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	<title>Comments on: Gresham&#8217;s Law and Blogging</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: ogged</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63507</link>
		<dc:creator>ogged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63507</guid>
		<description>One way in which it might remain self-stabilizing is that sites selling links will themselves (I assume) become less popular and less linked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One way in which it might remain self-stabilizing is that sites selling links will themselves (I assume) become less popular and less linked.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63508</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63508</guid>
		<description>&gt; The standard economist’s way of 
&gt; dealing with all problems is to 
&gt; advise (i) setting up a system of 
&gt; property rights so that (ii) 
&gt;someone controls each resource of 
&gt; value and make sure that (iii) that
&gt;  someone has the incentives to 
&gt; properly husband the resource and 
&gt; ensure it finds its way to its most
&gt; valuable use.

Funny, because that is the exact opposite of how the Internet developed:  it was designed and built with government money by graduate students working for pennies who didn&#039;t try to lock up the &quot;intellictual property&quot; for themselves (the way biology researchers do today).  It was then  given away for free at a time when this was thought to be the appropriate course of action for university research, particularly that funded by the public.

Then the Internet grew to popularity largely on the back of tools developed by the GNU project under the General Public License (GPL) and CERN (another public entity with a &quot;gift culture&quot;).

Finally a very large portion of the Internet is today supported by Linux-based systems, Linux(tm) being another tool built under the umbrella of that pesky ole GPL.

How does that history fit in with the economists&#039; desire to monitize everything?

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> The standard economist&#8217;s way of<br />
> dealing with all problems is to<br />
> advise (i) setting up a system of<br />
> property rights so that (ii)<br />
>someone controls each resource of<br />
> value and make sure that (iii) that<br />
>  someone has the incentives to<br />
> properly husband the resource and<br />
> ensure it finds its way to its most<br />
> valuable use.</p>

	<p>Funny, because that is the exact opposite of how the Internet developed:  it was designed and built with government money by graduate students working for pennies who didn&#8217;t try to lock up the &#8220;intellictual property&#8221; for themselves (the way biology researchers do today).  It was then  given away for free at a time when this was thought to be the appropriate course of action for university research, particularly that funded by the public.</p>

	<p>Then the Internet grew to popularity largely on the back of tools developed by the <span class="caps">GNU</span> project under the General Public License (GPL) and <span class="caps">CERN </span>(another public entity with a &#8220;gift culture&#8221;).</p>

	<p>Finally a very large portion of the Internet is today supported by Linux-based systems, Linux&#8482; being another tool built under the umbrella of that pesky ole <span class="caps">GPL</span>.</p>

	<p>How does that history fit in with the economists&#8217; desire to monitize everything?</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: MQ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63509</link>
		<dc:creator>MQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63509</guid>
		<description>Why do you think the blogsphere works well?  There are great things about it, but they all come from the basic infrastructure of the web -- that it&#039;s cheap to set up sites and easy to communicate.  But in terms of the information exchanges within the blogsphere itself: a lot of the most popular blogs (e.g. instapundit) are complete crap.  IMO the blogsphere works about as well in selecting and promoting quality information as other market-based information systems, like unregulated commercial television, do.  That is to say, not very well at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why do you think the blogsphere works well?  There are great things about it, but they all come from the basic infrastructure of the web&#8212;that it&#8217;s cheap to set up sites and easy to communicate.  But in terms of the information exchanges within the blogsphere itself: a lot of the most popular blogs (e.g. instapundit) are complete crap.  <span class="caps">IMO</span> the blogsphere works about as well in selecting and promoting quality information as other market-based information systems, like unregulated commercial television, do.  That is to say, not very well at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63510</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63510</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a problem with your term &quot;interestingness,&quot; Henry, that somewhat vitiates your discussion here.  The problem is measured by the difference between &quot;interestingness&quot; and &quot;relevance.&quot;&lt;p&gt;The conceptual leap made by Google was to recognize, in the structure of the Web link (a marriage of resource-pointing behavior with keywordish description), an opportunity to analyze, across the information space, the existing association of resources with intelligence about them.  That&#039;s an analysis of &lt;em&gt;relevance&lt;/em&gt;:  simplistically, the more pages associate a given resource with a given bit of description, the likelier it is that the resource is relevant to the bit of description.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;To treat links as bloggers do, as an attentional currency&#8212;ideally, a measure of &lt;em&gt;interestingness&lt;/em&gt;&#8212;follows a different conceptual model from Google&#039;s, though, even if both can be made subject to similar attacks meant to distort the information space.  &quot;Reciprocity&quot; is the chief difference:  the link, in the Google model, isn&#039;t reciprocal; it ends at the pointed-to resource.  Where links are treated as currency, though, reciprocity&#8212;rather than pointing-to&#8212;is the fundamental gesture.  &quot;Interestingness&quot; may or may not be an artifact of the link-exchange, but it&#039;s only an artifact, not part of the structure of the exchange.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In other words, your notion that &quot;the relationship between links and interestingness&quot; might be in danger of breaking isn&#039;t persuasive to me, because I think the relationship was always-already broken as soon as links became currency.  And while the blogosphere does, indeed, reliably &lt;em&gt;produce&lt;/em&gt; interestingness as an artifact of link exchange, link exchange is a wildly unreliable &lt;em&gt;measure&lt;/em&gt; of interestingness within the blog space.  In fact, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;power-law effect&lt;/a&gt; in social networks pretty much guarantees that, as it expands, the link structure of the blogosphere will become less and less reliable as an index of good/interesting:  necessarily, more and more such stuff is going to languish in the tail of the distribution.  Flogrollers, in that sense, are already (as it were) behind the curve:  they can&#039;t distort the picture more than the network effect already has, and will continue to.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think there&#8217;s a problem with your term &#8220;interestingness,&#8221; Henry, that somewhat vitiates your discussion here.  The problem is measured by the difference between &#8220;interestingness&#8221; and &#8220;relevance.&#8221;</p><p>The conceptual leap made by Google was to recognize, in the structure of the Web link (a marriage of resource-pointing behavior with keywordish description), an opportunity to analyze, across the information space, the existing association of resources with intelligence about them.  That&#8217;s an analysis of <em>relevance</em>:  simplistically, the more pages associate a given resource with a given bit of description, the likelier it is that the resource is relevant to the bit of description.</p><p>To treat links as bloggers do, as an attentional currency&mdash;ideally, a measure of <em>interestingness</em>&mdash;follows a different conceptual model from Google&#8217;s, though, even if both can be made subject to similar attacks meant to distort the information space.  &#8220;Reciprocity&#8221; is the chief difference:  the link, in the Google model, isn&#8217;t reciprocal; it ends at the pointed-to resource.  Where links are treated as currency, though, reciprocity&mdash;rather than pointing-to&mdash;is the fundamental gesture.  &#8220;Interestingness&#8221; may or may not be an artifact of the link-exchange, but it&#8217;s only an artifact, not part of the structure of the exchange.</p><p>In other words, your notion that &#8220;the relationship between links and interestingness&#8221; might be in danger of breaking isn&#8217;t persuasive to me, because I think the relationship was always-already broken as soon as links became currency.  And while the blogosphere does, indeed, reliably <em>produce</em> interestingness as an artifact of link exchange, link exchange is a wildly unreliable <em>measure</em> of interestingness within the blog space.  In fact, the <a href="http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html" rel="nofollow">power-law effect</a> in social networks pretty much guarantees that, as it expands, the link structure of the blogosphere will become less and less reliable as an index of good/interesting:  necessarily, more and more such stuff is going to languish in the tail of the distribution.  Flogrollers, in that sense, are already (as it were) behind the curve:  they can&#8217;t distort the picture more than the network effect already has, and will continue to.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63511</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63511</guid>
		<description>Michael

That&#039;s a really quite interesting argument that I&#039;ll have to think about (although I do acknowledge reciprocity as a distorting influence in link cartels etc). One important caveat though - Dan Drezner and I have done research which suggests that links among political bloggers have a lognormal distribution rather than a power law. The implication of this is that we don&#039;t have a simple rich get richer model of network growth - it _is_ possible for quality new blogs to break in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s a really quite interesting argument that I&#8217;ll have to think about (although I do acknowledge reciprocity as a distorting influence in link cartels etc). One important caveat though &#8211; Dan Drezner and I have done research which suggests that links among political bloggers have a lognormal distribution rather than a power law. The implication of this is that we don&#8217;t have a simple rich get richer model of network growth &#8211; it <em>is</em> possible for quality new blogs to break in.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63512</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63512</guid>
		<description>WOuld it help your thought process to consider the Googles and Technorati, Bloglines and Blogdex&#039;s of the world as the aggregator, and the Blogs themselves as content providers?

Here&#039;s the nut of it; Consider the style:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt; &quot;I found this interesting&quot; (Insert link, insert snarky comment, fade to tagline) &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is this content, aggregation, or both?

To my mind this is content provision, but that&#039;s me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>WOuld it help your thought process to consider the Googles and Technorati, Bloglines and Blogdex&#8217;s of the world as the aggregator, and the Blogs themselves as content providers?</p>

	<p>Here&#8217;s the nut of it; Consider the style:<br />
<blockquote><em> &#8220;I found this interesting&#8221; (Insert link, insert snarky comment, fade to tagline) </em></blockquote></p>

	<p>Is this content, aggregation, or both?</p>

	<p>To my mind this is content provision, but that&#8217;s me.</p>
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		<title>By: anno-nymous</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63513</link>
		<dc:creator>anno-nymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63513</guid>
		<description>&quot;Interestingness&quot;: Interest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Interestingness&#8221;: Interest?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Clarke</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63514</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63514</guid>
		<description>Well, selling links woud at least change the subtext of that idiotic boyblog meme from &quot;Where Are All The Women Bloggers (who someone in my in-group finds interesting)&quot; to &quot;Where Are All The Women Bloggers (with an advertising budget).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, selling links woud at least change the subtext of that idiotic boyblog meme from &#8220;Where Are All The Women Bloggers (who someone in my in-group finds interesting)&#8221; to &#8220;Where Are All The Women Bloggers (with an advertising budget).&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: HP</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63515</link>
		<dc:creator>HP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63515</guid>
		<description>There are something like 5 - 7 million blogs out there. Only a fraction of them constitute the politics and debate blogs that we commonly think of as &quot;The Blogosphere.&quot; A link on, say, LiveJournal or Xanga is often less an indicator of &quot;interestingness&quot; than a map of social relationships or identities. 

Then there are special-interest blogs where the total community&#039;s collective judgement is unlikely to swing Google or Technorati one way or another, but provides immediate value in creating shared knowledge among people with arcane interests that aren&#039;t being served locally. 

It seems that a theory of blog economy would have to extend beyond the newsblogs and poliblogs and debateblogs to encompass, oh, I don&#039;t know, hummel figurine blogs and Swedish sexploitation film blogs and drawing-bible-stories-on-grains-of-rice blogs and . . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are something like 5 &#8211; 7 million blogs out there. Only a fraction of them constitute the politics and debate blogs that we commonly think of as &#8220;The Blogosphere.&#8221; A link on, say, LiveJournal or Xanga is often less an indicator of &#8220;interestingness&#8221; than a map of social relationships or identities.</p>

	<p>Then there are special-interest blogs where the total community&#8217;s collective judgement is unlikely to swing Google or Technorati one way or another, but provides immediate value in creating shared knowledge among people with arcane interests that aren&#8217;t being served locally.</p>

	<p>It seems that a theory of blog economy would have to extend beyond the newsblogs and poliblogs and debateblogs to encompass, oh, I don&#8217;t know, hummel figurine blogs and Swedish sexploitation film blogs and drawing-bible-stories-on-grains-of-rice blogs and . . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63516</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63516</guid>
		<description>&quot;we don’t have a simple rich get richer model of network growth&quot;

Well, maybe a complex rich get richer model of network growth? That is, the power law curve is only a rough approximation. Its best application is in debunking the blog-triumphalism of some evangelists (along with the concomitant let-them-eat-cake cruelty, that if you&#039;re poor, I mean unread, it must be because you&#039;re shiftless and lazy, since there is such abundant opportunity in blogotopia ...). But it&#039;s certainly not the last word. There&#039;s &quot;ecological shifts&quot; which provide lottery-like opportunities for break-outs from the bottom - for example,  an Iraqi who favors the US occupation may suddenly find himself with a very large audience. And established pundits can bring much of their audience with them when starting a blog. Political blogs are arguably experiencing a kind of gold-rush right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;we don&#8217;t have a simple rich get richer model of network growth&#8221;</p>

	<p>Well, maybe a complex rich get richer model of network growth? That is, the power law curve is only a rough approximation. Its best application is in debunking the blog-triumphalism of some evangelists (along with the concomitant let-them-eat-cake cruelty, that if you&#8217;re poor, I mean unread, it must be because you&#8217;re shiftless and lazy, since there is such abundant opportunity in blogotopia &#8230;). But it&#8217;s certainly not the last word. There&#8217;s &#8220;ecological shifts&#8221; which provide lottery-like opportunities for break-outs from the bottom &#8211; for example,  an Iraqi who favors the US occupation may suddenly find himself with a very large audience. And established pundits can bring much of their audience with them when starting a blog. Political blogs are arguably experiencing a kind of gold-rush right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Rofer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63517</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Rofer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63517</guid>
		<description>I recognize the common acceptance of links as the currency of the blogosphere, but my mental model (very much a work in progress) has more relationship to Michael&#039;s and bithead&#039;s.

Links are a measure of popularity, which sometimes may be correlated with &quot;interestingness.&quot; This may or may not say anything about content, and indeed sites with many links are found all over the political/social spectrum.

Google and other search engines are getting better at delivering what a person is actually looking for, provided that person can choose a few appropriate words, but they do not evaluate content for whether it makes sense or other details.

Bloggers search the internet in selective ways and link to what is within their definition of &quot;interestingness.&quot; If you find a blog you like, you can rely on that blog to deliver some of what you&#039;re looking for on the Web. If others haven&#039;t found the blog yet or don&#039;t share your viewpoint, then the blog won&#039;t have their links.

Bloggers also provide content, frequently in a particular niche. I like to write on scientific topics that are mangled by the media, for example, or new scientific findings that could be of general interest but probably won&#039;t be picked up by the media, along with nuclear nonproliferation. This kind of material may or may not contain links. I link to reference material, or recent, fairly obscure, sources rather than other blogs in posts of this kind.

Blogs can be both content providers and &quot;interestingness&quot; aggregators at a level above the search engines. Links have little to do with this. And Gresham&#039;s law really does work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I recognize the common acceptance of links as the currency of the blogosphere, but my mental model (very much a work in progress) has more relationship to Michael&#8217;s and bithead&#8217;s.</p>

	<p>Links are a measure of popularity, which sometimes may be correlated with &#8220;interestingness.&#8221; This may or may not say anything about content, and indeed sites with many links are found all over the political/social spectrum.</p>

	<p>Google and other search engines are getting better at delivering what a person is actually looking for, provided that person can choose a few appropriate words, but they do not evaluate content for whether it makes sense or other details.</p>

	<p>Bloggers search the internet in selective ways and link to what is within their definition of &#8220;interestingness.&#8221; If you find a blog you like, you can rely on that blog to deliver some of what you&#8217;re looking for on the Web. If others haven&#8217;t found the blog yet or don&#8217;t share your viewpoint, then the blog won&#8217;t have their links.</p>

	<p>Bloggers also provide content, frequently in a particular niche. I like to write on scientific topics that are mangled by the media, for example, or new scientific findings that could be of general interest but probably won&#8217;t be picked up by the media, along with nuclear nonproliferation. This kind of material may or may not contain links. I link to reference material, or recent, fairly obscure, sources rather than other blogs in posts of this kind.</p>

	<p>Blogs can be both content providers and &#8220;interestingness&#8221; aggregators at a level above the search engines. Links have little to do with this. And Gresham&#8217;s law really does work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Garfunkel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63518</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Garfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63518</guid>
		<description>What fun is it agonize over the economy of links without suggesting some sort of remedies (short of transferring them to privatized accounts or a stop-loss program)?

One, banish the blogroll from the front page of a blog (set it up on bloglines instead). There&#039;s a subtle difference between &lt;i&gt;what I read&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;what my readers should read&lt;/i&gt;. It doesn&#039;t take an economist to point out that scarcity has a value. The less links you have, the better. It was nice to hear Jay Rosen concede this point at &lt;a href=&quot;http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/webcred&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;webcred&lt;/a&gt; conference when I pressed his thinking on it. (BTW, Henry, I brought your paper up on-screen at the conference when countering Winer&#039;s claim that &quot;the media doesn&#039;t read blogs.&quot;)

Second, qualify your links, not based on topic, but what you think of them. As any blogger would say, transparency is the best policy (at least, for other people.)

And third, wouldn&#039;t it be a gas if bloglines started releasing data about how frequently people scan the blogs-- and compare them to their own qualifications?  I wrote this up &lt;a href=&quot;http://civilities.net/SocialBookmarking&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in a little more depth&lt;/a&gt; a couple of months back-- and that was before Seth &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/000755.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;coined the phrase&lt;/a&gt; &quot;love for the linklorn.&quot;

I&#039;m not too worried about the power law-- sorry, logarithmic law-- I think we&#039;re still under a bit of a shakeout... especially when people have to upgrade from MovableType to the next generation of social software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What fun is it agonize over the economy of links without suggesting some sort of remedies (short of transferring them to privatized accounts or a stop-loss program)?</p>

	<p>One, banish the blogroll from the front page of a blog (set it up on bloglines instead). There&#8217;s a subtle difference between <i>what I read</i> and <i>what my readers should read</i>. It doesn&#8217;t take an economist to point out that scarcity has a value. The less links you have, the better. It was nice to hear Jay Rosen concede this point at <a href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/webcred" rel="nofollow">webcred</a> conference when I pressed his thinking on it. (BTW, Henry, I brought your paper up on-screen at the conference when countering Winer&#8217;s claim that &#8220;the media doesn&#8217;t read blogs.&#8221;)</p>

	<p>Second, qualify your links, not based on topic, but what you think of them. As any blogger would say, transparency is the best policy (at least, for other people.)</p>

	<p>And third, wouldn&#8217;t it be a gas if bloglines started releasing data about how frequently people scan the blogs&#8212;and compare them to their own qualifications?  I wrote this up <a href="http://civilities.net/SocialBookmarking" rel="nofollow">in a little more depth</a> a couple of months back&#8212;and that was before Seth <a href="http://www.sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/000755.html" rel="nofollow">coined the phrase</a> &#8220;love for the linklorn.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not too worried about the power law&#8212;sorry, logarithmic law&#8212;I think we&#8217;re still under a bit of a shakeout&#8230; especially when people have to upgrade from MovableType to the next generation of social software.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63519</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63519</guid>
		<description>Michael is making a good point about the difference between relevance and interestingness.  It reflects some long running issues in the information retrieval world about the difference between finding relevant documents and finding answers.

No technical solution is possible using the approach Google and other IR systems have taken to date.  None: none now, none later, and I&#039;m pretty sure none ever.  There is no algorithm capable of making the required distinction using exclusively information about the structure of the web - at least so long as the people who produce web materials are aware, even partially, of the mechanisms used by IR services.  I can&#039;t prove this rigorously, but I suspect that it could be proven rigorously as a variation of the Halting Problem proof.  All Google can do is run the Red Queen&#039;s Race: try to devise new filtering mechanisms faster than the spammers can reverse engineer them.

The only alternative is to use mechanisms which have access to information other than the structure of &#039;Net information.  There are a number of those, and research continues, but to date there has been no satisfactory success.  The best results to date have all involved retreating from process automation and using some quantity of human labour to maintain database quality.  This is too expensive to be satisfactory, and where it is being tried, it is not organised on a large enough scale to help.

I suspect the nature of the problem precludes a firm with the kind of technical orientation and business model of Google from resolving the challenge of link spam and link spuriousness in a comprehensive way.  I&#039;m not sure where to look for a solution.  My own field touches on some of these areas, and if I was a gambling man, I&#039;d look at research into automated question answering for some answers.  But I don&#039;t think waiting for the free market to create a technical solution is really going to work any better here than it has for automatic translation or other problems that highlight the difficulty of modelling the behaviour of agents capable of modelling their modellers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael is making a good point about the difference between relevance and interestingness.  It reflects some long running issues in the information retrieval world about the difference between finding relevant documents and finding answers.</p>

	<p>No technical solution is possible using the approach Google and other IR systems have taken to date.  None: none now, none later, and I&#8217;m pretty sure none ever.  There is no algorithm capable of making the required distinction using exclusively information about the structure of the web &#8211; at least so long as the people who produce web materials are aware, even partially, of the mechanisms used by IR services.  I can&#8217;t prove this rigorously, but I suspect that it could be proven rigorously as a variation of the Halting Problem proof.  All Google can do is run the Red Queen&#8217;s Race: try to devise new filtering mechanisms faster than the spammers can reverse engineer them.</p>

	<p>The only alternative is to use mechanisms which have access to information other than the structure of &#8216;Net information.  There are a number of those, and research continues, but to date there has been no satisfactory success.  The best results to date have all involved retreating from process automation and using some quantity of human labour to maintain database quality.  This is too expensive to be satisfactory, and where it is being tried, it is not organised on a large enough scale to help.</p>

	<p>I suspect the nature of the problem precludes a firm with the kind of technical orientation and business model of Google from resolving the challenge of link spam and link spuriousness in a comprehensive way.  I&#8217;m not sure where to look for a solution.  My own field touches on some of these areas, and if I was a gambling man, I&#8217;d look at research into automated question answering for some answers.  But I don&#8217;t think waiting for the free market to create a technical solution is really going to work any better here than it has for automatic translation or other problems that highlight the difficulty of modelling the behaviour of agents capable of modelling their modellers.</p>
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		<title>By: Roxanne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63520</link>
		<dc:creator>Roxanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63520</guid>
		<description>I spend alot of time thinking about the revenue model for blogs. It seems to me that selling a link isn&#039;t that far away from selling edit. As an ascendant medium trying to gain credibility in the greater public sphere, I&#039;m not certain we want to go there. Although, amazon.com, etc. have already bled the line between legit edit and advertorial ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I spend alot of time thinking about the revenue model for blogs. It seems to me that selling a link isn&#8217;t that far away from selling edit. As an ascendant medium trying to gain credibility in the greater public sphere, I&#8217;m not certain we want to go there. Although, amazon.com, etc. have already bled the line between legit edit and advertorial &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: derek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/comment-page-1/#comment-63521</link>
		<dc:creator>derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/24/greshams-law-and-blogging/#comment-63521</guid>
		<description>michael writes: 
&lt;i&gt;the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;power-law effect&lt;/a&gt; in social networks pretty much guarantees that, as it expands, the link structure of the blogosphere will become less and less reliable as an index of good/interesting&lt;/i&gt;

I just want to say, what possessed the writer of that link to illustrate his power-law graphs using linear-linear scales?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>michael writes:<br />
<i>the <a href="http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html" rel="nofollow">power-law effect</a> in social networks pretty much guarantees that, as it expands, the link structure of the blogosphere will become less and less reliable as an index of good/interesting</i></p>

	<p>I just want to say, what possessed the writer of that link to illustrate his power-law graphs using linear-linear scales?</p>
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