilled Lobster on Sugarcane

By: abb1

abb1 — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:07:03 +0000

dubious, to your (dubious?) claim about 100 people killed by the Baathist regime every day. I have no idea what the correct number is, but here's what we do know, from the Guardian:

PM admits graves claim 'untrue' Sunday July 18, 2004 Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.

Cheers.

By: abb1

abb1 — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:51:55 +0000

Warthog Israel has broken the back of the Infitada by killing almost all of the Hamas and other terrorist groups leadership. There will be individual acts of terrorism inside Israel, and like crime these individual acts cannot be totally eliminated but the “war” is over. Wasn’t there a suicide bombing just yesterday? And isn’t Sharon now in the middle of the so-called ‘cut-and-run’ thing in Gaza? Not on your planet, huh. Yes, at least in Gaza it, indeed, is over – the resistance won. Before that it was over in Lebanon – the resistance won there. Stay tuned.

By: abb1

abb1 — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:10:34 +0000

dubious, As I understand it, the Baathist regime killed about 100 people a day between GW I and GW II (not counting excessively high mortality due to sanctions). The 15,000 or so Iraqi deaths and 1,500 or so coalition deaths yields fewer killings per day. Where did you get all these numbers, especially 100 people a day? How many did they kill in 2002 – why do you think it’s 100 people a day and not 2 people a day or 0 people a day? Thanks. Warthog, There hasn’t been a single American casualty in 11 of the 18 provinces of Iraq. “The onion” already had a similar joke: big success: 99% of Iraqis are still alive! Or something like that. You could’ve added that 80% of the US troops have neither been killed nor injured nor committed suicide nor were medically evacuated for any other reason. Not bad, huh?

By: dubious

dubious — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:06:03 +0000

If (big if) you’re a consequentialist (such as a Utilitarian or Utilitarian-of-Rights), and believe omission (Iraqis killed by Baathites, many of whom are probably now insurgents) and comission (Iraqis killed by US and by insurgents, since insurgent movement is only killing people due to invasion) are morally equivalent, then I think you can make an argument that (absent alternative uses of the money and troops, which would be hard to calculate hypotheticals) that the intervention has saved significant net lives. As I understand it, the Baathist regime killed about 100 people a day between GW I and GW II (not counting excessively high mortality due to sanctions). The 15,000 or so Iraqi deaths and 1,500 or so coalition deaths yields fewer killings per day. But then again, I think moral systems which are purely consequential are pretty superficial. For me, omission and commission are different.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:39:13 +0000

I should add that if this thing does enter an Operation Phoenix phase I see a “No soldier can carry a digital camera into the operational theater with him/her” type of order. Ghosts of Abu Ghairab and all that.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:38:05 +0000

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:29:28 +0000

Here is a standing bet: if Bush wins, a savage offensive is coming in November. The losses for the US military, the insurgents and civilians will be unprecedented. And what will follow that is something along the lines of Operation Phoenix a al Vietnam. I offer no bets whether this will achieve anything ot not (in a number of respects).

By: s_bethy

s_bethy — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:22:18 +0000

Does that 50% figure incorporate his chances of being in office next summer?

By: bob mcmanus

bob mcmanus — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:15:41 +0000

I believe there is at least a 50% chance Bushco starts pulling out next summer, down to 2 division by winter ‘05, no matter what consequences or conditions in Iraq. Expensive war, Greenspan gettin jumpy, and well, taxcuts uber alles.

By: s_bethy

s_bethy — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:00:37 +0000

“There hasn’t been a single American casualty in 11 of the 18 provinces of Iraq. Neither has the caualty distribution changed within the 7 remaining provinces. The problem area is the Sunni Triangle. Part of the reason is that the Turks went wobbly and the 4th ID didn’t have a Northern route.” Sorry to veer away from our entertaining topic. I love talking about the propensity of Libertarians to wield petards at close quarters, but warthog’s assertions above cry out for investigation. Coalition Casualty Report makes it pretty easy to see that the “not a single casualty” claim is incorrect. I didn’t try very hard to nail down the province of every casualty in the list, but even casual research turns up US (NOT broader ‘coalition’) fatal casualties in 16 of the 18 provinces. The two provinces that I’m not sure about, As Sulaymaniyah and Dahuk, are in the Kurdish Autonomous Region, which I think we can agree doesn’t fit the same profile as the rest of Iraq. By the way, I seem to recall the US getting nervous about Turkey threatening to situate troops in that area. Fortunately, they got ‘wobbly’. 21% of US casualties have been suffered in Baghdad proper. Oddly enough, Baghdad houses about 20% of Iraq’s non-coalition population. I’m sure there are interesting facts about the geographical distribution of coalition casualties. It’s probably not necessary to make some up.

By: JPed

JPed — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:44:02 +0000

Terrorist enabler? Wow…. that is unbelievably low. Making a mental note to ignore all subsequent ramblings from the warthog. For those who want the actual story of a brave and compassionate woman’s death, look here. For those who have no heart, there’s nothing the rest of us can say anyhow.

By: Kathryn Cramer

Kathryn Cramer — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:24:20 +0000

Clever Medium Lobster, infiltrating Samizdata. Where shall we go next?

By: Warthog

Warthog — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:45:45 +0000

You’ve misrepresented my posts but I’m glad that your happy anyway.

By: s_bethy

s_bethy — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:09:48 +0000

I’m pleased to learn that Israel has gotten over its problems. Very pleased indeed. I hadn’t heard that. I now see the wisdom of modeling our relations with the Arab world on Israel’s example. And it will start working in only two more weeks! I can’t tell you how much all this new information pleases me.

By: Jack

Jack — Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:04:41 +0000

“The Turks went wobbly”? 95% of the population was against the war!