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	<title>Comments on: Classroom diversity</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64994</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64994</guid>
		<description>To much focus on the trees.  The specific subject in question is unimportant.  This bill is about moving power from the university faculty to a state’s legislature.  In the past, Florida universities decided what behavior is acceptable on their campuses.  The Florida legislature is now making that determination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To much focus on the trees.  The specific subject in question is unimportant.  This bill is about moving power from the university faculty to a state&#8217;s legislature.  In the past, Florida universities decided what behavior is acceptable on their campuses.  The Florida legislature is now making that determination.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay C</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64911</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64911</guid>
		<description>I think a better, and more strictly politically-oriented, analogy for David Horowitz would be to see him as an updated version of that 1950s archetype: the Former Red anti-Communist crusader. 
  The storyline is pretty much the same three-act play (with many of the same characters): 1. Committed Young Ideologue throws himself into a political movement; 2. C.Y.I. &quot;sees the light&quot; and realizes said movement is actually Pure Evil;
3. Former C.Y.I. spends the rest of his career making bucks denouncing his former movement, and inveighing all and sundry against its Evil that he finds lurking everywhere (with his background lending an &quot;I know whereof I speak&quot; authority to even his most intemperate screeds).
   It&#039;s bad enough that cranks like David Horowitz have an audience, that public officials would rely on him to suggest/craft actual legislation to enact his crank notions of PC into law is astonishing. What IS it with Florida, anyway? Does the heat and humidity get to peoples&#039; brains, or what?






</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think a better, and more strictly politically-oriented, analogy for David Horowitz would be to see him as an updated version of that 1950s archetype: the Former Red anti-Communist crusader.<br />
The storyline is pretty much the same three-act play (with many of the same characters): 1. Committed Young Ideologue throws himself into a political movement; 2. C.Y.I. &#8220;sees the light&#8221; and realizes said movement is actually Pure Evil;<br />
3. Former C.Y.I. spends the rest of his career making bucks denouncing his former movement, and inveighing all and sundry against its Evil that he finds lurking everywhere (with his background lending an &#8220;I know whereof I speak&#8221; authority to even his most intemperate screeds).<br />
It&#8217;s bad enough that cranks like David Horowitz have an audience, that public officials would rely on him to suggest/craft actual legislation to enact his crank notions of PC into law is astonishing. What IS it with Florida, anyway? Does the heat and humidity get to peoples&#8217; brains, or what?</p>
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		<title>By: The American Street  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Extreme leftist totalitarian evilutionist reporting for duty!</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64908</link>
		<dc:creator>The American Street  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Extreme leftist totalitarian evilutionist reporting for duty!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64908</guid>
		<description>[...]  so I&#8217;ve been missing everything from them for some time. In particular, I missed an interesting discussion of classroom &#8220;diversity&#8221; that was fueled by this stun [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...]  so I&#8217;ve been missing everything from them for some time. In particular, I missed an interesting discussion of classroom &#8220;diversity&#8221; that was fueled by this stun [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Erik D. Hilsinger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64862</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik D. Hilsinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64862</guid>
		<description>The problem is that Horowitz is not really an academic, he is a polemicist and carrier-on, an outside agitator if you will.  He earns his money by singing his song, and lately his tune has but a few notes.  In many ways the people he works for are afraid of their own inability to keep up with the world of science and academia.  How can people who made or received their fortunes from old-time industries (manufacturing and so on) conceive of advances in physics, biology, chemistry, and archaeology/anthropology?  The synergies between them are staggering in their importance and the market capitalist mindset has a difficult time conceiving of the productization of, say, string theory, pleistocene radiations into the New World, and so on.  These advances are several market cycles from reality for the people who are running our politics and businesses, which increasingly are indistinguishable and unseparate to the detriment of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The problem is that Horowitz is not really an academic, he is a polemicist and carrier-on, an outside agitator if you will.  He earns his money by singing his song, and lately his tune has but a few notes.  In many ways the people he works for are afraid of their own inability to keep up with the world of science and academia.  How can people who made or received their fortunes from old-time industries (manufacturing and so on) conceive of advances in physics, biology, chemistry, and archaeology/anthropology?  The synergies between them are staggering in their importance and the market capitalist mindset has a difficult time conceiving of the productization of, say, string theory, pleistocene radiations into the New World, and so on.  These advances are several market cycles from reality for the people who are running our politics and businesses, which increasingly are indistinguishable and unseparate to the detriment of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Reeves</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64802</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Reeves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64802</guid>
		<description>One thing that annoys me about Horowitz&#039;s jihad is that the term &quot;totalitarian leftists&quot; keeps coming up.  The problem is that Horowitz is doing some serious projection here--he basically assumes that since when he was a leftist he had totalitarian beliefs, then every leftist must also be a Stalinist.  In a way, I think that&#039;s what resulted the earlier, zanier version of his &quot;discover the network&quot; page so surreal.  He is quite possibly unable to conceive of people to his left who might also believe in freedom and basic democratic norms.

I think the best comparison for Horowitz would be to someone who has converted to Christianity from militant atheism.  The former militant atheist assumes that because *his* unbelief was due to a sense of being angry with the Christian God, then every person who doesn&#039;t believe in the Christian faith has similar motivations.

It basically amounts to a failure to understand that there are different people in the world. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One thing that annoys me about Horowitz&#8217;s jihad is that the term &#8220;totalitarian leftists&#8221; keeps coming up.  The problem is that Horowitz is doing some serious projection here&#8212;he basically assumes that since when he was a leftist he had totalitarian beliefs, then every leftist must also be a Stalinist.  In a way, I think that&#8217;s what resulted the earlier, zanier version of his &#8220;discover the network&#8221; page so surreal.  He is quite possibly unable to conceive of people to his left who might also believe in freedom and basic democratic norms.</p>

	<p>I think the best comparison for Horowitz would be to someone who has converted to Christianity from militant atheism.  The former militant atheist assumes that because <strong>his</strong> unbelief was due to a sense of being angry with the Christian God, then every person who doesn&#8217;t believe in the Christian faith has similar motivations.</p>

	<p>It basically amounts to a failure to understand that there are different people in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: euan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64789</link>
		<dc:creator>euan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64789</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a post on this topic http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/902
at the Panda&#039;s Thumb which points out that the Florida constitution will render the proposed legislation toothles, at best.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s a post on this topic <a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/902" rel="nofollow">http://www.pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/902</a><br />
at the Panda&#8217;s Thumb which points out that the Florida constitution will render the proposed legislation toothles, at best.</p>
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		<title>By: maureen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64787</link>
		<dc:creator>maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64787</guid>
		<description>I remember arriving at university in 1960  -  from a small school in the back of beyond  -  and discovering ideas I&#039;d never met before and people wildly enthusiastic about subjects I didn&#039;t know existed.  I rather thought that was the point of my being there.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I remember arriving at university in 1960  &#8211;  from a small school in the back of beyond  &#8211;  and discovering ideas I&#8217;d never met before and people wildly enthusiastic about subjects I didn&#8217;t know existed.  I rather thought that was the point of my being there.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64784</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64784</guid>
		<description>&quot;Special case&quot;, eh? I&#039;m sure lots of evolutionary biologists would be thrilled to hear your ideas about the flaws in their science. Could be a Nobel Prize in there somewhere. C&#039;mon, don&#039;t hold back!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Special case&#8221;, eh? I&#8217;m sure lots of evolutionary biologists would be thrilled to hear your ideas about the flaws in their science. Could be a Nobel Prize in there somewhere. C&#8217;mon, don&#8217;t hold back!</p>
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		<title>By: John Landon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64783</link>
		<dc:creator>John Landon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64783</guid>
		<description>Right wing attacks on liberal eduction is pretty horrifying, but evolution is a special case: it is possible to find flaws in the Darwinian theory of natural selection, and many did long ago before the right hijacked these critiques and repackaged them as Intelligent Design. It would be more strategic to have beaten the opposition to it, and acknowledged the problems here at the point before they become stultified by the design scam. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Right wing attacks on liberal eduction is pretty horrifying, but evolution is a special case: it is possible to find flaws in the Darwinian theory of natural selection, and many did long ago before the right hijacked these critiques and repackaged them as Intelligent Design. It would be more strategic to have beaten the opposition to it, and acknowledged the problems here at the point before they become stultified by the design scam.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64781</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64781</guid>
		<description>Well, one might make a partial exception for graduate seminars, in which participants should be on more of an equal footing (and perhaps you&#039;re being trained to hold your own in professional life) but even there I wonder how useful yelling is and what kind of macho tone is set.  My models in grad school were people who could find and convey the insights in a position they *didn&#039;t* hold.  And the last post shows one of the problems of the *assumption* of politicization which is that students will cynically submit the most appalling PC crap because they think it will get them an A.  Once you reach that stage it&#039;s very hard to get people back to the point of taking a subject seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, one might make a partial exception for graduate seminars, in which participants should be on more of an equal footing (and perhaps you&#8217;re being trained to hold your own in professional life) but even there I wonder how useful yelling is and what kind of macho tone is set.  My models in grad school were people who could find and convey the insights in a position they <strong>didn&#8217;t</strong> hold.  And the last post shows one of the problems of the <strong>assumption</strong> of politicization which is that students will cynically submit the most appalling PC crap because they think it will get them an A.  Once you reach that stage it&#8217;s very hard to get people back to the point of taking a subject seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64776</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 02:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64776</guid>
		<description>As a relatively recent graduate, I&#039;d like to make one thing clear: I&#039;m willing to listen to &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; amount of brain-rotted, deconstructivist Derrida crap if that&#039;s what it takes to keep crybaby students from suing the professors.

Sheesh, it&#039;s like they don&#039;t know how to write a BS paper and then cruelly mock the professor in private.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a relatively recent graduate, I&#8217;d like to make one thing clear: I&#8217;m willing to listen to <i>any</i> amount of brain-rotted, deconstructivist Derrida crap if that&#8217;s what it takes to keep crybaby students from suing the professors.</p>

	<p>Sheesh, it&#8217;s like they don&#8217;t know how to write a BS paper and then cruelly mock the professor in private.</p>
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		<title>By: Tcatch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64774</link>
		<dc:creator>Tcatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 01:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64774</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it is so easy to distinguish good teaching from advocacy or even from belligerence.  

As to the latter, one of the best things that happened to me in graduate school was getting chewed out (and I mean literally yelled at)in a seminar on Kant by the late George Schrader, Jr., who was offended by my Strawson-influenced perspective on the text and who was, at the time, having us read Kant in conjunction with Wilhelm Reich&#039;s &quot;The Mass Psychology of Fascism.&quot;  What was helpful about his anger was that it shocked me into reconsidering not so much Kant as what it meant to seriously engage in the study of a philosophical text.  It would have been possible to see his treatment of me as abusive, I suppose, and as reflecting either a left-wing or an anti-analytic &#039;bias&#039;.  (His reading of Kant was certainly politicized, and the department was engaged in a sort of civil war over &#039;analytic&#039; vs. &#039;continental&#039; conceptions of philosophy.)  I was grateful (and still am) that he cared enough about his subject and his students to get mad and yell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t think it is so easy to distinguish good teaching from advocacy or even from belligerence.</p>

	<p>As to the latter, one of the best things that happened to me in graduate school was getting chewed out (and I mean literally yelled at)in a seminar on Kant by the late George Schrader, Jr., who was offended by my Strawson-influenced perspective on the text and who was, at the time, having us read Kant in conjunction with Wilhelm Reich&#8217;s &#8220;The Mass Psychology of Fascism.&#8221;  What was helpful about his anger was that it shocked me into reconsidering not so much Kant as what it meant to seriously engage in the study of a philosophical text.  It would have been possible to see his treatment of me as abusive, I suppose, and as reflecting either a left-wing or an anti-analytic &#8216;bias&#8217;.  (His reading of Kant was certainly politicized, and the department was engaged in a sort of civil war over &#8216;analytic&#8217; vs. &#8216;continental&#8217; conceptions of philosophy.)  I was grateful (and still am) that he cared enough about his subject and his students to get mad and yell.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64765</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64765</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;It is ridiculous to assume that teachers will never become emotional or belligerent when discussing a touchy subject.&quot;

I disagree.  Becoming belligerent is bad teaching, period, and if you deal with &quot;touchy&quot; subjects you spend a lot of time preparing the ground and figuring out how to do it that people can learn something and discussions will not get personalized or divisive.  Despite these efforts you still sometimes get tough situations, usually because of political disputes that break out among students that they want you to resolve.  But if that happens you&#039;ve got a pedagogical failure, because once people get into food-fight mode learning stops.

Teaching ideas requires getting people to the point that they can see what is smart in ideas they don&#039;t agree with, and you don&#039;t do that without giving them a range of ideas and a sense of genuine productive debate.  There are few things more destructive to this than the idea that teachers are mere advocates for one or another kind of politics.  

Or even mere advocates of larger doctrines: in reply to Mr. Labonne, for example, I&#039;d note that I do want students to understand what the Enlightenment is and where it comes from and what its enormous strengths are, and it&#039;s actually *hard* to do that if they don&#039;t also grasp the points made by critics like Blake or Burke.

It&#039;s not useful to try to collapse these controversies into the Enlightenment versus the 17th century.  It&#039;s also insulting to religious thought to equate it with the past or with the likes of Mr. Baxley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re: &#8220;It is ridiculous to assume that teachers will never become emotional or belligerent when discussing a touchy subject.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I disagree.  Becoming belligerent is bad teaching, period, and if you deal with &#8220;touchy&#8221; subjects you spend a lot of time preparing the ground and figuring out how to do it that people can learn something and discussions will not get personalized or divisive.  Despite these efforts you still sometimes get tough situations, usually because of political disputes that break out among students that they want you to resolve.  But if that happens you&#8217;ve got a pedagogical failure, because once people get into food-fight mode learning stops.</p>

	<p>Teaching ideas requires getting people to the point that they can see what is smart in ideas they don&#8217;t agree with, and you don&#8217;t do that without giving them a range of ideas and a sense of genuine productive debate.  There are few things more destructive to this than the idea that teachers are mere advocates for one or another kind of politics.</p>

	<p>Or even mere advocates of larger doctrines: in reply to Mr. Labonne, for example, I&#8217;d note that I do want students to understand what the Enlightenment is and where it comes from and what its enormous strengths are, and it&#8217;s actually <strong>hard</strong> to do that if they don&#8217;t also grasp the points made by critics like Blake or Burke.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s not useful to try to collapse these controversies into the Enlightenment versus the 17th century.  It&#8217;s also insulting to religious thought to equate it with the past or with the likes of Mr. Baxley.</p>
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		<title>By: aretino</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64756</link>
		<dc:creator>aretino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64756</guid>
		<description>I went to graduate school (in a humanities field) at a prestigious secular private reasearch university.  Every time I read about the scourge of tyrannical leftist professors, I ask myself , &quot;Where the hell were they in the 80s and 90s when I was in school?&quot;

I vividly remember the intolerant conservative stranglehold on my graduate department, and even my university.

Fully half of the dozen professors in our department, and almost all of those who had a say in running things, were right-wing nut jobs.  They relentlessly pushed their extreme views -- in and out of the classroom.

I remember the department chair who spent a whole two hours of a graduate seminar ranting about the evils of Jesse Jackson.  

I remember the professor who spent an entire seminar expounding upon the physical and intellectual inferiority of women.  

And then there was the department neo-Con -- meaning neo-Confederate, in his case.  At least that professor usually confined his apologetics for Southern racism to private conversations rather than wasting our class time with his ranting.

I remember the brilliant young professor they purged when they found out he hung out with too liberal a crowd on his own time.

The atmosphere at the university as a whole was little better.  I particularly remember the Republican hecklers who came to disrupt talks by insufficiently conservative visiting speakers.  The university administration never saw fit even to criticize those assaults on free speech.

Despite being surrounded by real academic bias every day, it never occurred to me to whine and pout and cry.  I sucked it up and got on with life.  So these pathetic mewlings from conservatives who imagine they are being dissed simply disgust me.  Grow up, already!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I went to graduate school (in a humanities field) at a prestigious secular private reasearch university.  Every time I read about the scourge of tyrannical leftist professors, I ask myself , &#8220;Where the hell were they in the 80s and 90s when I was in school?&#8221;</p>

	<p>I vividly remember the intolerant conservative stranglehold on my graduate department, and even my university.</p>

	<p>Fully half of the dozen professors in our department, and almost all of those who had a say in running things, were right-wing nut jobs.  They relentlessly pushed their extreme views&#8212;in and out of the classroom.</p>

	<p>I remember the department chair who spent a whole two hours of a graduate seminar ranting about the evils of Jesse Jackson.</p>

	<p>I remember the professor who spent an entire seminar expounding upon the physical and intellectual inferiority of women.</p>

	<p>And then there was the department neo-Con&#8212;meaning neo-Confederate, in his case.  At least that professor usually confined his apologetics for Southern racism to private conversations rather than wasting our class time with his ranting.</p>

	<p>I remember the brilliant young professor they purged when they found out he hung out with too liberal a crowd on his own time.</p>

	<p>The atmosphere at the university as a whole was little better.  I particularly remember the Republican hecklers who came to disrupt talks by insufficiently conservative visiting speakers.  The university administration never saw fit even to criticize those assaults on free speech.</p>

	<p>Despite being surrounded by real academic bias every day, it never occurred to me to whine and pout and cry.  I sucked it up and got on with life.  So these pathetic mewlings from conservatives who imagine they are being dissed simply disgust me.  Grow up, already!</p>
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		<title>By: Peggy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-64755</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/25/classroom-diversity/#comment-64755</guid>
		<description>As a resident of Massachusetts, whose excellent universities supply almost all of our economic future, I support this bill. In a partisan fashion, if the Republican states (and even California) were to adopt similar bills, Boston would be a boomtown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a resident of Massachusetts, whose excellent universities supply almost all of our economic future, I support this bill. In a partisan fashion, if the Republican states (and even California) were to adopt similar bills, Boston would be a boomtown.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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