In 1997, Terri Schiavo had been in a persistent vegetative state for 7 years. She’d been fitted with a PEG tube because she couldn’t swallow. If Iyers really had fed Terri Schiavo “small spoonfuls of jello” and it had been swallowed, it would have been a bloody miracle. Same for speaking words aloud – even Terri Schiavo’s parents have never claimed she spoke understandable words.

It’s really freaking unbelievable that, if Iyers genuinely had seen real evidence that Terri Schiavo was communicating, and had discussed it with her colleagues, that everyone would just have agreed to shut up about it because they were “scared of Michael”. (And presumably, are keeping quiet about it even now, because they’re “scared of Michael”. His surname is Schiavo, not Corleone!)

But even given that attitude, I presume you are dismissing both nurse’s comments about the husband.

Actually, I’m remembering a comment Jay Wolfson made about Michael Schiavo in his GAL report. He said that Mr Schiavo was a headache to nursing home administrators because he insisted on the best possible care for his wife, and he’d make trouble if she didn’t get it. (Terri Schiavo has never had a bedsore.)

Given two possibilities:

1. Carla Iyers witnessed a medical miracle: the regrowth of cerebral cortex tissue enabling a patient who had been in a PVS to speak and communicate and swallow semi-solids. She spoke about it to her colleagues. All of them kept quiet about it then, and are keeping quiet about it now, apart from Iyers, who said nothing to anyone else about it at the time, not even Terri Schiavo’s parents.

2. Carla Iyers got into trouble at work as a result of being careless or slipshod, and blames it on Michael Schiavo. She has ever since been telling a story that makes her look like a little heroine and Michael Schiavo like the villain of the piece, and has repeated it so often, with embellishments, that she’s come to believe it.

So, yeah, I do dismiss Carla Iyers claims. Even without the motive I think is plausible in 2, I still think it intrinsically more likely that she’s lying than that Terri Schiavo really did regrow cerebral cortex tissue and start communicating in 1997… but no one mentioned it.

It looks to me as though she, like the parents, was reading things into small signs and behaviors that were not significant, the way the people found stuff in the edited film that looked like responses.

1979-1984 worked as “ancillary personnel” at the CNA level (phlebotomist) so don’t give me that arrogance crap. Neither I nor they had any medical training beyond the task.

As for the comments about the husband, I can’t say.

If you are serious about all this, I suggest getting on the case. It’s a big case, involving many doctors and nurses—not just the husband.
Casually throwing out rumors isn’t enough. I still don’t think that there’s enough here to justify nationwide involvement by anyone. You and Reynolds were way too quick to pass on the politically- motivated character-assassination rumors.

But even given that attitude, I presume you are dismissing both nurse’s comments about the husband.

“And at one point Iyer made statements implying that the parents were neglecting their daughter too, which is probably why they didn’t ask for her testimony”

While we are making stuff up, can I assert that they didn’t supoena her because they didn’t remember her name years later?

A CNA’s testimony should not be regarded as medical testimony. CNA’s have very minimal training and are limited to specific tasks. They have no medical training beyond the tasks. Their judgement about the medical condition of the patient isn’t a professional judgement. Even now that parents are interpreting as “responses” things that aren’t.

As far as I know, their written comments are not charted; they’re for the use of the nurse. What Iyer reports requires that the whole professional nursing staff (everyone who ever worked there on the shift when Iyer was there) was in on the coverup/neglect. That’s a considerable number of people, and they have to be deliberately covering up because this is a famous case. (And at one point Iyer made statements implying that the parents were neglecting their daughter too, which is probably why they didn’t ask for her testimony).

I don’t see any reason to dispute the court’s dismissal of Iyer’s testimony, or to keep alive the rumor that ten years ago he was trying to kill her for money.

But that said, I’m also not a fan of those (including those on this board) who seem to think that the objections to starving Schiavo are mere pretense or those who seem to lionize Mr. Schiavo despite noticeable evidence that he has strong interests that don’t seem to be in line with Mrs. Schiavo’s.

Evidence of Schiavo’s state of mind, his unwillingness to allow her to receive physical therapy and her ability to respond to stimuli (at least at the time):

Iyer Affidavit

To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri’s hand to keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.

…

When I came into her room and said “Hi, Terri”, she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying “Haaaiiiii” sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a “hi”, which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri’s, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri’s rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri’s responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.

…

Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri’s death. Michael would say “When is she going to die?,” “Has she died yet?” and “When is that bitch gonna die?” These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include “Can’t you do anything to accelerate her death – won’t she ever die?” When she wouldn’t die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as “Make sure the parents aren’t contacted.” I recorded Michael’s statements word for word in Terri’s chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn’t to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.

…

When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I’d check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri’s mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri’s blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting.

…

The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I’ve said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named Carolyn Adams, known as “Andy” Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as “They are old – let them die.” I couldn’t believe her attitude or the fact that it didn’t seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my “rocking the boat.”

Law Affidavit :

I know that Terri did not receive routine physical therapy or any other kind of therapy. I was personally aware of orders for rehabilitation that were not being carried out. Even though they were ordered, Michael would stop them. Michael ordered that Terri receive no rehabilitation or range of motion therapy. I and Olga would give Terri range of motion anyway, but we knew we were endangering our jobs by doing so.

…

Terri had very definite likes and dislikes. Olga and I used to call Terri “Fancy Pants,” because she was so particular about certain things. She just adored her baths, and was so happy afterward when she was all clean, smelling sweet from the lotion her mother provided, and wearing the soft nightgowns her mother laundered for her. Terri definitely did not like the taste of the teeth-cleaning swabs or the mouthwash we used. She liked to have her hair combed. She did not like being tucked in, and especially hated it if her legs were tightly tucked. You would always tell when Terri had a bowel movement, as she seem agitated and would sort of “scoot” to get away from it.

…

When Olga was talking with Terri, Terri would follow Olga with her eyes. I have no doubt in my mind that Terri understood what Olga was saying to her. I could tell a definite difference between the way Terri responded to Olga and the way she reacted to me, until she got used to my taking care of her. Initially, she “clammed up” with me, the way she would with anyone she did not know or was not familiar or comfortable with. It took about the fourth or fifth time taking care of her alone, without Olga, that Terri became relaxed and cooperative and non-resistant with me.

…

At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag. Olga and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely. I did not do it more often only because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael.

…

In the past, I have taken care of comatose patients, including those in a persistent vegetative state. While it is true that those patients will flinch or make sounds occasionally, they don’t do it as a reaction to someone on a constant basis who is taking care of them, the way I saw Terri do.

…

During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard her say “mommy” from time to time, and “momma,” and she also said “help me” a number of times. She would frequently make noises like she was trying to talk. Other staff members talked about her verbalizations.

…

As a CNA, I wanted every piece of information I could get about my patients. I never had access to medical records as a CNA, but it was part of my job duties to write my observations down on sheets of paper, which I turned over to the nurse at the nurses station for inclusion in the patients charts. In the case of Terri Schiavo, I felt that my notes were thrown out without even being read. There were trash cans at the nurses stations that we were supposed to empty each shift, and I often saw the notes in them. I made extensive notes and listed all of Terri’s behaviors, but there was never any apparent follow up consistent with her responsiveness.

…

I discussed this situation with other personnel at Palm Gardens, particularly with Olga, and another CNA, an older black man named Ewan Morris. We all discussed the fact that we could be fired for reporting that Terri was responsive, and especially for giving her treatment. The advice among the staff was “don’t do nothin’, don’t see nothin’ and don’t say nothin’.” It was particularly distressing that we always had to be afraid that if Michael got upset, he would take his anger out on Terri.

Two nurses, working at completely different times in the nursing home, both allege that Mrs. Schiavo was responsive, both allege that their notes on her responsiveness were destroyed, both allege that Mr. Schiavo was cruel to the staff for helping Mrs. Schiavo.

The judge dismisses these claims because Mr. and Mrs. Schindler did not remember the names of the nurses for a subpoena many years later (as if most parents would remember every nurse taking care of their daughter over a 15 year period) and because their notes do not appear in the file (both allege that they noticed their notes being removed at the time) and because it would require a huge conspiracy (Huge? One doctor agreeing with Mr. Schiavo and a cowed staff in a nursing home. Not huge and not unlikely.)

BTW, do I believe there is a huge settlement left for Mr. Schiavo to collect NOW? No. I understand that legal bills regarding the fight to let her die and care bills have eaten up a large portion of it. But that wasn’t true years ago when the court battle began. I wouldn’t find it shocking to believe that in the early phases, large amounts of money could have been large factors.

I don’t know that there is, in fact, “evidence” for this. If you know otherwise, please enlighten us.

There are certainly allegations of some kind of dark motives on Michael Schiavo’s part; but those have been considered repeatedly in a whole slew of legal proceedings, where they have been found to be baseless. If you think all of those judges were consistently in error, please tell us how they erred, and how you know this to be true. Otherwise, these shadowy references to “factors other than mere justifiable concern” are truly grotesque.

No, I’m not a doctor. From what I’ve read, a lot of people are saying that Terri might get better, and from what I’ve read that’s not true and they should know better. She has had medical care, you know.

Sorry, not every issue someone raises is a real issue. I started out relatively indifferent to this case, wanting to ignore it, and the more I learned about the layers of misrepresentation, slander, sophistry, demagogy, and exploitation, the angrier I got. I think that this case is one where certitude is an appropriate response.

The two things in question seem to be that Terri Schiavo’s health problems are the result of a murder attempt by her husband Michael, and that he wants her to die now because he’ll come into a heap of money if she does.

These are two very harsh accusations, and at this point (after spending some time Googling the financial accusations) I believe that they are both vile, conjectural smears not worthy of anyone’s attention. You really have to flesh these out or you are just spreading, ill-intended, self-serving, malicious rumors.

I don’t think that Michael S. can be faulted for wanting to go on with his life, BTW. From what I’ve seen his behavior towards Terri has been about right, except by medieval Irish-Catholic standards.

Yes, the problem is your certitude, when you throw around statements like “Terri’s condition has been repeatedly misrepresented.” Are you making this statement based on your personal examination of her CT scans?!