Comments on: What the… http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 26 May 2012 05:35:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jeremiah J. http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48340 Jeremiah J. Mon, 01 Nov 2004 05:28:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48340 "and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway" Seems like safe ground, I suppose: just assume that any wrongdoing by one party is matched by monkey business on the other side. Problem is that it's intellectually lazy, morally irresponsible, and in this situation, contradicted by the evidence. The Republicans like to talk about widespread voter fraud. But even in their press packet on voter fraud, there are only two cases of voter fraud with any amount of evidence behind them--the crack addict who faked (obviously and ham-fistedly) a bunch of voter registrations, and the guy in CO who boasted being registered 35 times. Both are bad and confirmed, but neither is evidence of an organized attempt to change the actual election outcome. In Ohio, you have at least a half dozen clear, documented cases of attempts to disqualify voters on technicalities or discourage them from voting. Decent Republicans need to get their heads out of the sand and step up and condemn these tactics. “and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway” Seems like safe ground, I suppose: just assume that any wrongdoing by one party is matched by monkey business on the other side. Problem is that it’s intellectually lazy, morally irresponsible, and in this situation, contradicted by the evidence. The Republicans like to talk about widespread voter fraud. But even in their press packet on voter fraud, there are only two cases of voter fraud with any amount of evidence behind them—the crack addict who faked (obviously and ham-fistedly) a bunch of voter registrations, and the guy in CO who boasted being registered 35 times. Both are bad and confirmed, but neither is evidence of an organized attempt to change the actual election outcome. In Ohio, you have at least a half dozen clear, documented cases of attempts to disqualify voters on technicalities or discourage them from voting. Decent Republicans need to get their heads out of the sand and step up and condemn these tactics.

]]> By: bza http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48339 bza Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:14:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48339 <i>and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway</i> Your evenhandedness is admirable, <i>if</i> you can cite some evidence, beyond the say-so of a Republic offical, of similar activity going on on the Democratic side. and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway Your evenhandedness is admirable, if you can cite some evidence, beyond the say-so of a Republic offical, of similar activity going on on the Democratic side.

]]> By: George http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48338 George Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:47:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48338 Thanks. The distinction between regular mail and registered mail seems significant, though I'm still not sure how much. I'm not trying to defend these people; they are most likely toads, though it is plausible that they really thought they were doing something perfectly legal, or even admirable. But in any case, it just does not (yet) seem to reach the threshold of "goddamn outrage." In general, I try to filter out most of these stories of shady goings-on (unless they involve actual violence) because it's so difficult to get the full context -- and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway. Thanks. The distinction between regular mail and registered mail seems significant, though I’m still not sure how much. I’m not trying to defend these people; they are most likely toads, though it is plausible that they really thought they were doing something perfectly legal, or even admirable. But in any case, it just does not (yet) seem to reach the threshold of “goddamn outrage.” In general, I try to filter out most of these stories of shady goings-on (unless they involve actual violence) because it’s so difficult to get the full context—and there seem to be plenty on both sides anyway.

]]> By: Ted Barlow http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48337 Ted Barlow Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:36:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48337 I wouldn't either, especially if I worked far from home. Most people don't take time off of work lightly. I wouldn’t either, especially if I worked far from home. Most people don’t take time off of work lightly.

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48336 Matt Weiner Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:10:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48336 <i>is there no case law regarding the use of returned mail to challenge voter registration? I think it’s not an uncommon tactic</i>. Surely not returned <i>registered</i> mail, which you have to be at home during the day to receive. As <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004/10/hardball-in-ohio.html">Atrios</a> says, "I sure as hell wouldn't accept a registered letter from the Republican party, and I definitely wouldn't bother to stand in line for an hour at my post office to pick it up if I wasn't home to get it." is there no case law regarding the use of returned mail to challenge voter registration? I think it’s not an uncommon tactic. Surely not returned registered mail, which you have to be at home during the day to receive. As Atrios says, “I sure as hell wouldn’t accept a registered letter from the Republican party, and I definitely wouldn’t bother to stand in line for an hour at my post office to pick it up if I wasn’t home to get it.”

]]> By: Rivka http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48335 Rivka Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:08:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48335 It's important to note that the Ohio Republicans are basing their challenges on returned <i>registered letters</i>. If you're not home when a registered letter is delivered, you have to go to the post office to pick it up. Usually the delivery notification tells you who the package is from. It's hard to blame people for not wanting to trek all the way down to the post office and wait in line for registered mail labeled as being from the Republican Party. It’s important to note that the Ohio Republicans are basing their challenges on returned registered letters. If you’re not home when a registered letter is delivered, you have to go to the post office to pick it up. Usually the delivery notification tells you who the package is from. It’s hard to blame people for not wanting to trek all the way down to the post office and wait in line for registered mail labeled as being from the Republican Party.

]]> By: nolo http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48334 nolo Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:00:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48334 From a lawyer's point of view, the biggest problem with the Summit County voter registration "challenge" drive is not the use of returned mail. It was that the persons making the challenge did not have personal knowledge of the facts upon which they were basing their challenges. They were simply following the list given to them by local party officials. Now, this may not seem like a huge deal, but by signing off on them, the persons making the challenges were attesting that they did, in fact, have personal knowledge. Which apparently wasn't true. This little detail might escape laypersons, but it seems there were some attorneys involved in directing the challengers to file these challenges. I'm not a huge expert in Ohio law regarding attorney discipline (though I know a few things, for sure), but seems to me there were some disciplinary violations here. From a lawyer’s point of view, the biggest problem with the Summit County voter registration “challenge” drive is not the use of returned mail. It was that the persons making the challenge did not have personal knowledge of the facts upon which they were basing their challenges. They were simply following the list given to them by local party officials. Now, this may not seem like a huge deal, but by signing off on them, the persons making the challenges were attesting that they did, in fact, have personal knowledge. Which apparently wasn’t true. This little detail might escape laypersons, but it seems there were some attorneys involved in directing the challengers to file these challenges. I’m not a huge expert in Ohio law regarding attorney discipline (though I know a few things, for sure), but seems to me there were some disciplinary violations here.

]]> By: Sven http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48333 Sven Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:47:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48333 I dunno about case law, but there is <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7422-2004Oct28.html">this</a>: <blockquote>The Republican challenges in Ohio, Wisconsin and other battleground states prompted civil rights and labor unions to sue in U.S. District Court in Newark, saying the GOP is violating a consent decree, issued in the 1980s by Judge Dickinson R. Debevoise and still in effect, that prevents the Republicans from starting "ballot security" programs to prevent voter fraud that target minorities.</blockquote> I dunno about case law, but there is this:
The Republican challenges in Ohio, Wisconsin and other battleground states prompted civil rights and labor unions to sue in U.S. District Court in Newark, saying the GOP is violating a consent decree, issued in the 1980s by Judge Dickinson R. Debevoise and still in effect, that prevents the Republicans from starting “ballot security” programs to prevent voter fraud that target minorities.

]]> By: George http://crookedtimber.org/2004/10/29/what-the/comment-page-1/#comment-48332 George Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:58:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2437#comment-48332 Agreed about the second one. Reminds me strongly of that forged Special Olympics flyer planted in the Tennessee Democratic office. About the first, is there no case law regarding the use of returned mail to challenge voter registration? I think it's not an uncommon tactic. Dirty yes, but before calling it a "goddamn outrage" I'd want to see some statistics. The "voter intimidation" label I would save for shooting bullets into a campaign office or gunning down political opponents in your car, or actual violence like that. PS: priceless (mis)quote in the article though: "I felt that my voracity was being challenged...." No chance of that. Agreed about the second one. Reminds me strongly of that forged Special Olympics flyer planted in the Tennessee Democratic office. About the first, is there no case law regarding the use of returned mail to challenge voter registration? I think it’s not an uncommon tactic. Dirty yes, but before calling it a “goddamn outrage” I’d want to see some statistics. The “voter intimidation” label I would save for shooting bullets into a campaign office or gunning down political opponents in your car, or actual violence like that. PS: priceless (mis)quote in the article though: “I felt that my voracity was being challenged….” No chance of that.

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