“So far I, and the majority of the world who disagreed with Bush’s invasion, have been right. Where are the WMDs? Where are the Iraqis throwing flowers? Where’s the peace and stability?” No other intelligence agency thought any differently from the CIA. And Saddam was still in violation of UN sanctions considering abilities to produce WMD’s. Many Iraqis did throw flowers in the beginning. The peace and stability would be plentiful without Syrian and Iranian support. The insurgency is more of a proxy war between Iran, Syria, and the US than a home grown popular uprising.

Jet, dear child, the only person responsible for these unnecessary US deaths is Georgie Bush. I don’t “hope” for them – I’d far prefer it if the US had exhibited some measure of sanity and not unilaterally bombed and invaded another country.

However, since the US has decided to do this, the deaths of American soldiers have been some sort of restraint on future actions. In that the US is waving the sabre at Iran and Syria, the high death rate of American soldiers in Iraq is a good thing; it may constrain the US from deciding to murder considerably more Arabs and Persians in the near future.

You do realise that far more Iraqis have died than Americans, don’t you? You do realise that each and every Iraqi was just as much a human being as an American, don’t you?

If two or three thousand American fatalities in Iraq now prevent fifty or sixty thousand Iranian fatalities in Iran later, this is a good thing, surely?

May your children hear every word you say and grow up to realize how fucking wrong you were.

So far I, and the majority of the world who disagreed with Bush’s invasion, have been right. Where are the WMDs? Where are the Iraqis throwing flowers? Where’s the peace and stability?

Asshole.

Fool.

This is correct…

which was my point.

“So in the time of Romans, you might as well call yourself a Macedonian or Seleucidian as Phoenician.”

This is still not true, anymore than pointing out that England, Australia and America share the same Western European culture means an Aussie can call himself American.

Or you could mean more of a metaphor that you are from an ancient learned culture in a time of crass westerners.

Actually, I picked the nom-de-guerre after 2 minutes thought just to indicate that I was (a) not American and (b) from a nation dependent on trade. Nothing more.

“what can you say about such ignorance” Well first off, let me point out some of your ignorance. If you are speaking of the Phoenicians from 3,000-1,00 BC, then you aren’t talking about the time of Romans. Rome took the spotlight 700 years later. By the time Rome ascended to the world stage, Phoenicia had been assimaliated into Hellenistic culture, which was my point. And what did I say that made you think I didn’t understand Carthrage was a colony? It was a Phoenician colony wasn’t it?

Or did you mean that you are a 3,000 to 800 BC Phoenician in 300 BC – 400 AD? But surely not, because that would just be silly.

Or you could mean more of a metaphor that you are from an ancient learned culture in a time of crass westerners. But that would go beyound silly into the realm of lameness.

Jesu Christi on a pogo stick, what can you say about such ignorance?

Phoenicians – coast of Syria, i.e. modern-day Lebenon. Carthage was a colony. Biblically, these were the Canaanites. Invented the alphabet. To the EAST of the Greeks, around 3000-1000 BC.

Macedonians – well, Macedonia. To the NORTH the Greeks.

Seleucids – Empire spanning Persia to Syria, post-Alexander. Around 300 BC.

It’s like confusing the USA with the Aztecs…

Jesu Christi on a pogo stick, what can you say about such ignorance?

Phoenicians – coast of Syria, i.e. modern-day Lebenon. Carthage was a colony. Biblically, these were the Canaanites. Invented the alphabet. To the EAST of the Greeks, around 3000-1000 BC.

Macedonians – well, Macedonia. To the NORTH the Greeks.

Seleucids – Empire spanning Persia to Syria, post-Alexander. Around 300 BC.

It’s like confusing the USA with the Aztecs…

“But I don’t have any problem at all with Iraqis blowing up or shooting American soldiers engaged in occupying their country after an illegal invasion.” So this is probably what was going on in the average Romans mind when Roman armies were nailing up thousands of Phoenicians to crosses to pay back Hannibal’s “illegal” invasion.

How sad you must be when you are hoping Democracy will fail in Iraq and the Americans will go home defeated. How utterly sad for you. Did you know the only time the Phoenicians were able to regain self-rule was the short period they were a semi-republic. About as close to a Democracy as was back then. And here is a modern day Phoenician hoping against Democracy. No wonder Phoenicians took it in the ass all through history.

There was an ad in the Nation telling them not to show up at the WTC that morning…

Soldiers under command must, generally speaking, accept the mission they are given without question. That’s a military reality. But the citizens of a democracy served by those soldiers have an equally important duty to do the opposite. Especially if the policymakers are failing.

Many analysts are saying that the war in Iraq is lost, and it slid over the edge into being an irretrievable fuckup quite a while ago. In fact, they predicted it accurately from the start. This is no reflection whatsoever on the American servicemen and women, whose bravery and skill are phenomenal. It is a reflection on the policymakers who have failed them.

The US Marines are the finest battlefield infantry in the history of the world. The question is whether they have been sent on a fool’s errand.

To speak or act as if the citizens dare not dissent — in other words, as if they must be militarized too — is fascism. My grandfather had to help General Patton fight some very famous fascists. It’s likely yours did also. I think you mean well but you don’t understand the consequences of what you are doing.

You’ve said again and again that a fundamental difference of worldview separates you from the “left” as represented here. You’re right. You assume that anybody who disagrees with you cannot love or understand America. That’s asinine.

Also, half the people you have been arguing with here are British. Their attitude proves nothing.

Supposing pompous nonsense deserves an answer.

Further supposing anyone who is not embracing optimistic uncritical approval of US policies vis a vis Iraq and/or terrorism is a leftist (that would enlarge the definition of leftist from far left to centre-right), and that these far-left to centre-right leftists being bitchy, angry or even schadenfreundlich are thus giving moral aid and comfort to the insurgents and/or terrorists, in post-liberation Iraq or anywhere else, _and_ that these characters give a shit about what American or European far-left to centre-right leftists think.

(Imagine the scene, Falluja, morning, insurgents headquarters, guy logs on to the internet, and after browsing their favourite leftist weblogs and newspapers of choice in 10 different languages, exclaims to fellow comrades:
- Hey dudes, the leftists are with us!
- Really? wow, that’s awesome!
- Blimey, just this morning I was having a crisis of faith, thinking that what we’re doing is maybe completely immoral and counterproductive and tactically useless except to create more destruction and death which offer more post-facto rationalisations for intervention in Iraq as part of anti-terrorist strategies, but then I read a post on Daily Kos, an editorial on Libération and an opinion piece on Haaretz that said the US policy for Iraq is all fucked up, and I found new strenght to continue the fight against the oppressors!
- Yeah brother! Praised be the leftists from the Great and Little Satans! Now I’ll get some tea and croissants, we need to celebrate!]

Questions:

- how did they end up kidnapping and killing some of their leftist supporters, such as European reporters, some of whom working for overtly _communist_ newspapers?

- how come the Iraqi communist party are not only denouncing the insurgents but also among the most strongly opposed to Islamic fundamentalists in Iraq? The Iraqi communist Party doesn’t count as “leftist”, but Michael Moore, who by communist standards would be nearly right wing, does?

- how do these insurgents and/or terrorists screen out their leftist supporters from the pro-bushite patriots when they attack US military? how do they screen out the pro-bushite from the anti-bushites among the Iraqi civilians that end up dead in bombing attacks?

And if we apply this reasoning to 9/11 itself, how did the attackers screen out the leftists and the anti-bushists and the pro-Palestinian and those opposed to US foreign policy in general, from the pro-bushite, pro-Israel, pro-Great Satan folks?

Mw, the only difference between your statement and Ward Churchill’s premise in his essay on 9/11 is that for you, the little Eichmanns are on the left, defined as encompassing everyone who is not happy about US foreign policy.

Think about it.

Feel free to continue seeing all forms of dissent as comfort to the enemy (typically, that notion had to be enforced by dictatorships via repressive and murderous measures, but it’s surely encouraging to see people embrace it spontaneously! a sign of the progress of democracy!). After all, why hold the people who are actually in power accountable for anything they do, when you can easily shift the blame on those who are not in power and whose criticism and opposition is so pathetically ineffective it couldn’t even stop Bush and all his comrades being re-elected with the very same policies?

Now I’ll shut up because the enemy may be listening, and we don’t want anyone in Iraq getting second thoughts about democracy. The notion that dissent equals pro-terrorist treason might make them commit mass suicide. Which objectively wouldn’t be a good start for liberated Iraq.

The only realistic ones at the moment, with the growing insurgency threatening to turn into civil war. Democracy, real democracy, is not imposed from above; it has to develop from below, from a general and universal committment to the instituions and habits of thought necessary for it to survive.

This makes Iran an interesting case – a theocratic democracy that may be evolving into a real democracy. I hope Iraq can be so lucky.

No chance at all of it ending more like its neighbor, Turkey (you know, the one being considered for EU membership)?

Remember what I said about an ignorance of history? Turkey didn’t develop a democracy overnight; the Republic was due to Ataturk, a strongman who seized power through a breakaway parliament in 1923. He stifled dissent, exiled critics, and cracked down on the Kurds. Turkey has suffered three military coups and countless incidents of repression, torture and outright massacre.

http://www.slate.com/id/2113446/