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	<title>Comments on: Adjustable rate mortgages</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: David Weigel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63418</link>
		<dc:creator>David Weigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63418</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not quite true that in America, if &quot;interest rates go down, you can simply take out a new loan and use it to pay off the old one.&quot;  Well, you can, but it&#039;s usually not a good idea.  The fees charged by new lenders are quite high:  title searches, insurance, random profit disguised as &quot;document fees&quot;.  These negate the advantages of getting the new loan.  Last time I figured for me, the new interest rate had to be at least 1% less than the old one to be worthwhile, and with current rates wobbling in the same range for the last couple years, there can&#039;t be much incentive for mortgage holders to flop when tiny changes in the market take place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s not quite true that in America, if &#8220;interest rates go down, you can simply take out a new loan and use it to pay off the old one.&#8221;  Well, you can, but it&#8217;s usually not a good idea.  The fees charged by new lenders are quite high:  title searches, insurance, random profit disguised as &#8220;document fees&#8221;.  These negate the advantages of getting the new loan.  Last time I figured for me, the new interest rate had to be at least 1% less than the old one to be worthwhile, and with current rates wobbling in the same range for the last couple years, there can&#8217;t be much incentive for mortgage holders to flop when tiny changes in the market take place.</p>
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		<title>By: James J Murray</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63419</link>
		<dc:creator>James J Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63419</guid>
		<description>It all depends on the deal you can find. My family (poly fmf triad located in Kansas City, MO) is about to refinance our house to a 5 yr ARM whose rate is locked in for that duration. We&#039;ll be paying off about $40k in miscellaneous debt, and our new payment will be about $200/month less, freeing up a total of roughly $1200/month. Our only cost is the appraisal ($350). Our rate is dropping from 7 to 5%. And in five years, we&#039;ll see what the situation is and deal with it then (assuming there is a US economy at that point).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It all depends on the deal you can find. My family (poly fmf triad located in Kansas City, MO) is about to refinance our house to a 5 yr <span class="caps">ARM</span> whose rate is locked in for that duration. We&#8217;ll be paying off about $40k in miscellaneous debt, and our new payment will be about $200/month less, freeing up a total of roughly $1200/month. Our only cost is the appraisal ($350). Our rate is dropping from 7 to 5%. And in five years, we&#8217;ll see what the situation is and deal with it then (assuming there is a US economy at that point).</p>
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		<title>By: rdg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63420</link>
		<dc:creator>rdg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63420</guid>
		<description>Anyone on an ARM in the US today is making a huge gamble, considering the precarious position of American interest rates. 

One hiccup from Asian central banks and the Fed will be forced to jack up the base rate. Any sudden shock to the value of the dollar would have the same effect. 

With interest rates as low as they are right now, the small benefit obtained by choosing an ARM hardly makes up for the potential risk of an economic crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Anyone on an <span class="caps">ARM</span> in the US today is making a huge gamble, considering the precarious position of American interest rates.</p>

	<p>One hiccup from Asian central banks and the Fed will be forced to jack up the base rate. Any sudden shock to the value of the dollar would have the same effect.</p>

	<p>With interest rates as low as they are right now, the small benefit obtained by choosing an <span class="caps">ARM</span> hardly makes up for the potential risk of an economic crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Cand</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63421</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Cand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63421</guid>
		<description>I always wondered why, in the UK, fixed rate mortgages are very rare and variable ones are standard, while accross the channel in France it&#039;s the exact opposite.  My guess is that a massive transfer of risk slowly occured, from the banks on the population. Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always wondered why, in the UK, fixed rate mortgages are very rare and variable ones are standard, while accross the channel in France it&#8217;s the exact opposite.  My guess is that a massive transfer of risk slowly occured, from the banks on the population. Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Jussi Hakala</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63422</link>
		<dc:creator>Jussi Hakala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63422</guid>
		<description>Variable mortgages are extremely risky for the individual, especially in places where rates are used for political purposes. I wouldn&#039;t buy where politicians control rates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Variable mortgages are extremely risky for the individual, especially in places where rates are used for political purposes. I wouldn&#8217;t buy where politicians control rates.</p>
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		<title>By: CDS</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63423</link>
		<dc:creator>CDS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63423</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d tend to take the line with rdg and jussi that ARM&#039;s are risky, especially given the current economic climate.  It seems people have hopped on the boat over the past few years due to the low interest rates, but it also seems short sighted as interest rates can&#039;t stay low forever (unless the economy stays in the tank forever, and obviously then there&#039;s a whole new set of problems).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d tend to take the line with rdg and jussi that <span class="caps">ARM</span>&#8217;s are risky, especially given the current economic climate.  It seems people have hopped on the boat over the past few years due to the low interest rates, but it also seems short sighted as interest rates can&#8217;t stay low forever (unless the economy stays in the tank forever, and obviously then there&#8217;s a whole new set of problems).</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63424</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63424</guid>
		<description>Scenario 1:  you get a fixed rate loan.  Rates stay the same or go down.  The housing market in your area stays stable or increases somewhat.  You decide to move.  Outcome:  you have &quot;lost&quot; some potential profit.

Scenario 2:  you get an ARM.  Inflation jumps to 10%, interest rates to 15-20%.  The housing market in your area tanks.  You are forced to sell and cannot find a buyer.  Outcome:  you have lost (no quotes) your life.

Scenario 2 sound far-fetched?  Essentially that happened to my father in the 1970s, and plenty of other people we knew.  

Greenspan&#039;s advocacy of ARMs is absolutely disgusing and immoral:  another attempt to shift the risks of our society to those who can least afford them and suck the money out of their threadbare wallets to line the pockets of the Trumps, Bushes, Lays, etc.

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scenario 1:  you get a fixed rate loan.  Rates stay the same or go down.  The housing market in your area stays stable or increases somewhat.  You decide to move.  Outcome:  you have &#8220;lost&#8221; some potential profit.</p>

	<p>Scenario 2:  you get an <span class="caps">ARM</span>.  Inflation jumps to 10%, interest rates to 15-20%.  The housing market in your area tanks.  You are forced to sell and cannot find a buyer.  Outcome:  you have lost (no quotes) your life.</p>

	<p>Scenario 2 sound far-fetched?  Essentially that happened to my father in the 1970s, and plenty of other people we knew.</p>

	<p>Greenspan&#8217;s advocacy of ARMs is absolutely disgusing and immoral:  another attempt to shift the risks of our society to those who can least afford them and suck the money out of their threadbare wallets to line the pockets of the Trumps, Bushes, Lays, etc.</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63425</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63425</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I always wondered why, in the UK, fixed rate mortgages are very rare and variable ones are standard, while accross the channel in France it’s the exact opposite.&lt;/i&gt;

Fixed rate mortgages aren&#039;t that rare in the UK any more; they&#039;re about a quarter to a third of the stock and more like 40% of the flow of new deals.

The reason why UK developed along this line was that the UK mortgage market grew out of the building society movement.  The building societies made mortgage loans out of their own deposits, and in general as small local institutions they weren&#039;t at all well placed to manage interest rate risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I always wondered why, in the UK, fixed rate mortgages are very rare and variable ones are standard, while accross the channel in France it&#8217;s the exact opposite.</i></p>

	<p>Fixed rate mortgages aren&#8217;t that rare in the UK any more; they&#8217;re about a quarter to a third of the stock and more like 40% of the flow of new deals.</p>

	<p>The reason why UK developed along this line was that the UK mortgage market grew out of the building society movement.  The building societies made mortgage loans out of their own deposits, and in general as small local institutions they weren&#8217;t at all well placed to manage interest rate risk.</p>
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		<title>By: y81</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63426</link>
		<dc:creator>y81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63426</guid>
		<description>Another issue:  in many parts of the U.S., home mortgage loans are either totally or effectively &quot;nonrecourse,&quot; meaning that the lender&#039;s recovery is limited to the mortgaged property (the house); the lender may not seek to recover its loan from other assets of the borrower.  So there is a further embedded option in the mortgage transaction that needs to be priced:  you can always put the house to the lender for the mortgage balance.  If you start out borrowing 80% of the purchase price, your downside risk is substantially limited.  I don&#039;t know if most academic analyses have taken account of this feature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another issue:  in many parts of the U.S., home mortgage loans are either totally or effectively &#8220;nonrecourse,&#8221; meaning that the lender&#8217;s recovery is limited to the mortgaged property (the house); the lender may not seek to recover its loan from other assets of the borrower.  So there is a further embedded option in the mortgage transaction that needs to be priced:  you can always put the house to the lender for the mortgage balance.  If you start out borrowing 80% of the purchase price, your downside risk is substantially limited.  I don&#8217;t know if most academic analyses have taken account of this feature.</p>
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		<title>By: jussi hakala</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63427</link>
		<dc:creator>jussi hakala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63427</guid>
		<description>&quot;The building societies made mortgage loans out of their own deposits, and in general as small local institutions they weren’t at all well placed to manage interest rate risk&quot;

Especially not if rates were politicially controlled, Daniel, which they still are in some way, aren&#039;t they? 

One wonders how UK home-owners reacted when rates were upwards adjusted several times in one day just to rescue the government ERM policy (which they couldn&#039;t).

It seems to be risky owning property in the UK, if you don&#039;t mind my saying so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The building societies made mortgage loans out of their own deposits, and in general as small local institutions they weren&#8217;t at all well placed to manage interest rate risk&#8221;</p>

	<p>Especially not if rates were politicially controlled, Daniel, which they still are in some way, aren&#8217;t they?</p>

	<p>One wonders how UK home-owners reacted when rates were upwards adjusted several times in one day just to rescue the government <span class="caps">ERM</span> policy (which they couldn&#8217;t).</p>

	<p>It seems to be risky owning property in the UK, if you don&#8217;t mind my saying so.</p>
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		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63428</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63428</guid>
		<description>I have a 7/1 arm on my house.  It has a lifetime APR cap or ~8% so even if intrest rate syrocket I&#039;m not hosed.

I picked it because the terribly low monthy payments allow me to contribute much more pricipal every month so that in theory by the time it start fluctuating I will have payed off a good chunk of the principal.  I think that makes quite a bit of sense, but I do agree that many people may be lured in by the low rates unaware of the overalll danger that they can pose if you choose to pay the minimum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have a 7/1 arm on my house.  It has a lifetime <span class="caps">APR</span> cap or ~8% so even if intrest rate syrocket I&#8217;m not hosed.</p>

	<p>I picked it because the terribly low monthy payments allow me to contribute much more pricipal every month so that in theory by the time it start fluctuating I will have payed off a good chunk of the principal.  I think that makes quite a bit of sense, but I do agree that many people may be lured in by the low rates unaware of the overalll danger that they can pose if you choose to pay the minimum.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63429</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63429</guid>
		<description>&gt; you can always put the house to the
&gt;  lender for the mortgage balance. 
&gt; If you start out borrowing 80% of 
&gt; the purchase price, your downside 
&gt; risk is substantially limited.

Except that the prices you pay for everything from loans (after the 7-year period) to auto insurance to groceries will go up &lt;a&gt;for the rest of your life&lt;/a&gt;, which is a bit of a cost.

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> you can always put the house to the<br />
>  lender for the mortgage balance.<br />
> If you start out borrowing 80% of<br />
> the purchase price, your downside<br />
> risk is substantially limited.</p>

	<p>Except that the prices you pay for everything from loans (after the 7-year period) to auto insurance to groceries will go up <a>for the rest of your life</a>, which is a bit of a cost.</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Mortgage</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63430</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Mortgage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63430</guid>
		<description>Folks here are overstating the risk of most ARMs.  ARMs (in the U.S., at least) usually feature a beginning phase (5 yrs., say) during which the initial rate is locked in.  After that, there are usually caps as to how much (up or down) the rate can change every year after the beginning phase is over.  Furthermore, there is usually an absolute cap above which the rate cannot rise, no matter what is happening more generally to interest rates.  

One reasons ARMs are attractive is that if they have an initial lower rate, the monthly payments are more affordable.  This means that persons who might otherwise not be able to afford to carry a mortgage can do so.  Since people tend to earn more as they get older, this gives them time to ramp up their incomes so that, when the initial phase is up, they are more capable of making higher payments, if the rate adjusts upwards.  Since owning a home is a great way to generate long-term personal wealth, and if ARMs make owning a home more affordable, they are to be applauded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Folks here are overstating the risk of most ARMs.  ARMs (in the U.S., at least) usually feature a beginning phase (5 yrs., say) during which the initial rate is locked in.  After that, there are usually caps as to how much (up or down) the rate can change every year after the beginning phase is over.  Furthermore, there is usually an absolute cap above which the rate cannot rise, no matter what is happening more generally to interest rates.</p>

	<p>One reasons ARMs are attractive is that if they have an initial lower rate, the monthly payments are more affordable.  This means that persons who might otherwise not be able to afford to carry a mortgage can do so.  Since people tend to earn more as they get older, this gives them time to ramp up their incomes so that, when the initial phase is up, they are more capable of making higher payments, if the rate adjusts upwards.  Since owning a home is a great way to generate long-term personal wealth, and if ARMs make owning a home more affordable, they are to be applauded.</p>
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		<title>By: joel turnipseed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63431</link>
		<dc:creator>joel turnipseed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63431</guid>
		<description>On fixed vs. ARM: doesn&#039;t the average mortgage turn over in five years and don&#039;t most ARMs have a cap as to annual rate increase (usually 1 or 2 percent)? On this, you could pretty easily say that unless you are really risk averse &amp; plan to stay in your house for a long time (or think you might have trouble getting out in rough waters), there&#039;s no big risk to an ARM.

As to all the refinancing, with the exception of the unbelievably-dangerous new ability to borrow up to (or beyond) 100% LTV, I&#039;d much, much rather have my debt rolled up into equity line ARM than to blood-sucking credit card companies&#039; terms. I would think, on this line, that the move to equity debt from other forms of credit is a long-term stabilizing move, no? (Except where, as I said, insanity allows you to borrow more than your house&#039;s value--not to say realty fees, etcetera, if you need to get out.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On fixed vs. <span class="caps">ARM</span>: doesn&#8217;t the average mortgage turn over in five years and don&#8217;t most ARMs have a cap as to annual rate increase (usually 1 or 2 percent)? On this, you could pretty easily say that unless you are really risk averse &#038; plan to stay in your house for a long time (or think you might have trouble getting out in rough waters), there&#8217;s no big risk to an <span class="caps">ARM</span>.</p>

	<p>As to all the refinancing, with the exception of the unbelievably-dangerous new ability to borrow up to (or beyond) 100% <span class="caps">LTV</span>, I&#8217;d much, much rather have my debt rolled up into equity line <span class="caps">ARM</span> than to blood-sucking credit card companies&#8217; terms. I would think, on this line, that the move to equity debt from other forms of credit is a long-term stabilizing move, no? (Except where, as I said, insanity allows you to borrow more than your house&#8217;s value&#8212;not to say realty fees, etcetera, if you need to get out.)</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-63432</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/02/26/adjustable-rate-mortgages/#comment-63432</guid>
		<description>eric&gt;&gt;I have a 7/1 arm on my house. It has a lifetime APR cap or ~8% so even if intrest rate syrocket I’m not hosed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>eric>>I have a 7/1 arm on my house. It has a lifetime <span class="caps">APR</span> cap or ~8% so even if intrest rate syrocket I&#8217;m not hosed.</p>
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