Comments on: Going Home to a Foreign Country

By: MarieS

MarieS — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:44:04 +0000

I left in the early eighties for economic reasons but I have returned every summer (for about five weeks) since 1989. Yes the country has changed but mostly for the better. I may be packing off my draft-age son in the near future but thankfully he won’t experience any culture shock. He loves the greyhounds However. I’m staying right here to help reclaim our country fron the wingers Fight On!!

By: Matt McGrattan

Matt McGrattan — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:45 +0000

“And I’m generally against the pastoral fantasy world-view of most Americans, and have been known to mock those identifying in any way with “the old country” if it was more than three generations in their family’s past.” Three generations is a bit generous. :-)

By: john b

john b — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:03:16 +0000

I’m skeptical of PPP conversions; while they’re a necessary evil when looking at how poor developing economies really are, the inaccuracies introduced when comparing developed countries are generally on a par with the price differences you’re trying to measure. And in a country such as Hong Kong, where trade is the main thing driving the economy and imports are higher than GDP, exchange rate fluctuations aren’t academic as they are for Americans. The HK$ has depreciated by 12% against the £ even since the 2003 figures I quoted, and this will have had a real and significant impact on Hong Kongers’ purchasing power relative to Brits’. So… hopefully all this will ward off the monkeys.

By: Justin Mason

Justin Mason — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:17 +0000

anon: yep, or to the rural Irish equivalent of Pennsylvania. it still exists, just shrinking…

By: anon

anon — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:14:06 +0000

I’m a currently employed computer professional in California, academic background, American—two hundred and more years ago grandpa Philip left county Cork to watch General Washington’s inaugural from the cheap seats. And I’m generally against the pastoral fantasy world-view of most Americans, and have been known to mock those identifying in any way with “the old country” if it was more than three generations in their family’s past. But I’d always hoped I might prosper sufficiently to relocate somewhere else in the world where I could settle down and make sense of the milennial world culture. Preferably someplace bucolic and green with a slow pace of life. Yes, I admit it, I’ve cherished pastoral fantasies of early retirement to Ireland. (And in retrospect it’s obvious that these have been subconsciously encouraged by the Irish film industry.) The discussion above—which I follow with interest since, as I’ve said, I think a lot about the changes associated with the milennial world culture—makes me realize I’m kidding myself. If I want to retire to an unspoiled rural backwater, given the choice of anywhere in the world … I should just go back to Pennsylvania. No complaints, just making the observation! :-)

By: P O'Neill

P O'Neill — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:12:00 +0000

Actually, UrSA’s comment reminds me—the NYT article is a little sloppy (or written by the Shinners) in that it mingles the experiences of people north and south of the border even though the conditions (not least with the peace process and the currency) are somewhat different.

By: Giles

Giles — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:55:45 +0000

immage if you’re interested here

By: Giles

Giles — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:32:07 +0000

PPP GDP figures are HK -$28,800 (2003 est.) CIA UK – $27,700 (2003 est.) http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ Penn World Tables UK 22188.2315 PWT HK 26698.5073 PWT Gronneigen HK 22,706 UK 21,136 http://www.ggdc.net/ In fact I can’t find a source with UK GDP higher than HK. I think the mistake people often make with UK GDP is to do comparisons with London GDP – which is about 150% of the national level. Anyway better start eating bananas now John B before we hear a great ripping sound followed by oh oh oh!

By: dsquared

dsquared — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:07:41 +0000

On a PPP measure Hong Kong is “richer” (insofar has higher GDP means richer). In the specific case of HK, I’d guess that it doesn’t; GDP doesn’t account for net transfer payments overseas and I would guess that these would be substantial and negative in the case of HK since so much of the capital stock is owned by foreigners.

By: Urinated State of America

Urinated State of America — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:26:37 +0000

“All that EU money, you know.” More like interest rates being too low in Ireland and to high for Germany The culture shock is even stronger for us from the North. I left Northern Ireland (Newry) in 1986 to go to college in England, when the IRA were bombing the shit out of the town center to get $$$ from exortion, troops were on the street, unemployment was 25%, the place was a real fucking shithole. I left for the US in 1993. Now you go back, and unemployment is <5%, there are part-time jobs for teenagers, there is a Sainsburys and Tesco's and a six-screen cinema, there are no troops on the street, and the small supermarket round the corner has an entire fucking display of Thai sauces. House prices are also expensive, more than, say, Newcastle in the north of England, but not at the psychotic levels of Dublin. Belfast also feels very, very prosperous. My hopes of being the prosperous urban sophisticate impressing the bog-trotting locals are sadly dashed.

By: Justin Mason

Justin Mason — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:24:21 +0000

I’m midway through a stint in the US, after following my gf here in 2003, planning to return to Ireland in a couple of years. One thing—the “high property prices” meme going around isn’t 100% accurate. In fact, the property prices are still less than many of the world’s major cities, like LA, SF, and (of course) London. They are high, a lot higher than they used to be, pre-boom—but compared to other cities, as a proportion of salary, they’re not crazy. Here in Southern California, about 40 miles from LA, I’m paying almost double the figure I paid in Ireland. I’m looking forward to getting back—although being away has changed me a lot. I’m not sure how easy the reverse culture shock is going to be…

By: burritoboy

burritoboy — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:00:34 +0000

Same thing happened in Israel, by the way. Same time frame and same initial cause (expansion of technology industry into somewhat cheaper English-speaking nations), from what I understand. Israel’s economy declined after 2001 though due to Intifada II and not having the “gateway to the EU factor” that is working for Ireland. Of course, Israel was a more developed nation than Ireland before, but the change was extremely noticeable.

By: billyfrombelfast

billyfrombelfast — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:07:13 +0000

Another Paddy in New York here, one who left in the late nineties. I’m a quantity surveyor, so of course it wasn’t for economic reasons at all (I fell in love . . . ) and similarly to Kieran, my younger siblings never even considered it. Of course the Walsh/Morrison system doesn’t exist any more either. Up around Woodlawn there are a lot of people who have been “planning to sell up and go home” for the 7 or 8 years of my acquaintance with them. Of course it will never happen. They’re mostly union wood floor and drywall carpenters – very well paid. The adjustment required for people in those trades moving home would be pretty difficult, I would think. I’m a well-paid professional here, but even with my Manhattan salary the cost of houses in Dublin scares the bejaysus out of me.

By: kevin donoghue

kevin donoghue — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:29:23 +0000

John B, you are doing Giles an injustice (unless there is some sense in which monkeys actually do fly out of your arse). The ratio of UK GDP to HK GDP is surely affected quite a lot by exchange rate movements. On a PPP measure Hong Kong is “richer” (insofar has higher GDP means richer). In other words, your statement is true if monkeys fly out of your arse but they don’t fetch as much in the pet-shop.

By: john b

john b — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:14:22 +0000

Giles – Hong Kong is richer than the UK in approximately the same sense that monkeys fly out of my arse (UK GDP per head was around US$30K last year; Hong Kong’s was US$21K).