<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: When Whigs Attack!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:13:42 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Skippy McGee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-63791</link>
		<dc:creator>Skippy McGee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-63791</guid>
		<description>I was forced to read the same book by Schlesinger my first year in college. Man, what unbelievable rubbish. I have not heard that much gleeful exposition of diabolical gibberish since THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS. What a horrible attack on the American Republic posing as a thoughtful call for &quot;reform.&quot;
	I think the book should be retitled and reissued in a new format as &quot;How To Trick Gentiles Into Giving You Permanent Tenure On Academic Welfare,&quot; as a far more appropriate description. The book is a bewildering sprawl of conflicting ideas arguing both for and against socialism in America without conviction in either premise. Of course, if you take a look around you can see that America got socialism irregardless. That&#039;s how subversion works over the long term.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was forced to read the same book by Schlesinger my first year in college. Man, what unbelievable rubbish. I have not heard that much gleeful exposition of diabolical gibberish since <span class="caps">THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS</span>. What a horrible attack on the American Republic posing as a thoughtful call for &#8220;reform.&#8221;<br />
I think the book should be retitled and reissued in a new format as &#8220;How To Trick Gentiles Into Giving You Permanent Tenure On Academic Welfare,&#8221; as a far more appropriate description. The book is a bewildering sprawl of conflicting ideas arguing both for and against socialism in America without conviction in either premise. Of course, if you take a look around you can see that America got socialism irregardless. That&#8217;s how subversion works over the long term.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Bostick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-63574</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Bostick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 01:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-63574</guid>
		<description>How can you include Grand Moff Tarkin but neither Darth Vader nor Senator Palpatine?  

And why is Charles Foster Kane so conspicuously absent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How can you include Grand Moff Tarkin but neither Darth Vader nor Senator Palpatine?</p>

	<p>And why is Charles Foster Kane so conspicuously absent?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: floopmeister</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62378</link>
		<dc:creator>floopmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62378</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As a result, there is also a sort of &#039;fish last to know it&#039;s in water&#039; cluelessness about the ubiquity of our Lockean liberalism.&lt;/i&gt;

Spot on. It can be funny listening to American political dialogue from outside the bubble - the Democrats would be a centre left (and a hell of a lot more Centre than Left!) party in any other Western country, I feel.
 
Still, Australia suffers from the same syndrome of the Tyranny of Opinion, except we are all good Benthamite utilitarian Whigs.

Sorta the same, but we swapped the &#039;Manifest Destiny&#039; claptrap for a &#039;Lucky Country&#039; smugly materialist apoliticism...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>As a result, there is also a sort of &#8216;fish last to know it&#8217;s in water&#8217; cluelessness about the ubiquity of our Lockean liberalism.</i></p>

	<p>Spot on. It can be funny listening to American political dialogue from outside the bubble &#8211; the Democrats would be a centre left (and a hell of a lot more Centre than Left!) party in any other Western country, I feel.</p>

	<p>Still, Australia suffers from the same syndrome of the Tyranny of Opinion, except we are all good Benthamite utilitarian Whigs.</p>

	<p>Sorta the same, but we swapped the &#8216;Manifest Destiny&#8217; claptrap for a &#8216;Lucky Country&#8217; smugly materialist apoliticism&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Rice</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62379</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62379</guid>
		<description>Are you sure Zod isn&#039;t really Zed, Sean Connery&#039;s character from Zardoz?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are you sure Zod isn&#8217;t really Zed, Sean Connery&#8217;s character from Zardoz?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62380</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62380</guid>
		<description>This is genius.  Two points:

a) Was Glenn Reynolds really in Tron?

b) The &quot;Plan 9 Guy&quot; is, of course, Tor Johnson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is genius.  Two points:</p>

	<p>a) Was Glenn Reynolds really in Tron?</p>

	<p>b) The &#8220;Plan 9 Guy&#8221; is, of course, Tor Johnson.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Schmitt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62381</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Schmitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62381</guid>
		<description>This is hilarious -- the only appropriate response to Horowitz.

But on the second page, your quote from &quot;The Paranoid Style&quot; is attributed to Douglas Hofstadter, the author of &quot;Goedel, Escher, Bach,&quot; when of course you mean the not as erudite Richard Hofstadter.  Needless to say, if Horowitz got hold of that error, he would use it to discredit the ENTIRE PROJECT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is hilarious&#8212;the only appropriate response to Horowitz.</p>

	<p>But on the second page, your quote from &#8220;The Paranoid Style&#8221; is attributed to Douglas Hofstadter, the author of &#8220;Goedel, Escher, Bach,&#8221; when of course you mean the not as erudite Richard Hofstadter.  Needless to say, if Horowitz got hold of that error, he would use it to discredit the <span class="caps">ENTIRE PROJECT</span>.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peter ramus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62382</link>
		<dc:creator>peter ramus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62382</guid>
		<description>A squib for &lt;a href=&quot;http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/nutwork/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Discover the Nutwork.org&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;Before entering politics, Tom Delay got his exterminator&#039;s license at de Maistre&#039;s famous St. Petersburg Academy in Sugarland, Texas, where he played wingback for the Exalted Executioners&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A squib for <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/nutwork/index.html" rel="nofollow">Discover the Nutwork.org</a>:</p>

	<p><i>Before entering politics, Tom Delay got his exterminator&#8217;s license at de Maistre&#8217;s famous St. Petersburg Academy in Sugarland, Texas, where he played wingback for the Exalted Executioners</i>.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jholbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62383</link>
		<dc:creator>jholbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62383</guid>
		<description>Oops! Thanks Mark, I&#039;ll correct my little Godelian slip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oops! Thanks Mark, I&#8217;ll correct my little Godelian slip.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Delicious pundit</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62384</link>
		<dc:creator>Delicious pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62384</guid>
		<description>Delicious!  I especially dig the Flann O&#039;Brien reference.

But -- who the hell does Mr. Potter (Lionel Barrymore) have to foreclose on to get some service around here?   I also nominate Scar, from Lion King.  And Coach Bob Knight, but only the photo where he&#039;s got the bullwhip.   And Mr. Pennybags.  

This is fun.  Were you also talking about a book or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Delicious!  I especially dig the Flann O&#8217;Brien reference.</p>

	<p>But&#8212;who the hell does Mr. Potter (Lionel Barrymore) have to foreclose on to get some service around here?   I also nominate Scar, from Lion King.  And Coach Bob Knight, but only the photo where he&#8217;s got the bullwhip.   And Mr. Pennybags.</p>

	<p>This is fun.  Were you also talking about a book or something?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62385</link>
		<dc:creator>eb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62385</guid>
		<description>James Kloppenberg published an interesting retrospective on Hartz&#039; &lt;em&gt;Liberal Tradition&lt;/em&gt; a couple of years ago in &lt;em&gt;Reviews in American History&lt;/em&gt;. If you have access to &lt;a href=&quot;http://muse.jhu.edu/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Project Muse&lt;/a&gt; you can read it &lt;a href=&quot;http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/reviews_in_american_history/v029/29.3kloppenberg.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve been meaning to read Hartz (both &lt;em&gt;Liberal Tradition&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Founding of New Societies&lt;/em&gt; but I haven&#039;t quite gotten there yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>James Kloppenberg published an interesting retrospective on Hartz&#8217; <em>Liberal Tradition</em> a couple of years ago in <em>Reviews in American History</em>. If you have access to <a href="http://muse.jhu.edu/index.html" rel="nofollow">Project Muse</a> you can read it <a href="http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/reviews_in_american_history/v029/29.3kloppenberg.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve been meaning to read Hartz (both <em>Liberal Tradition</em> and <em>Founding of New Societies</em> but I haven&#8217;t quite gotten there yet.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ogged</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62386</link>
		<dc:creator>ogged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62386</guid>
		<description>This is really very good.  And though Mark is too gracious to mention it, you misspelled his last name too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is really very good.  And though Mark is too gracious to mention it, you misspelled his last name too.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jholbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62387</link>
		<dc:creator>jholbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62387</guid>
		<description>Got it, ogged. Sorry Mark. Eric, I&#039;m pretty sure I got Zod, not Zed. You remember? &quot;Then die as you deserve to!&quot; &quot;Kneel before Zod!&quot; All that. Zardoz is another of my favorites, thought. Great stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Got it, ogged. Sorry Mark. Eric, I&#8217;m pretty sure I got Zod, not Zed. You remember? &#8220;Then die as you deserve to!&#8221; &#8220;Kneel before Zod!&#8221; All that. Zardoz is another of my favorites, thought. Great stuff.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62388</link>
		<dc:creator>eb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62388</guid>
		<description>Also relevant here for thinking about the liberal tradition is this passage from Gordon Wood&#039;s &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0807847232/ref=lpr_g_2/102-9670702-2605726?v=glance&amp;s=books&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Creation of the American Republic&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, in reference to the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debate over the Constitution:

&lt;blockquote&gt;“Considering the Federalist desire for a high-toned government filled with better sorts of people, there is something decidedly disingenuous about the democratic radicalism of their arguments... In effect they expropriated and exploited the language that more rightfully belonged to their opponents. The result was the beginning of a hiatus in American politics between ideology and motives that was never again closed. By using the most popular and democratic rhetoric available to explain and justify their aristocratic system, the Federalists helped to foreclose the development of an American intellectual tradition in which differing ideas of politics would be intimately and genuinely related to differing social interests. In other words, the Federalists in 1787 hastened the destruction of whatever chance there was in America for the growth of an avowedly aristocratic conception of politics and thereby contributed to the creation of that encompassing liberal tradition which has mitigated and often obscured the real social antagonisms of American politics. By attempting to confront and retard the thrust of the Revolution with the rhetoric of the Revolution, the Federalists fixed the terms for the future discussion of American politics. They thus brought the ideology of the Revolution to consummation and created a distinctly American political theory but only at the cost of eventually impoverishing later American thought.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also relevant here for thinking about the liberal tradition is this passage from Gordon Wood&#8217;s <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0807847232/ref=lpr_g_2/102-9670702-2605726?v=glance&#038;s=books" rel="nofollow">The Creation of the American Republic</a></em>, in reference to the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debate over the Constitution:</p>

	<p><blockquote>&#8220;Considering the Federalist desire for a high-toned government filled with better sorts of people, there is something decidedly disingenuous about the democratic radicalism of their arguments&#8230; In effect they expropriated and exploited the language that more rightfully belonged to their opponents. The result was the beginning of a hiatus in American politics between ideology and motives that was never again closed. By using the most popular and democratic rhetoric available to explain and justify their aristocratic system, the Federalists helped to foreclose the development of an American intellectual tradition in which differing ideas of politics would be intimately and genuinely related to differing social interests. In other words, the Federalists in 1787 hastened the destruction of whatever chance there was in America for the growth of an avowedly aristocratic conception of politics and thereby contributed to the creation of that encompassing liberal tradition which has mitigated and often obscured the real social antagonisms of American politics. By attempting to confront and retard the thrust of the Revolution with the rhetoric of the Revolution, the Federalists fixed the terms for the future discussion of American politics. They thus brought the ideology of the Revolution to consummation and created a distinctly American political theory but only at the cost of eventually impoverishing later American thought.&#8221;</blockquote></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62389</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62389</guid>
		<description>Best. CT. US. Political. Post. Ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Best. CT. US. Political. Post. Ever.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DeadHorseBeater</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/comment-page-1/#comment-62390</link>
		<dc:creator>DeadHorseBeater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/wp/2005/03/09/when-whigs-attack/#comment-62390</guid>
		<description>Being a big L Liberal, I&#039;m quite glad to see the American political discourse  &#039;impoverished&#039; by not having socialists, aristo-feudalists, or fascists.

Good riddance to bad baggage, I say.  May our never-ending flow of immigration keep us from ever having so much national cohesion that we abandon Liberal ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Being a big L Liberal, I&#8217;m quite glad to see the American political discourse  &#8216;impoverished&#8217; by not having socialists, aristo-feudalists, or fascists.</p>

	<p>Good riddance to bad baggage, I say.  May our never-ending flow of immigration keep us from ever having so much national cohesion that we abandon Liberal ideals.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
