http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:53:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51625 Sebastian Holsclaw Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:35:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51625 "Libertarians would also argue that government is the reason that “old stuff” isn’t free, and that you should start by getting rid of the 897th Mickey Mouse Protection Act and its family before giving a government bureaucracy more power." As a conservative with a libertarian bent, I would suggest that we could appropriate the reasoning behind adverse possession in land. In the US, if a squatter openly possesses land for a long period of time and represents it has his own (the period is usually 10-20 years) it actually becomes his. The idea is to encourage the efficient use of land by taking it away from those who don't pay attention to it enough to notice that someone else is using it. We could make a non-adverse rule that if you aren't using the copyright after 20 years, you lose it. This would tend to allow a longish copyright period for those who are actively creating and then using material, but would free our cultural heritage for much of the cheap stuff you are talking about. “Libertarians would also argue that government is the reason that “old stuff” isn’t free, and that you should start by getting rid of the 897th Mickey Mouse Protection Act and its family before giving a government bureaucracy more power.” As a conservative with a libertarian bent, I would suggest that we could appropriate the reasoning behind adverse possession in land. In the US, if a squatter openly possesses land for a long period of time and represents it has his own (the period is usually 10-20 years) it actually becomes his. The idea is to encourage the efficient use of land by taking it away from those who don’t pay attention to it enough to notice that someone else is using it. We could make a non-adverse rule that if you aren’t using the copyright after 20 years, you lose it. This would tend to allow a longish copyright period for those who are actively creating and then using material, but would free our cultural heritage for much of the cheap stuff you are talking about.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51624 spacetoast Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:54:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51624 Ben, I don't know how the volume of business they do compares to, say, Amoeba, but I think it qualifies as a "neighborhood store," as regards the edifice itself. It may be that a place like Aquarius is a counterexample to what I was thinking about, considering what share of its business the store itself probably accounts for--I guess you could say that the fact that Aquarius isn't exactly a neighborhood store (with respect to how much business it does) is exactly how it's able to be a neighborhood store (in the sense of being tucked in so cozily there on the street)--but, there is still the online *business* supporting the other. In any case, my point was really about the patterns of interaction that develop around places that, err, one walks to, and I do think there's a question about stuff disappearing from the street, however one wants to frame that. If that's wrong though, that's great! Ben, I don’t know how the volume of business they do compares to, say, Amoeba, but I think it qualifies as a “neighborhood store,” as regards the edifice itself. It may be that a place like Aquarius is a counterexample to what I was thinking about, considering what share of its business the store itself probably accounts for—I guess you could say that the fact that Aquarius isn’t exactly a neighborhood store (with respect to how much business it does) is exactly how it’s able to be a neighborhood store (in the sense of being tucked in so cozily there on the street)—but, there is still the online business supporting the other. In any case, my point was really about the patterns of interaction that develop around places that, err, one walks to, and I do think there’s a question about stuff disappearing from the street, however one wants to frame that. If that’s wrong though, that’s great!

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51623 Z.Z.B. Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:32:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51623 Art is the last bastion of human expression. It is the link we have in the material world which touches our soul. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ZZ Bachman / The ZardozZ Portal http://zardozz.com/zz/ Have a Blog ? Ring Surf it @ ZZ OpenRing http://zardozz.com/ Art is the last bastion of human expression. It is the link we have in the material world which touches our soul. ————————————————————————————————- ZZ Bachman / The ZardozZ Portal http://zardozz.com/zz/ Have a Blog ? Ring Surf it @ ZZ OpenRing http://zardozz.com/

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51622 ben wolfson Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:04:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51622 Spacetoast, Aquarius, awesome as it is, isn't exactly a neighborhood record store. And there's plenty of marginal material available for free right now on soulseek and the like; it's just a little more work to find it. Nevertheless I still go to my <a href="http://www.reckless.com/new/">neighborhood store</a> on occasion (I'd go a lot more often if they were as awesome as Aquarius or Amoeba). Spacetoast, Aquarius, awesome as it is, isn’t exactly a neighborhood record store. And there’s plenty of marginal material available for free right now on soulseek and the like; it’s just a little more work to find it. Nevertheless I still go to my neighborhood store on occasion (I’d go a lot more often if they were as awesome as Aquarius or Amoeba).

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51621 digamma Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:59:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51621 <i>Obviously libertarians might object that they aren't interested in cheap old stuff, so why should they be forced to pay?</i> Libertarians would also argue that government is the reason that "old stuff" isn't free, and that you should start by getting rid of the 897th Mickey Mouse Protection Act and its family before giving a government bureaucracy more power. Obviously libertarians might object that they aren’t interested in cheap old stuff, so why should they be forced to pay? Libertarians would also argue that government is the reason that “old stuff” isn’t free, and that you should start by getting rid of the 897th Mickey Mouse Protection Act and its family before giving a government bureaucracy more power.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51620 Zach Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:37:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51620 "Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don't believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art's sake." <a href="http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/E._M._Forster">E.M. Forster</a> “Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don’t believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art’s sake.” E.M. Forster

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51619 Zach Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:36:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51619 "Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don't believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art's sake." <a href="http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/E._M._Forster">E.M. Forster</a> “Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don’t believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art’s sake.” E.M. Forster

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51618 Zach Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:35:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51618 "Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don't believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art's sake." <a href="http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/E._M._Forster">E.M. Forster</a> “Works of art, in my opinion, are the only objects in the material universe to possess internal order, and that is why, though I don’t believe that only art matters, I do believe in Art for Art’s sake.” E.M. Forster

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51617 Rob Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:28:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51617 Personally, I always been rather tempted to respond to the libertarian argument by saying that I see no reason why we should take revealed preferences as the sole indication of what people want/need/should want. Why should we assume that the money people are prepared to pay for something is the only important way in which its value is revealed? Liberals have been aware of the problems with the market since Mill, if not before, and there is no clear reason why we should take the judgements of the market as gospel so far as art goes, but not so far as employment, pensions, health and so on. It sounds like a really good idea though: a commons of cultural DNA. I also like the idea of it being compensation for excessively strong copyright laws. Personally, I always been rather tempted to respond to the libertarian argument by saying that I see no reason why we should take revealed preferences as the sole indication of what people want/need/should want. Why should we assume that the money people are prepared to pay for something is the only important way in which its value is revealed? Liberals have been aware of the problems with the market since Mill, if not before, and there is no clear reason why we should take the judgements of the market as gospel so far as art goes, but not so far as employment, pensions, health and so on. It sounds like a really good idea though: a commons of cultural DNA. I also like the idea of it being compensation for excessively strong copyright laws.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51616 spacetoast Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:27:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51616 I'm not sure Tex Ritter in particular is a great example of not being commercially viable. I think an expensive Tex Ritter box-set just came out last year. Also, I wonder how implementing this sort of thing would affect certain kinds of<a href="http://www.aquariusrecords.org/">"hipster infrastructure"</a>. I don't know whether it's something people care about, or ought to care about, but I think a lot of small businesses are sustained, to a significant degree, by filtering and repackaging exactly this sort of marginal content. I'm ambivalent, but there is something to be said for the cool antiquarian/? record store as a neighborhood constellation, or whatever. Also, any "Jethro" worthy of his "nom de hick" is more likely to listen to, say, Ricky Skaggs, than Shania Twain or whatever. Back in my record store days, it was mostly young gay men, and the urban/suburban line-dancing crowd who comprised the "New Country" audience, and I expect that's still the case. I’m not sure Tex Ritter in particular is a great example of not being commercially viable. I think an expensive Tex Ritter box-set just came out last year. Also, I wonder how implementing this sort of thing would affect certain kinds of“hipster infrastructure”. I don’t know whether it’s something people care about, or ought to care about, but I think a lot of small businesses are sustained, to a significant degree, by filtering and repackaging exactly this sort of marginal content. I’m ambivalent, but there is something to be said for the cool antiquarian/? record store as a neighborhood constellation, or whatever. Also, any “Jethro” worthy of his “nom de hick” is more likely to listen to, say, Ricky Skaggs, than Shania Twain or whatever. Back in my record store days, it was mostly young gay men, and the urban/suburban line-dancing crowd who comprised the “New Country” audience, and I expect that’s still the case.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51615 Jackmormon Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:20:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51615 My understanding is that the LOC is already doing some of this work. I haven't really checked it out yet, but a Sept 10, 2004 NYT article points to the American Memory Collection at: http://memory.loc.gove/ammem/audio/html The problem with some of these databases, though, is that they're a bit user unfriendly. My understanding is that the LOC is already doing some of this work. I haven’t really checked it out yet, but a Sept 10, 2004 NYT article points to the American Memory Collection at: http://memory.loc.gove/ammem/audio/html The problem with some of these databases, though, is that they’re a bit user unfriendly.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51614 dsquared Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:19:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51614 As I remember it, the Academie Francais isn't supported financially by the French state; it finances itself by the sales of its dictionary and out of an endowment fund created by years of legacies and gifts. It even has a bit of cash left over to carry out charitable works. It's what you might call "a self-perpetuating cultural elite". I dealt a while ago with the argument from market failure for subsidising the production of works of art; there is a missing market. Future generations will enjoy things like "Piss Christ" for hundreds of years - they'd be correctly modelled as capital assets with a very long depreciation life. But there is no way that we can collect payment from future generations for their enjoyment, so in equilibrium, works of art will tend to be underproduced. I'm guessing that this would suggest that you need to sponsor <i>avant-garde</i> art more than anything else, as this is the case in which the ratio between the enjoyment we get today and the enjoyment of future generations is the smallest. As I remember it, the Academie Francais isn’t supported financially by the French state; it finances itself by the sales of its dictionary and out of an endowment fund created by years of legacies and gifts. It even has a bit of cash left over to carry out charitable works. It’s what you might call “a self-perpetuating cultural elite”. I dealt a while ago with the argument from market failure for subsidising the production of works of art; there is a missing market. Future generations will enjoy things like “Piss Christ” for hundreds of years – they’d be correctly modelled as capital assets with a very long depreciation life. But there is no way that we can collect payment from future generations for their enjoyment, so in equilibrium, works of art will tend to be underproduced. I’m guessing that this would suggest that you need to sponsor avant-garde art more than anything else, as this is the case in which the ratio between the enjoyment we get today and the enjoyment of future generations is the smallest.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51613 Adam Kotsko Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:47:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51613 It's almost like the state paying reparations to the public sphere after allowing/encouraging the development of excessive copyright laws in the first place. And even if that's a stupid analysis of what you've said, I still think it sounds like a great idea. It’s almost like the state paying reparations to the public sphere after allowing/encouraging the development of excessive copyright laws in the first place. And even if that’s a stupid analysis of what you’ve said, I still think it sounds like a great idea.

]]> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/11/21/the-nea-and-the-big-tally-book-of-cultural-dna/comment-page-1/#comment-51612 ben wolfson Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:46:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/wp/?p=2556#comment-51612 mp3 is a closed format, plus it's lossy. The gummint should release its audio as FLAC and ogg files. (only serious.) mp3 is a closed format, plus it’s lossy. The gummint should release its audio as FLAC and ogg files. (only serious.)

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