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	<title>Comments on: On being super-rich</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: bellatrys</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-66217</link>
		<dc:creator>bellatrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-66217</guid>
		<description>Thomas, are you really that much of a moron?

Do you not know that it costs a great deal of money to move, particularly abroad?

Are you really unaware that European countries don&#039;t want freeloading broke immigrants, any more than we do, not even white Americans? And they don&#039;t want to share jobs with us, either.

Or were you planning to subsidize my move, and find me employment in one of those countries - and anyone else in my position? If not, with all *due* respect, STFU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thomas, are you really that much of a moron?</p>

	<p>Do you not know that it costs a great deal of money to move, particularly abroad?</p>

	<p>Are you really unaware that European countries don&#8217;t want freeloading broke immigrants, any more than we do, not even white Americans? And they don&#8217;t want to share jobs with us, either.</p>

	<p>Or were you planning to subsidize my move, and find me employment in one of those countries &#8211; and anyone else in my position? If not, with all <strong>due</strong> respect, <span class="caps">STFU</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: Raimo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65770</link>
		<dc:creator>Raimo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65770</guid>
		<description>Chris, I don&#039;t even make it into the top 12%, and would die of disappointment if I couldn&#039;t make myself look like a gazillionaire in this site: http://tinyurl.com/12f3

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Chris, I don&#8217;t even make it into the top 12%, and would die of disappointment if I couldn&#8217;t make myself look like a gazillionaire in this site: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/12f3" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/12f3</a></p>
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		<title>By: James B. Shearer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65698</link>
		<dc:creator>James B. Shearer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65698</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t trust the GlobalRichList figures.  They show for example exactly half the people making between $100000 and $200000 make less than $150000 which is not plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t trust the GlobalRichList figures.  They show for example exactly half the people making between $100000 and $200000 make less than $150000 which is not plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65649</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65649</guid>
		<description>A few points: It is eminently possible to arrange to have ludricusly low costs-of-living in highincome countries. I pay 300 euro/month for a very nice room (with broadband) as centrally located as at all possible in an fairsized scandinavian city. Apart from food that is the totality of my fixed costs, which means that in practical terms I&#039;m one heck of a lot richer than my income would indicate. (I blow it all on books, games, movies, eating out and nice threads .-)

It is *not* possible for a thirdworld resident to arragne hir affairs so that they don&#039;t have to spend the entirety of that single daily dollar they make on bare survival.

Bellatrys: hhm. Move? Canada, Sweden and Finland are all nice places. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A few points: It is eminently possible to arrange to have ludricusly low costs-of-living in highincome countries. I pay 300 euro/month for a very nice room (with broadband) as centrally located as at all possible in an fairsized scandinavian city. Apart from food that is the totality of my fixed costs, which means that in practical terms I&#8217;m one heck of a lot richer than my income would indicate. (I blow it all on books, games, movies, eating out and nice threads .-)</p>

	<p>It is <strong>not</strong> possible for a thirdworld resident to arragne hir affairs so that they don&#8217;t have to spend the entirety of that single daily dollar they make on bare survival.</p>

	<p>Bellatrys: hhm. Move? Canada, Sweden and Finland are all nice places.</p>
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		<title>By: bellatrys</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65613</link>
		<dc:creator>bellatrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65613</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve never been higher than the top 11%, and as things are now I don&#039;t expect to ever be making more than $20k per year, college degree or no college degree, because I lack the necessary social connections and the sales personality and the penis. Doing the work for which others get paid (as they go out and golf), and being told that it&#039;s fair because men have or want families to support, has left me increasingly liberal as I get older. My role in the ownership society is to be owned, and I refuse to be a sex slave, so there is no place for me but technoserf.

Living one pay check away from living under a bridge, not being able to afford health care or medicine, and not having reliable transportation in a northern winter, is nearly as miserable in a first world society as elsewhere. True, I happen not to live in a combat zone, but urban disaster areas here are only a relative improvement. And even the vaunted successes of the west - clean safe water and lack of enviornmental contaminants - are relative to your wealth and demographics here. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, I&#8217;ve never been higher than the top 11%, and as things are now I don&#8217;t expect to ever be making more than $20k per year, college degree or no college degree, because I lack the necessary social connections and the sales personality and the penis. Doing the work for which others get paid (as they go out and golf), and being told that it&#8217;s fair because men have or want families to support, has left me increasingly liberal as I get older. My role in the ownership society is to be owned, and I refuse to be a sex slave, so there is no place for me but technoserf.</p>

	<p>Living one pay check away from living under a bridge, not being able to afford health care or medicine, and not having reliable transportation in a northern winter, is nearly as miserable in a first world society as elsewhere. True, I happen not to live in a combat zone, but urban disaster areas here are only a relative improvement. And even the vaunted successes of the west &#8211; clean safe water and lack of enviornmental contaminants &#8211; are relative to your wealth and demographics here.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65571</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65571</guid>
		<description>I would just like to echo the sentiment that that was a beautiful post.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would just like to echo the sentiment that that was a beautiful post.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Kane</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65561</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 03:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65561</guid>
		<description>Urk -- I should probably be banned for posting three times but I do want to agree overall with Ith that the discussion should be honest not attempting to deny the reality of widespread poverty.  After all, of course, we are not talking about differences in comfort level but abject human misery on vast scales vs. the decision to eat in or out. 

By the way, I am interested in that study that gives you &quot;economic points&quot; for example for being married--which is worth $$$--or having more than 5 friends, etc. in terms of human happiness.  I lived for a time in Indonesia and the family I stayed with made probably less than $1000 per year as a whole.  They lived in some respects much better overall than I do in NYC now, I must say, with a large communal family in one compound, and they probably worked fewer hours than I do now as an isolated Manhattanite in a tiny cubicle, I mean, apartment.  

Can those people be compared to, say, a family in Sudan being driven out of their homes by the government and executed by a militia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Urk&#8212;I should probably be banned for posting three times but I do want to agree overall with Ith that the discussion should be honest not attempting to deny the reality of widespread poverty.  After all, of course, we are not talking about differences in comfort level but abject human misery on vast scales vs. the decision to eat in or out.</p>

	<p>By the way, I am interested in that study that gives you &#8220;economic points&#8221; for example for being married&#8212;which is worth $$$&#8212;or having more than 5 friends, etc. in terms of human happiness.  I lived for a time in Indonesia and the family I stayed with made probably less than $1000 per year as a whole.  They lived in some respects much better overall than I do in <span class="caps">NYC</span> now, I must say, with a large communal family in one compound, and they probably worked fewer hours than I do now as an isolated Manhattanite in a tiny cubicle, I mean, apartment.</p>

	<p>Can those people be compared to, say, a family in Sudan being driven out of their homes by the government and executed by a militia?</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Kane</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65559</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 03:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65559</guid>
		<description>Kiernan -- Incidentally, I think you right.  It is safe to assume, I think, that the web site generating the list is operating in the interests of &quot;the greater good.&quot; Therefore, distortions and lies by omission are considered kosher tools to make you &quot;do the right thing.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kiernan&#8212;Incidentally, I think you right.  It is safe to assume, I think, that the web site generating the list is operating in the interests of &#8220;the greater good.&#8221; Therefore, distortions and lies by omission are considered kosher tools to make you &#8220;do the right thing.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Lee Kane</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65557</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 03:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65557</guid>
		<description>I wonder -- Does this thing use PPP to figure out my wealth?  I live in NYC. A one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan costs about half a million dollars + about $800 &quot;maintenance&quot; for trash and whatnot per month.  Of course, it&#039;s difficult to save that amount when I&#039;m paying about 50% of my income to the government,  (I am including NYC sales tax of almost 9%).  I am still better off than most people in the developing world, of course.  But if one used PPP and subtracted the 50 cents on the dollar the government gets already the picture looks a little different....
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder&#8212;Does this thing use <span class="caps">PPP</span> to figure out my wealth?  I live in <span class="caps">NYC</span>. A one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan costs about half a million dollars + about $800 &#8220;maintenance&#8221; for trash and whatnot per month.  Of course, it&#8217;s difficult to save that amount when I&#8217;m paying about 50% of my income to the government,  (I am including <span class="caps">NYC</span> sales tax of almost 9%).  I am still better off than most people in the developing world, of course.  But if one used <span class="caps">PPP</span> and subtracted the 50 cents on the dollar the government gets already the picture looks a little different&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: AdamSmithee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65499</link>
		<dc:creator>AdamSmithee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65499</guid>
		<description>On the question of how to get into that hallowed one percent, the answer is, &lt;a href=&quot;http://adamsmithee.blogs.com/blog/2005/03/predestination.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;be born rich in a rich country&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the question of how to get into that hallowed one percent, the answer is, <a href="http://adamsmithee.blogs.com/blog/2005/03/predestination.html" rel="nofollow">be born rich in a rich country</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65482</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65482</guid>
		<description>How much money is there per person in the world?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How much money is there per person in the world?</p>
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		<title>By: W. Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65455</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65455</guid>
		<description>Using 2003 income figures from

http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032004/perinc/new11_000.htm

I read that the 50th percentile of individual incomes for males in the U.S. is somewhere between $25,000 and $27,500, which according to the Global Rich List calculator works out to the 90th percentile of world incomes, and the 75th percentile of individual incomes for males in the U.S. is somewhere between $47,500 and $50,000, which according to the calculator puts them in the wealthiest 0.9%.  (I am startled to note that the income range from $47,500 and $50,000, the 75th percentile for U.S. men, is the 90th percentile for U.S. women in the U.S., and while the median income for males is between $25,000 and $27,500, for U.S. women the median income is down between $12,500 and $15,000!) 

Those numbers seem funny to me.  The U.S. accounts for about 4.5% of the world&#039;s population.  A quarter of U.S. males and a tenth of U.S. females - that adds up to about 0.8% of the world&#039;s population - fall in the top 0.9% of global incomes.  So eight out of nine of the world&#039;s citizens with incomes greater than about $50,000 would be Americans.

That doesn&#039;t sound right to me, especially with the appreciation of the Euro these last few years.  I suspect that the Global Rich List calculator is income-wise comparing you, the individual worker, with not just the other workers of the world but &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; the world&#039;s citizens, including dependent children and retirees.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Using 2003 income figures from</p>

	<p><a href="http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032004/perinc/new11_000.htm" rel="nofollow">http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032004/perinc/new11_000.htm</a></p>

	<p>I read that the 50th percentile of individual incomes for males in the U.S. is somewhere between $25,000 and $27,500, which according to the Global Rich List calculator works out to the 90th percentile of world incomes, and the 75th percentile of individual incomes for males in the U.S. is somewhere between $47,500 and $50,000, which according to the calculator puts them in the wealthiest 0.9%.  (I am startled to note that the income range from $47,500 and $50,000, the 75th percentile for U.S. men, is the 90th percentile for U.S. women in the U.S., and while the median income for males is between $25,000 and $27,500, for U.S. women the median income is down between $12,500 and $15,000!)</p>

	<p>Those numbers seem funny to me.  The U.S. accounts for about 4.5% of the world&#8217;s population.  A quarter of U.S. males and a tenth of U.S. females &#8211; that adds up to about 0.8% of the world&#8217;s population &#8211; fall in the top 0.9% of global incomes.  So eight out of nine of the world&#8217;s citizens with incomes greater than about $50,000 would be Americans.</p>

	<p>That doesn&#8217;t sound right to me, especially with the appreciation of the Euro these last few years.  I suspect that the Global Rich List calculator is income-wise comparing you, the individual worker, with not just the other workers of the world but <i>all</i> the world&#8217;s citizens, including dependent children and retirees.</p>
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		<title>By: ingrid robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65454</link>
		<dc:creator>ingrid robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65454</guid>
		<description>In response to Richard Bellamy&#039;s question: 

one of the small links on the website gives more info, and states that it is all about individual income. So what you need to do is to turn your household income in &quot;equivalised&quot; incomes, by using so-called &quot;equivalence scales&quot;. Economists have a whole literature on what the apprioriate equivalence scales are; I don&#039;t have any literature here at hand and haven&#039;t used this technique for years, but of the top of my head, such a set could look like 1 for the first adult, 0.7 for the second adult, and between 0.2 and 0.5 for each child, depending on their age. The idea behind these scales is that multi-person households can share many goods (like a fridge, or rooms), and that kids cost less than adults. By adding all income in the household up, and dividing by the sum of the scales, one tries to compare households of different size. 

The latest developments in this literature are  equivalence scales for disabled people, who often need much income to reach the same level of well-being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In response to Richard Bellamy&#8217;s question:</p>

	<p>one of the small links on the website gives more info, and states that it is all about individual income. So what you need to do is to turn your household income in &#8220;equivalised&#8221; incomes, by using so-called &#8220;equivalence scales&#8221;. Economists have a whole literature on what the apprioriate equivalence scales are; I don&#8217;t have any literature here at hand and haven&#8217;t used this technique for years, but of the top of my head, such a set could look like 1 for the first adult, 0.7 for the second adult, and between 0.2 and 0.5 for each child, depending on their age. The idea behind these scales is that multi-person households can share many goods (like a fridge, or rooms), and that kids cost less than adults. By adding all income in the household up, and dividing by the sum of the scales, one tries to compare households of different size.</p>

	<p>The latest developments in this literature are  equivalence scales for disabled people, who often need much income to reach the same level of well-being.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Rossman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65445</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel Rossman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65445</guid>
		<description>Chris, 

The peer group reference mechanism you&#039;re describing was used in: 
Jonathan Kelley; M. D. R. Evans. 1995. &quot;Class and Class Conflict in Six Western Nations&quot; American Sociological Review 60: 157-178.

you can find the piece in jstor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Chris,</p>

	<p>The peer group reference mechanism you&#8217;re describing was used in:<br />
Jonathan Kelley; M. D. R. Evans. 1995. &#8220;Class and Class Conflict in Six Western Nations&#8221; American Sociological Review 60: 157-178.</p>

	<p>you can find the piece in jstor</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bellamy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-65441</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bellamy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/on-being-super-rich/#comment-65441</guid>
		<description>Can someone unpack the numbers for me?  I work full time, my wife works part time, and I&#039;ve got two kids.  Is my income (a) just my salary; (b) my household salary; (c) my household salary divided by four?

It seems to make a relatively large difference between being about the (a) 50 millionth (b) 25 millionth or (c) 450 millionth richest person in the world.

Are two of the people I&#039;m &quot;richer than&quot; my kids?  While technically true, I think they probably have more stuff than I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Can someone unpack the numbers for me?  I work full time, my wife works part time, and I&#8217;ve got two kids.  Is my income (a) just my salary; (b) my household salary; (c) my household salary divided by four?</p>

	<p>It seems to make a relatively large difference between being about the (a) 50 millionth (b) 25 millionth or&#169; 450 millionth richest person in the world.</p>

	<p>Are two of the people I&#8217;m &#8220;richer than&#8221; my kids?  While technically true, I think they probably have more stuff than I do.</p>
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