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	<title>Comments on: The chains of debt</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Skippy McGee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63792</link>
		<dc:creator>Skippy McGee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63792</guid>
		<description>&quot;We agreed to mortgage our futures for a bit of time to read and study. It looked like an innocent enough choice.&quot;
	This was hilarious stuff. What you meant was, time to chase girls, get drunk and avoid responsibility or become an adult.
	I usually read two hours a day and I don&#039;t need a government grant to do it, simply the motivation. The majority of competent people in the world are self-educated. When I was in college all I saw was a lot of lazy, nasty whiners hiding out on campus talking about love, beauty and justice so they could try to score with easily fooled girls. When I sat in college dorms at night studying, the rest of the student body was outside working their way through DD-40 malt liquor cans and screaming they wanted to get laid. 
	College is no place to learn anything and it is certainly no decent place to study. Remember, some 80% of the recent class of Harvard graduated &quot;with honors.&quot; Right.
	Let&#039;s strike a pose and pretend to be intellectuals. Most liberals are not very attractive people so it might be the only way they are going to score with the opposite sex, by striding around in togas and pretending to be in search of the good, the true and the beautiful. &quot;Justice, I tell you! This is what I desire! Sheila, let us return together to the dorms and explore one another&#039;s sense of justice, to penetrate this mystery with all the thrust we can muster! Away! Away I say!&quot;
	All liberals deep down are just desperately flawed people looking for dates through subterfuge.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;We agreed to mortgage our futures for a bit of time to read and study. It looked like an innocent enough choice.&#8221;<br />
This was hilarious stuff. What you meant was, time to chase girls, get drunk and avoid responsibility or become an adult.<br />
I usually read two hours a day and I don&#8217;t need a government grant to do it, simply the motivation. The majority of competent people in the world are self-educated. When I was in college all I saw was a lot of lazy, nasty whiners hiding out on campus talking about love, beauty and justice so they could try to score with easily fooled girls. When I sat in college dorms at night studying, the rest of the student body was outside working their way through DD-40 malt liquor cans and screaming they wanted to get laid.<br />
College is no place to learn anything and it is certainly no decent place to study. Remember, some 80% of the recent class of Harvard graduated &#8220;with honors.&#8221; Right.<br />
Let&#8217;s strike a pose and pretend to be intellectuals. Most liberals are not very attractive people so it might be the only way they are going to score with the opposite sex, by striding around in togas and pretending to be in search of the good, the true and the beautiful. &#8220;Justice, I tell you! This is what I desire! Sheila, let us return together to the dorms and explore one another&#8217;s sense of justice, to penetrate this mystery with all the thrust we can muster! Away! Away I say!&#8221;<br />
All liberals deep down are just desperately flawed people looking for dates through subterfuge.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63753</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63753</guid>
		<description>Azad, this is a crucial issue, which I plan to address in a post coming Real Soon Now.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Azad, this is a crucial issue, which I plan to address in a post coming Real Soon Now.</p>
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		<title>By: azad</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63745</link>
		<dc:creator>azad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2005 03:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63745</guid>
		<description>Back to the idea of debt and individuals...
I am wondering about the link between individuals smoothing out their life-time consumption and perhaps incorrect assumptions about the state of their ability to forcast or know about economic changes that would  render their assumptions about and levels current borrowing wrong. Example: major undergraduate borrowing is essentially required of all students nowadays before they can get a job, but the amount required makes them think that their expected future income is higher than what it actually would be, and so their consumption on borrowed funds is much higher than what it originally should be.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Back to the idea of debt and individuals&#8230;<br />
I am wondering about the link between individuals smoothing out their life-time consumption and perhaps incorrect assumptions about the state of their ability to forcast or know about economic changes that would  render their assumptions about and levels current borrowing wrong. Example: major undergraduate borrowing is essentially required of all students nowadays before they can get a job, but the amount required makes them think that their expected future income is higher than what it actually would be, and so their consumption on borrowed funds is much higher than what it originally should be.</p>
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		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63645</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63645</guid>
		<description>Ah...just now, a fairly major Republican office holder (President George W. Bush) &lt;a href=&quot;http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_03_06_atrios_archive.html#111055632826051403&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;insinuated that Social Security privatization opponents are racists&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah&#8230;just now, a fairly major Republican office holder (President George W. Bush) <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_03_06_atrios_archive.html#111055632826051403" rel="nofollow">insinuated that Social Security privatization opponents are racists</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63643</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63643</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another great moment in Republican Party rhetoric:  House Speaker Hastert (no minor position, that---in line for the Presidency and all) referring to George Soros&#039; connections to &quot;drug groups.&quot;

You can &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=hastert+soros+drugs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;google it...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Here&#8217;s another great moment in Republican Party rhetoric:  House Speaker Hastert (no minor position, that&#8212;-in line for the Presidency and all) referring to George Soros&#8217; connections to &#8220;drug groups.&#8221;</p>

	<p>You can <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;q=hastert+soros+drugs" rel="nofollow">google it&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-2/#comment-63633</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-63633</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;james&lt;/b&gt; wrote, &lt;i&gt;In the US, if you’re not nominally religious or you think a foreign entity should direct US policy, you’re in a very small minority. Deal with it.&lt;/i&gt;

Uh, are you referring to the fact that Bush&#039;s foreign policy is clearly being directed by Likud?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>james</b> wrote, <i>In the US, if you&#8217;re not nominally religious or you think a foreign entity should direct US policy, you&#8217;re in a very small minority. Deal with it.</i></p>

	<p>Uh, are you referring to the fact that Bush&#8217;s foreign policy is clearly being directed by Likud?</p>
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		<title>By: cliu</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62437</link>
		<dc:creator>cliu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62437</guid>
		<description>No physical bars needed in this prison -- credit card debt is a &quot;soft cage.&quot; The term is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0918/p20s02-bogn.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Christian Parenti&#039;s &lt;/a&gt; and the title of his 2003 book on Surveillance in the US from Slave Passes to the War on Terror.

For Gilles Deleuze, in &quot;Postscript on Control Societies,&quot; consumer debt is the realization of &quot;virtual confinement.

We are all in a sense invited to enter this virtual prison when we sign on the dotted line of our first student loan -- especially we humanists who had no hope of capitalizing on our degrees. We agreed to mortgage our futures for a bit of time to read and study. It looked like an innocent enough choice.

What should be mentioned too is the number of Americans who are using credit cards to pay medical bills...why the Democrats can&#039;t make hay out of this issue I don&#039;t really understand. Do things have to get much worse before they might get a little better or is perpetual debt peonage to MBNA our destiny?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No physical bars needed in this prison&#8212;credit card debt is a &#8220;soft cage.&#8221; The term is <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0918/p20s02-bogn.html" rel="nofollow"> Christian Parenti&#8217;s </a> and the title of his 2003 book on Surveillance in the US from Slave Passes to the War on Terror.</p>

	<p>For Gilles Deleuze, in &#8220;Postscript on Control Societies,&#8221; consumer debt is the realization of &#8220;virtual confinement.</p>

	<p>We are all in a sense invited to enter this virtual prison when we sign on the dotted line of our first student loan&#8212;especially we humanists who had no hope of capitalizing on our degrees. We agreed to mortgage our futures for a bit of time to read and study. It looked like an innocent enough choice.</p>

	<p>What should be mentioned too is the number of Americans who are using credit cards to pay medical bills&#8230;why the Democrats can&#8217;t make hay out of this issue I don&#8217;t really understand. Do things have to get much worse before they might get a little better or is perpetual debt peonage to <span class="caps">MBNA</span> our destiny?</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62438</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62438</guid>
		<description>Is this another example of the ship of state coercing people into being used as ballast?  Very safe until it capsizes and takes everyone with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is this another example of the ship of state coercing people into being used as ballast?  Very safe until it capsizes and takes everyone with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62439</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62439</guid>
		<description>Kevin Drum points out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_03/005785.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; that the credit card companies now earn &lt;b&gt;half their profits from penalties and late fees&lt;/b&gt;. 

That&#039;s not how a market is supposed to work; that&#039;s not how business is supposed to work. (Why do the Republicans hate capitalism?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kevin Drum points out <a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_03/005785.php" rel="nofollow">here</a> that the credit card companies now earn <b>half their profits from penalties and late fees</b>.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s not how a market is supposed to work; that&#8217;s not how business is supposed to work. (Why do the Republicans hate capitalism?)</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62440</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62440</guid>
		<description>And credit card companies have indeed lobbied hard for this bill. Here is an excerpt from a Forbes magazine piece describing some research on how hard:

http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/20/cz_ic_1120beltway.html

&quot; a careful analysis of campaign contributions and voting patterns on bankruptcy reform by Princeton University&#039;s Howard Rosenthal and Stephen Nunez of Stanford finds that the big financial institutions&#039; money has indeed bought substantial influence, though so far not quite enough. 

While the crucial factor in most decisions by Congress is political ideology--it &quot;correctly classifies over 90% of all roll-call voting decisions in recent Congresses,&quot; according to the academics--voting on bankruptcy reform is something of an exception. When a corporate political action committee writes a member of Congress a check, its odds of getting his vote on the bankruptcy bill rise substantially. &quot;A moderate Democrat receiving $30,000 from the credit-card coalition would have an 80% chance of supporting the House bill as against only a 30% chance if the representative had received no money,&quot; say Rosenthal and Nunez.&quot;

Here is a link to the paper: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=558365</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And credit card companies have indeed lobbied hard for this bill. Here is an excerpt from a Forbes magazine piece describing some research on how hard:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/20/cz_ic_1120beltway.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/20/cz_ic_1120beltway.html</a></p>

	<p>&#8221; a careful analysis of campaign contributions and voting patterns on bankruptcy reform by Princeton University&#8217;s Howard Rosenthal and Stephen Nunez of Stanford finds that the big financial institutions&#8217; money has indeed bought substantial influence, though so far not quite enough.</p>

	<p>While the crucial factor in most decisions by Congress is political ideology&#8212;it &#8220;correctly classifies over 90% of all roll-call voting decisions in recent Congresses,&#8221; according to the academics&#8212;voting on bankruptcy reform is something of an exception. When a corporate political action committee writes a member of Congress a check, its odds of getting his vote on the bankruptcy bill rise substantially. &#8220;A moderate Democrat receiving $30,000 from the credit-card coalition would have an 80% chance of supporting the House bill as against only a 30% chance if the representative had received no money,&#8221; say Rosenthal and Nunez.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Here is a link to the paper: <a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=558365" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=558365</a></p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62441</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62441</guid>
		<description>I agree that, overall, the bankrupcy bill is a bad thing, but people have to stop repeating the &#039;half of all bankruptcies are caused by medical bills&#039; meme just because they *want* it to be true.    The single study reporting that &#039;fact&#039; has been pretty thoroughly debunked -- here, for example:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_02_13-2005_02_19.shtml#1108558247

And yes, I know it&#039;s a &#039;right wing&#039; blogger (and one who supports bankruptcy reform), but that doesn&#039;t make the argument any less thorough or persuasive.  Krugman is pretty slippery on this, saying:

&quot;One recent study found that more than half of bankruptcies are the result of medical emergencies.&quot;

In other words, I&#039;m spreading a meme I know is probably bogus, but useful (a &#039;useful lie&#039;?), while using a formulation that will allow me deniability later (&quot;I said it was only one study and didn&#039;t say I necessarily accepted the findings myself.&quot;)  That&#039;s unworthy, Krugman.

Are bankruptcies caused by misfortune or irresponsible spending?  Yes.  Families live close to the edge with credit card debt and no savings not because there is no other way to get by, but in no small part because they just can&#039;t help buying things they&#039;ve convinced themselves they &#039;need&#039; or &#039;deserve&#039;.  In such situations, it doesn&#039;t take much to push them over the edge.  And part of the reason people are willing to operate close to the edge is that bankruptcy is just not that big a deal--their house is protected, the social stigma is no longer there, and their creditworthiness may actually improve (since creditors know that they can&#039;t file again for seven years).

True story--a relative of a close friend has had medical problems recently.  He was injured and is on disability and his son recently has had some serious medical problems.  The family&#039;s church had a fund-raiser for them and raised $1500...and they spent it all on a big-screen TV (reasoning that since the Dad and son were now stuck at home a lot, they &#039;needed&#039; it and &#039;deserved&#039; it because of all the bad things that had happened).

I, too, have relatives and acquaintances who have low incomes and carry credit-card debt.  I know some of the dumb decisions they make about money.  One, for example, recently needed a new washer and dryer.  Did she buy inexpensive, basic models (which I did when I recently replaced my own--because who cares, we&#039;re talking about laundry)?  Nope, top of the line in both cases--3 or 4 *times* what the basic models would have cost.  Several of us tried to talk her out of it, but got nowhere.  And then, shortly thereafter, she had to borrow $250 from her mother for medical expenses.  Another &#039;medical&#039; bankruptcy in the offing?  Aaarrgh.

We don&#039;t have to pretend that bankruptcies happen to blameless people done in by Dickensian misfortunes to oppose this bill--it&#039;s not even good political strategy.  The reason is that the lower middle class people who &#039;play by the rules&#039;, who carry bag lunches, shop carefully, *don&#039;t* max out their credit cards and *don&#039;t* have to resort to bankruptcy even when misfortunes strike them--these folks know the others and it really burns them to see them getting away with their irresponsible behavior.  It&#039;s not a good thing if responsible people of modest means end up feeling like chumps for exercising restraint.

So it would be better to acknowledge the problems with bankruptcy -- while still opposing a bill that seems to be purely the handiwork of credit card companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree that, overall, the bankrupcy bill is a bad thing, but people have to stop repeating the &#8216;half of all bankruptcies are caused by medical bills&#8217; meme just because they <strong>want</strong> it to be true.    The single study reporting that &#8216;fact&#8217; has been pretty thoroughly debunked&#8212;here, for example:</p>

	<p><a href="http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_02_13-2005_02_19.shtml#1108558247" rel="nofollow">http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_02_13-2005_02_19.shtml#1108558247</a></p>

	<p>And yes, I know it&#8217;s a &#8216;right wing&#8217; blogger (and one who supports bankruptcy reform), but that doesn&#8217;t make the argument any less thorough or persuasive.  Krugman is pretty slippery on this, saying:</p>

	<p>&#8220;One recent study found that more than half of bankruptcies are the result of medical emergencies.&#8221;</p>

	<p>In other words, I&#8217;m spreading a meme I know is probably bogus, but useful (a &#8216;useful lie&#8217;?), while using a formulation that will allow me deniability later (&#8220;I said it was only one study and didn&#8217;t say I necessarily accepted the findings myself.&#8221;)  That&#8217;s unworthy, Krugman.</p>

	<p>Are bankruptcies caused by misfortune or irresponsible spending?  Yes.  Families live close to the edge with credit card debt and no savings not because there is no other way to get by, but in no small part because they just can&#8217;t help buying things they&#8217;ve convinced themselves they &#8216;need&#8217; or &#8216;deserve&#8217;.  In such situations, it doesn&#8217;t take much to push them over the edge.  And part of the reason people are willing to operate close to the edge is that bankruptcy is just not that big a deal&#8212;their house is protected, the social stigma is no longer there, and their creditworthiness may actually improve (since creditors know that they can&#8217;t file again for seven years).</p>

	<p>True story&#8212;a relative of a close friend has had medical problems recently.  He was injured and is on disability and his son recently has had some serious medical problems.  The family&#8217;s church had a fund-raiser for them and raised $1500&#8230;and they spent it all on a big-screen <span class="caps">TV </span>(reasoning that since the Dad and son were now stuck at home a lot, they &#8216;needed&#8217; it and &#8216;deserved&#8217; it because of all the bad things that had happened).</p>

	<p>I, too, have relatives and acquaintances who have low incomes and carry credit-card debt.  I know some of the dumb decisions they make about money.  One, for example, recently needed a new washer and dryer.  Did she buy inexpensive, basic models (which I did when I recently replaced my own&#8212;because who cares, we&#8217;re talking about laundry)?  Nope, top of the line in both cases&#8212;3 or 4 <strong>times</strong> what the basic models would have cost.  Several of us tried to talk her out of it, but got nowhere.  And then, shortly thereafter, she had to borrow $250 from her mother for medical expenses.  Another &#8216;medical&#8217; bankruptcy in the offing?  Aaarrgh.</p>

	<p>We don&#8217;t have to pretend that bankruptcies happen to blameless people done in by Dickensian misfortunes to oppose this bill&#8212;it&#8217;s not even good political strategy.  The reason is that the lower middle class people who &#8216;play by the rules&#8217;, who carry bag lunches, shop carefully, <strong>don&#8217;t</strong> max out their credit cards and <strong>don&#8217;t</strong> have to resort to bankruptcy even when misfortunes strike them&#8212;these folks know the others and it really burns them to see them getting away with their irresponsible behavior.  It&#8217;s not a good thing if responsible people of modest means end up feeling like chumps for exercising restraint.</p>

	<p>So it would be better to acknowledge the problems with bankruptcy&#8212;while still opposing a bill that seems to be purely the handiwork of credit card companies.</p>
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		<title>By: A New York City Math Teacher</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62442</link>
		<dc:creator>A New York City Math Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62442</guid>
		<description>A single question should have been asked before this bill was voted on:
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Are fattened dividend checks worth the immiseration of millions of people?&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is debt-slavery worth the &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A single question should have been asked before this bill was voted on:<br />
</p><p><i>Are fattened dividend checks worth the immiseration of millions of people?</i></p>

	<p></p><p>Is debt-slavery worth the </p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62443</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62443</guid>
		<description>&quot;So it would be better to acknowledge the problems with bankruptcy — while still opposing a bill that seems to be purely the handiwork of credit card companies.&quot; My impression is that the Democrats have been trying to do exactly that, by offering a series of amendments that would restore some protection for the genuinely unfortunate without letting the real deadbeats off the hook. Needless to say, the bought-and-paid-for-by-credit-card-issuers Republicans have unceremoniously shot them down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;So it would be better to acknowledge the problems with bankruptcy &#8212; while still opposing a bill that seems to be purely the handiwork of credit card companies.&#8221; My impression is that the Democrats have been trying to do exactly that, by offering a series of amendments that would restore some protection for the genuinely unfortunate without letting the real deadbeats off the hook. Needless to say, the bought-and-paid-for-by-credit-card-issuers Republicans have unceremoniously shot them down.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62444</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62444</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Did she buy inexpensive, basic models (which I did when I recently replaced my own—because who cares, we’re talking about laundry)?&lt;/i&gt;

You mean she bought something with an eye on longevity? God save us.

In other news, &#039;data&#039; is not the plural of &#039;anecdote&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Did she buy inexpensive, basic models (which I did when I recently replaced my own&#8212;because who cares, we&#8217;re talking about laundry)?</i></p>

	<p>You mean she bought something with an eye on longevity? God save us.</p>

	<p>In other news, &#8216;data&#8217; is not the plural of &#8216;anecdote&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: bob mcmanus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-62445</link>
		<dc:creator>bob mcmanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/08/the-chains-of-debt/#comment-62445</guid>
		<description>How stable a &quot;debt peonage&quot; society can they create? If the goal of the Republican Party is to eliminate the middle class, and create an America of owners and serfs, say in a 1/9 ratio;eliminate economic mobility, chance for a competitive education,political power:doesn&#039;t this eliminate the pool of the revolutionary and reformist vanguard, the intellectual bourgeiose? Wasn&#039;t Marx skeptical about the chances for revolution in Russia?

Serfdoms were stable for centuries.
De Soto&#039;s theories haven&#039;t really proved efficient. I suspect once you have eliminated the middle class, it is very hard to get it back. Is there any new non-Marxist theory on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How stable a &#8220;debt peonage&#8221; society can they create? If the goal of the Republican Party is to eliminate the middle class, and create an America of owners and serfs, say in a 1/9 ratio;eliminate economic mobility, chance for a competitive education,political power:doesn&#8217;t this eliminate the pool of the revolutionary and reformist vanguard, the intellectual bourgeiose? Wasn&#8217;t Marx skeptical about the chances for revolution in Russia?</p>

	<p>Serfdoms were stable for centuries.<br />
De Soto&#8217;s theories haven&#8217;t really proved efficient. I suspect once you have eliminated the middle class, it is very hard to get it back. Is there any new non-Marxist theory on this?</p>
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