Comments on: The Leg question http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:41:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Robin Green http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48047 Robin Green Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:07:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48047 <i>You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case.</i> Even if it was only Allawi saying that, wouldn't it tell us something rather unpleasant about the man the US picked for the job, and hence the US's own goals? However, you can't have it both ways. Either: (a) (contrary to all the avilable evidence) Allawi is in control and he was in a position to make such a demand, or (b) Allawi is not in control; the demand was calculated nonsense because he was in no position to make such a guarantee (and he if he was, it would be only on US say-so); and furthermore, he is an American pupp.. *cough* - sorry, I should use the more "polite" formulation: "subordinate to the Americans". Clearly, the latter is the case. You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case. Even if it was only Allawi saying that, wouldn’t it tell us something rather unpleasant about the man the US picked for the job, and hence the US’s own goals? However, you can’t have it both ways. Either: (a) (contrary to all the avilable evidence) Allawi is in control and he was in a position to make such a demand, or (b) Allawi is not in control; the demand was calculated nonsense because he was in no position to make such a guarantee (and he if he was, it would be only on US say-so); and furthermore, he is an American pupp.. cough – sorry, I should use the more “polite” formulation: “subordinate to the Americans”. Clearly, the latter is the case.

]]> By: Donald Johnson http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48046 Donald Johnson Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:36:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48046 The NYT had an article on October 12 about how the Pentagon saw civilian casualties as useful in driving a wedge between the residents of Fallujah and the insurgents. Jeanne at Body and Soul wrote a piece about this on that day, and cites the relevant quote. This is probably an opportune time to cite another quote, the one by Orwell about how nationalists never even hear about the atrocities committed by the home team. The NYT had an article on October 12 about how the Pentagon saw civilian casualties as useful in driving a wedge between the residents of Fallujah and the insurgents. Jeanne at Body and Soul wrote a piece about this on that day, and cites the relevant quote. This is probably an opportune time to cite another quote, the one by Orwell about how nationalists never even hear about the atrocities committed by the home team.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48045 abb1 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:06:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48045 The AP reports: <blockquote> A series of policy mistakes by the U.S. military and the Bush administration have transformed Fallujah from a shabby, dusty backwater known regionally for mosques and tasty kebabs into a <b>symbol of Arab pride and defiance of the United States throughout the Islamic world</b>. </blockquote> Could this be a reason to bomb them every day; y'know - to subtly make the point that resistance is futile? Nah, what a ridiculous idea: clearly it's the one-legged guy they want. They've gotta have'm. The AP reports:
A series of policy mistakes by the U.S. military and the Bush administration have transformed Fallujah from a shabby, dusty backwater known regionally for mosques and tasty kebabs into a symbol of Arab pride and defiance of the United States throughout the Islamic world.
Could this be a reason to bomb them every day; y’know – to subtly make the point that resistance is futile? Nah, what a ridiculous idea: clearly it’s the one-legged guy they want. They’ve gotta have’m.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48044 abb1 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:10:31 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48044 Fallujah is now the symbol of resistance, so they think they have to destroy it to make the point that resistance is futile. And they will. Simple as that. Fallujah is now the symbol of resistance, so they think they have to destroy it to make the point that resistance is futile. And they will. Simple as that.

]]> By: Detached Observer http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48043 Detached Observer Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:08:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48043 Don't you think your argument is rather dishonest? The <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/international/middleeast/27marines.html?hp&ex=1098936000&en=c904464482078c63&ei=5094&partner=homepage">stated rationale</a> for the bombing is that Fallujah has been a staging ground for insurgent attacks elsewhere. You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case. But the US has stated its intentions here - to rid the insurgency of a base to launch further attacks. Don’t you think your argument is rather dishonest? The stated rationale for the bombing is that Fallujah has been a staging ground for insurgent attacks elsewhere. You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case. But the US has stated its intentions here – to rid the insurgency of a base to launch further attacks.

]]> By: Detached Observer http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48042 Detached Observer Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:06:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48042 Don't you think your argument is rather dishonest? The <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/international/middleeast/27marines.html?hp&ex=1098936000&en=c904464482078c63&ei=5094&partner=homepage">stated rationale</a> for the bombing is that Fallujah has been a staging ground for insurgent attacks elsewhere. You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case. But the US has stated its intentions here - to rid the insurgency of a base to launch further attacks. Don’t you think your argument is rather dishonest? The stated rationale for the bombing is that Fallujah has been a staging ground for insurgent attacks elsewhere. You focus on one speech by Allawi, where he offers to cease the attacks if the residents turn over Zarqawi, and pretend it accurately represents the U.S. motivation in this case. But the US has stated its intentions here – to rid the insurgency of a base to launch further attacks.

]]> By: Jim Henley http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48041 Jim Henley Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:07:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48041 You are a god to me, Daniel. You are a god to me, Daniel.

]]> By: dsquared http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48040 dsquared Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:43:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48040 christ, I think he works in my tobacconists! christ, I think he works in my tobacconists!

]]> By: Michael Mouse http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48039 Michael Mouse Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:17:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48039 <strong>Date of birth:</strong>  October 30, 1966<br /><strong>Place of birth:</strong>  Zarqa, Jordan<br /><strong>Height:</strong>  Unknown<br /><strong>Weight:</strong>  Unknown<br /> <strong>Hair:</strong>  Dark<br /> <strong>Eyes:</strong>  Dark<br /> <strong>Sex:</strong>  Male<br /> <strong>Complexion:</strong>  Olive<br /> <strong>Number of legs:</strong>  Unknown Apparently he looks like <a href="http://www.rewardsforjustice.net/english/wanted_captured/index.cfm?page=Al_Zarqawi">this</a>, but inexplicably they don't give a leg shot. Date of birth:  October 30, 1966
Place of birth:  Zarqa, Jordan
Height:  Unknown
Weight:  Unknown
Hair:  Dark
Eyes:  Dark
Sex:  Male
Complexion:  Olive
Number of legs:  Unknown Apparently he looks like this, but inexplicably they don’t give a leg shot.

]]> By: Jack http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48038 Jack Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:25:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48038 <i>What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead?</i> Also like Ned Ludd, Captain Swing, Nicolai Bourbaki and Arthur Besse. What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead? Also like Ned Ludd, Captain Swing, Nicolai Bourbaki and Arthur Besse.

]]> By: nick http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48037 nick Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:59:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48037 <i>What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead?</i> That's my gut sense. Very postmodern. Very Luther Blissett. What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead? That’s my gut sense. Very postmodern. Very Luther Blissett.

]]> By: bad Jim http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48036 bad Jim Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:45:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48036 What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead? Landing such a miscreant becomes rather more difficult, like teasing out the genealogy of a victory when success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan. What if al-Zarqawi is something like the dread pirate Roberts, a terrorist franchise rather than a vicious figurehead? Landing such a miscreant becomes rather more difficult, like teasing out the genealogy of a victory when success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan.

]]> By: nick http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48035 nick Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:32:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48035 The public is not yet ready for a one-legged interpretation of this historic role. The public is not yet ready for a one-legged interpretation of this historic role.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48034 John Quiggin Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:31:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48034 <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1312647,00.html">This Times article</a> is a better link. See also <a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2843050">this</a> This Times article is a better link. See also this

]]> By: anon http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/26/the-leg-question/comment-page-1/#comment-48033 anon Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:13:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2421#comment-48033 Whoa, hold on. That Google groups search doesn't point to any articles which say what you say they say. I agree that if your statement is accurate, the US's behavior in this instance is more despicable than it has generally been in the prosecution of this war. But is it? Whoa, hold on. That Google groups search doesn’t point to any articles which say what you say they say. I agree that if your statement is accurate, the US’s behavior in this instance is more despicable than it has generally been in the prosecution of this war. But is it?

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