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	<title>Comments on: Should we be scared of Uncle Sam ?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65827</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65827</guid>
		<description>Cranky, do you have a link?  24 hours at 7-10 knots, isn&#039;t very scary (yeah we can&#039;t hear it, but it can&#039;t go anywhere, and torpedoes don&#039;t go that far).  And then when it surfaces to charge batteries, and fires up that diesel, it is immediately picked up by the thousands of underwater sonar listening devices the USN has all over the Pacific.  If diesels were better than nuclears, the USSR and USA would have made different choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Cranky, do you have a link?  24 hours at 7-10 knots, isn&#8217;t very scary (yeah we can&#8217;t hear it, but it can&#8217;t go anywhere, and torpedoes don&#8217;t go that far).  And then when it surfaces to charge batteries, and fires up that diesel, it is immediately picked up by the thousands of underwater sonar listening devices the <span class="caps">USN</span> has all over the Pacific.  If diesels were better than nuclears, the <span class="caps">USSR</span> and <span class="caps">USA</span> would have made different choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65776</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65776</guid>
		<description>&gt; And if they want to be a threat in 20 years, they 
&gt; better start on their own nuclear subs and nuclear
&gt;  carriers now (those diesels won’t cut the 
&gt; mustard).

As best I can determine from the public literature, the US Navy is terrified of those diesel subs.  Due to advances in batteries and air scrubbers, they can stay underwater for 24-36 hours straight.  During which time they are absolutely, 100% silent - unlike a nuclear sub, which always has some level of thermally-generated noise from the reactor.

In fact, the USN just leased on of Sweden&#039;s advanced diesels for a year to see if they can find it in ASW exercises.

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> And if they want to be a threat in 20 years, they<br />
> better start on their own nuclear subs and nuclear<br />
>  carriers now (those diesels won&#8217;t cut the<br />
> mustard).</p>

	<p>As best I can determine from the public literature, the <span class="caps">US </span>Navy is terrified of those diesel subs.  Due to advances in batteries and air scrubbers, they can stay underwater for 24-36 hours straight.  During which time they are absolutely, 100% silent &#8211; unlike a nuclear sub, which always has some level of thermally-generated noise from the reactor.</p>

	<p>In fact, the <span class="caps">USN</span> just leased on of Sweden&#8217;s advanced diesels for a year to see if they can find it in <span class="caps">ASW</span> exercises.</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: jimbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65727</link>
		<dc:creator>jimbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65727</guid>
		<description>Floopmeister - 

I think the word you&#039;re looking for is &quot;reserve&quot; currency.  Virtually every currency in the world today (except for those, like Hong Kong, that are on a currency board system) are &quot;fiat&quot; currencies.  Which means that their deficits don&#039;t matter any more than the U.S.&#039;s does, at least not from a financial perspective - any currency issuing government in a floating rate regime faces no financial limits on it&#039;s spending (like, for example, Japan, which has had deficits consistantly in excess of 7% of GDP for years, while mantaining interest rates around 0%).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Floopmeister &#8211;<br />
I think the word you&#8217;re looking for is &#8220;reserve&#8221; currency.  Virtually every currency in the world today (except for those, like Hong Kong, that are on a currency board system) are &#8220;fiat&#8221; currencies.  Which means that their deficits don&#8217;t matter any more than the U.S.&#8217;s does, at least not from a financial perspective &#8211; any currency issuing government in a floating rate regime faces no financial limits on it&#8217;s spending (like, for example, Japan, which has had deficits consistantly in excess of 7% of <span class="caps">GDP</span> for years, while mantaining interest rates around 0%).</p>
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		<title>By: bob mcmanus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65714</link>
		<dc:creator>bob mcmanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65714</guid>
		<description>Three quotes from Brad Setser(links avoided without preview):

March 1:&quot;China intervenes almost exclusively in dollars, at least in the first instance -- Nomura has done some good work on this. What we don&#039;t know is what happens after China initially buys dollars; i.e. whether China converts any of the dollars it buys for renminbi into euros, pounds or yen. Increasingly, though, it looks like China keeps most of its reserves in dollars. It just does not use those dollars to buy Treasuries through channels that show up as a &quot;Chinese&quot; or a &quot;central&quot; purchase of US Treasuries in the US TIC data.&quot;

Feb 22:&quot;3) Just in case there are any aspiring currency strategists out there, one word of advice: official purchases of Treasuries (as reported in the TIC data) are an increasingly bad proxy for overall central bank purchases of dollar assets. Central banks could be buying Treasuries through intermediaries, or just buying a broader range of dollar-denominated assets.&quot;

Feb 15: &quot;One problem: the Treasury inflow data does not square with the data on global reserve accumulation. We know China&#039;s reserves, for example, increased by $36 billion in December. The dollar fell by about 3% against the euro in December, so even if China held $200 billion in euros, valuation gains only explain $6 billion of that increase ($200 billion is almost certainly too high of an estimate; in my most recent paper with Nouriel we estimated China&#039;s non-dollar reserves to be closer to $155 billion, but we don&#039;t really know). That leaves $30 billion in new reserves to invest. Most of that, presumably at least two-thirds, went into dollar assets -- that implies the People&#039;s Bank of China&#039;s dollar holdings went up by around $20 billion. 

That is more than the $10 billion in total official inflows in the December data, let alone the $2.7 billion increase in Chinese holdings of long-term Treasuries.

So what did China do with its growing reserves? Buy Treasuries through London broker dealers? Buy Agencies through intermediaries (foreigners bought $25.6 billion of agencies in December)? Buy corporate bonds through intermediaries? Build up its dollar deposits in the international banking system in the way that Japan did when it was intervening like mad at the end of last year? It clearly did something, and equally clearly, that something is not showing up in the broader US data.&quot;

But you tell me all of China&#039;s dollar-based asset are in an account at the Fed. No wonder so many of us get confused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Three quotes from Brad Setser(links avoided without preview):</p>

	<p>March 1:&#8221;China intervenes almost exclusively in dollars, at least in the first instance&#8212;Nomura has done some good work on this. What we don&#8217;t know is what happens after China initially buys dollars; i.e. whether China converts any of the dollars it buys for renminbi into euros, pounds or yen. Increasingly, though, it looks like China keeps most of its reserves in dollars. It just does not use those dollars to buy Treasuries through channels that show up as a &#8220;Chinese&#8221; or a &#8220;central&#8221; purchase of <span class="caps">US </span>Treasuries in the <span class="caps">US TIC</span> data.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Feb 22:&#8221;3) Just in case there are any aspiring currency strategists out there, one word of advice: official purchases of Treasuries (as reported in the <span class="caps">TIC</span> data) are an increasingly bad proxy for overall central bank purchases of dollar assets. Central banks could be buying Treasuries through intermediaries, or just buying a broader range of dollar-denominated assets.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Feb 15: &#8220;One problem: the Treasury inflow data does not square with the data on global reserve accumulation. We know China&#8217;s reserves, for example, increased by $36 billion in December. The dollar fell by about 3% against the euro in December, so even if China held $200 billion in euros, valuation gains only explain $6 billion of that increase ($200 billion is almost certainly too high of an estimate; in my most recent paper with Nouriel we estimated China&#8217;s non-dollar reserves to be closer to $155 billion, but we don&#8217;t really know). That leaves $30 billion in new reserves to invest. Most of that, presumably at least two-thirds, went into dollar assets&#8212;that implies the People&#8217;s Bank of China&#8217;s dollar holdings went up by around $20 billion.</p>

	<p>That is more than the $10 billion in total official inflows in the December data, let alone the $2.7 billion increase in Chinese holdings of long-term Treasuries.</p>

	<p>So what did China do with its growing reserves? Buy Treasuries through London broker dealers? Buy Agencies through intermediaries (foreigners bought $25.6 billion of agencies in December)? Buy corporate bonds through intermediaries? Build up its dollar deposits in the international banking system in the way that Japan did when it was intervening like mad at the end of last year? It clearly did something, and equally clearly, that something is not showing up in the broader US data.&#8221;</p>

	<p>But you tell me all of China&#8217;s dollar-based asset are in an account at the Fed. No wonder so many of us get confused.</p>
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		<title>By: floopmeister</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65710</link>
		<dc:creator>floopmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65710</guid>
		<description>Soth Korea = President Darth Maul?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Soth Korea = President Darth Maul?</p>
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		<title>By: floopmeister</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65709</link>
		<dc:creator>floopmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65709</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That means that the U.S. does not need anyone to “finance” anything – the government spends first, then soaks up any excess by issuing debt.&lt;/i&gt;

Ah, the US: paragon of economic conservatism and financial prudence. Just keep spending and damn the debt! Deficits don&#039;t matter, right?

Providing, of course, that the US dollar remains the world&#039;s only fiat currency. That is one of the great &#039;givens&#039; of the current system - the US dollar is the fiat currency, which allows the US to profligately &#039;issue debt&#039;. Other countries must have a pool of these dollars in which to trade (particularly for oil).

But this is changing, I suspect. Remember that Soth Korea injudiciously mentioned they were going to ditch a heap of their dollar holdings and the Dow Jones nosedived - other national banks are nervous and the Euro is becoming an alternative fiat currency.

That&#039;s when the chickens come home to roost. I wonder what US energy prices would be like at the pump if the US were forced to buy their oil in Euros, rather than dollars? Russia is thinking about it, ditto Norway, Venezuela and Iran. Iraq, of course, had already started selling in Euros.

So coincidental, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That means that the U.S. does not need anyone to &#8220;finance&#8221; anything &#8211; the government spends first, then soaks up any excess by issuing debt.</i></p>

	<p>Ah, the US: paragon of economic conservatism and financial prudence. Just keep spending and damn the debt! Deficits don&#8217;t matter, right?</p>

	<p>Providing, of course, that the US dollar remains the world&#8217;s only fiat currency. That is one of the great &#8216;givens&#8217; of the current system &#8211; the US dollar is the fiat currency, which allows the US to profligately &#8216;issue debt&#8217;. Other countries must have a pool of these dollars in which to trade (particularly for oil).</p>

	<p>But this is changing, I suspect. Remember that Soth Korea injudiciously mentioned they were going to ditch a heap of their dollar holdings and the Dow Jones nosedived &#8211; other national banks are nervous and the Euro is becoming an alternative fiat currency.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s when the chickens come home to roost. I wonder what US energy prices would be like at the pump if the US were forced to buy their oil in Euros, rather than dollars? Russia is thinking about it, ditto Norway, Venezuela and Iran. Iraq, of course, had already started selling in Euros.</p>

	<p>So coincidental, no?</p>
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		<title>By: jimbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65704</link>
		<dc:creator>jimbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65704</guid>
		<description>&quot;Umm, unless I am mistaken these are fungible securities that don’t have China’s name on them and we can’t “write off” China’s cash without writing off everyone else. Correct me if I am wrong.&quot;

Happy to.

Those securities consist of accounts at the Fed.  One phone call to Mr. Greenspan and they are frozen.  And like several people have said, our trade deficit with China is their problem, not ours.  Remember, we live in a floating exchange rate system.  That means that the U.S. does not need anyone to &quot;finance&quot; anything - the government spends first, then soaks up any excess by issuing debt.  If there were no more financial flows to China, there would be that much less excess to mop up.  (Of course, very few people on any side of the political debate seem to understand this or anything else about the mechanics of the financial system, but that doesn&#039;t change how it works...)

But there isn&#039;t going to be a war a with China.  The Pentagon has been trying to build them up as the beg bad bogeyman ever since the Berlin Wall fell, but it just doesn&#039;t wash.  They and we might talk big about Taiwan, but we both just have too much to lose to actually do anything.

And can I remind people of a little thing known as the a-bomb?  Y&#039;know, that neat little device that makes &quot;all out war&quot; between great powers obsolete?  I mean, &quot;land war in Asia&quot;?  What is this, &quot;The Princess Bride&quot;? 

&quot;You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means...&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Umm, unless I am mistaken these are fungible securities that don&#8217;t have China&#8217;s name on them and we can&#8217;t &#8220;write off&#8221; China&#8217;s cash without writing off everyone else. Correct me if I am wrong.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Happy to.</p>

	<p>Those securities consist of accounts at the Fed.  One phone call to Mr. Greenspan and they are frozen.  And like several people have said, our trade deficit with China is their problem, not ours.  Remember, we live in a floating exchange rate system.  That means that the U.S. does not need anyone to &#8220;finance&#8221; anything &#8211; the government spends first, then soaks up any excess by issuing debt.  If there were no more financial flows to China, there would be that much less excess to mop up.  (Of course, very few people on any side of the political debate seem to understand this or anything else about the mechanics of the financial system, but that doesn&#8217;t change how it works&#8230;)</p>

	<p>But there isn&#8217;t going to be a war a with China.  The Pentagon has been trying to build them up as the beg bad bogeyman ever since the Berlin Wall fell, but it just doesn&#8217;t wash.  They and we might talk big about Taiwan, but we both just have too much to lose to actually do anything.</p>

	<p>And can I remind people of a little thing known as the a-bomb?  Y&#8217;know, that neat little device that makes &#8220;all out war&#8221; between great powers obsolete?  I mean, &#8220;land war in Asia&#8221;?  What is this, &#8220;The Princess Bride&#8221;?</p>

	<p>&#8220;You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means&#8230;&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: bob mcmanus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65691</link>
		<dc:creator>bob mcmanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65691</guid>
		<description>&quot;Remember, the US would just write off all that Chinese “cash”, and China would be left with $400b in poor quality toilet paper&quot;

Umm, unless I am mistaken these are fungible securities that don&#039;t have China&#039;s name on them and we can&#039;t &quot;write off&quot; China&#039;s cash without writing off everyone else. Correct me if I am wrong.

Now maybe we could survive the worldwide depression better than most, including China, but China has more experience at handling famine and applying repression. Bushco has gained valuable experience in Iraq, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Remember, the US would just write off all that Chinese &#8220;cash&#8221;, and China would be left with $400b in poor quality toilet paper&#8221;</p>

	<p>Umm, unless I am mistaken these are fungible securities that don&#8217;t have China&#8217;s name on them and we can&#8217;t &#8220;write off&#8221; China&#8217;s cash without writing off everyone else. Correct me if I am wrong.</p>

	<p>Now maybe we could survive the worldwide depression better than most, including China, but China has more experience at handling famine and applying repression. Bushco has gained valuable experience in Iraq, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65679</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65679</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The unquestioned assumption of US military superiority is going to get a lot of US boys and girls killed some day soon.&lt;/i&gt;

Soon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The unquestioned assumption of US military superiority is going to get a lot of US boys and girls killed some day soon.</i></p>

	<p>Soon?</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65671</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65671</guid>
		<description>Cranky,
What does &quot;all out war&quot; mean?  Could the US conquer China?  Probably not.  Japan was more bloody than the US could ever be, and couldn&#039;t after 10 years.  

My quote is about blue sea supiority.  And China won&#039;t be a threat to the US blue sea navy in 10 years.  And if they want to be a threat in 20 years, they better start on their own nuclear subs and nuclear carriers now (those diesels won&#039;t cut the mustard).

It might also serve to note that every nation in the world thought the US would have more problems with the Iraqi army in 2002.  When leading generals in the Russian army are discussing the surprising ease with which the US defeated the Iraqis and comenting on drastic paradigm changes required to counter the US military, there might be something to the widespread rumors of US military domiance. 

But we really don&#039;t want a war with China.
If there was a war, probably most people on Taiwan would be dead, China would no longer be the largest population and would be the largest receiver of UN food aid.  The world would enter a prolonged depression.  

And if China suffered too humiliating a defeat, there might be some additional nuclear radiation in the Atlantic under the previous locations of US carrier groups which would explain the drastically increased radiation levels in the US and China.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Cranky,<br />
What does &#8220;all out war&#8221; mean?  Could the US conquer China?  Probably not.  Japan was more bloody than the US could ever be, and couldn&#8217;t after 10 years.</p>

	<p>My quote is about blue sea supiority.  And China won&#8217;t be a threat to the US blue sea navy in 10 years.  And if they want to be a threat in 20 years, they better start on their own nuclear subs and nuclear carriers now (those diesels won&#8217;t cut the mustard).</p>

	<p>It might also serve to note that every nation in the world thought the US would have more problems with the Iraqi army in 2002.  When leading generals in the Russian army are discussing the surprising ease with which the US defeated the Iraqis and comenting on drastic paradigm changes required to counter the US military, there might be something to the widespread rumors of US military domiance.</p>

	<p>But we really don&#8217;t want a war with China.<br />
If there was a war, probably most people on Taiwan would be dead, China would no longer be the largest population and would be the largest receiver of UN food aid.  The world would enter a prolonged depression.</p>

	<p>And if China suffered too humiliating a defeat, there might be some additional nuclear radiation in the Atlantic under the previous locations of US carrier groups which would explain the drastically increased radiation levels in the US and China.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65665</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65665</guid>
		<description>&gt; For two, the US Navy will control the blue seas 
&gt; without a doubt.

You know, much as I deride Clancy-ism among the Radical Right, it does help to read the military-industrial trade press regularly.  Particularly if you include some pubs not based in the US on your reading list.

Could the US win an all-out war with China today?  Probably.  Would it be easy or bloodless?  No.  In 5 years?  Well, probably.  In 10 years?  Very, very good question.

The unquestioned assumption of US military superiority is going to get a lot of US boys and girls killed some day soon.

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> For two, the <span class="caps">US </span>Navy will control the blue seas<br />
> without a doubt.</p>

	<p>You know, much as I deride Clancy-ism among the Radical Right, it does help to read the military-industrial trade press regularly.  Particularly if you include some pubs not based in the US on your reading list.</p>

	<p>Could the US win an all-out war with China today?  Probably.  Would it be easy or bloodless?  No.  In 5 years?  Well, probably.  In 10 years?  Very, very good question.</p>

	<p>The unquestioned assumption of US military superiority is going to get a lot of US boys and girls killed some day soon.</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65642</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65642</guid>
		<description>My understanding of the economics (cough) is roughly consistent with Jet&#039;s.  The US trade deficit to China is largely China&#039;s problem, if the two go to war.  But I&#039;d be interested in hearing from an economic historian, someone like Galbraith.  (Anybody here want to claim to be like Galbraith?)  Big conflicts often start from this sort of financial train-wreck, but not always in the way that seems most likely.  Has there ever been a great power situation analogous to this one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My understanding of the economics (cough) is roughly consistent with Jet&#8217;s.  The US trade deficit to China is largely China&#8217;s problem, if the two go to war.  But I&#8217;d be interested in hearing from an economic historian, someone like Galbraith.  (Anybody here want to claim to be like Galbraith?)  Big conflicts often start from this sort of financial train-wreck, but not always in the way that seems most likely.  Has there ever been a great power situation analogous to this one?</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65627</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65627</guid>
		<description>China would look at full economic collapse if it went to war with the US.  For one, no more exports to the US.  For two, the US Navy will control the blue seas without a doubt.  So no Chinese exports to anywhere except the Russian railroad.  For three, even if the pussification of Europe is complete, the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Taiwan from the first minutes of missiles and artillery would at least cause Europe to side with the US, if not actually agree to help.    For four, the US doesn&#039;t have to win a ground war, just hold the shores of Taiwan for 6 months until the unemployment riots and starving villagers revolt.  For five, it won&#039;t be much of a surprise invasion given that China will have to dismantle a huge naval mine field protecting Taiwan (remember, it is an island, think strategy folks, the only infantry to walk on water was Jesus).

Until China is fielding nuclear powered air craft carriers and not economically completely dependent on their opponent (the US would barely be harmed, as those cheap factories would find a home somewhere else after a huge round of subsidies and the US gets to write off $400b in deabt), China will not go to war.  Remember, the US would just write off all that Chinese &quot;cash&quot;, and China would be left with $400b in poor quality toilet paper.  China was just plain stupid to &quot;pay&quot; for the US growth on notes that will become uncollectable if they try to take Taiwan.  Kind of put themselves in a Catch-22 situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>China would look at full economic collapse if it went to war with the US.  For one, no more exports to the US.  For two, the <span class="caps">US </span>Navy will control the blue seas without a doubt.  So no Chinese exports to anywhere except the Russian railroad.  For three, even if the pussification of Europe is complete, the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Taiwan from the first minutes of missiles and artillery would at least cause Europe to side with the US, if not actually agree to help.    For four, the US doesn&#8217;t have to win a ground war, just hold the shores of Taiwan for 6 months until the unemployment riots and starving villagers revolt.  For five, it won&#8217;t be much of a surprise invasion given that China will have to dismantle a huge naval mine field protecting Taiwan (remember, it is an island, think strategy folks, the only infantry to walk on water was Jesus).</p>

	<p>Until China is fielding nuclear powered air craft carriers and not economically completely dependent on their opponent (the US would barely be harmed, as those cheap factories would find a home somewhere else after a huge round of subsidies and the US gets to write off $400b in deabt), China will not go to war.  Remember, the US would just write off all that Chinese &#8220;cash&#8221;, and China would be left with $400b in poor quality toilet paper.  China was just plain stupid to &#8220;pay&#8221; for the US growth on notes that will become uncollectable if they try to take Taiwan.  Kind of put themselves in a Catch-22 situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65610</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65610</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The US is on extremely shaky financial ground if it decides to have a go at China. But I’ll bet they don’t mention the deficit much on US television.&lt;/i&gt;

That poor woman in Florida is being deliberately starved to death by evil liberals!

Who&#039;s up for some college basketball? It&#039;s MARCH MADNESS!

Will Demi and Ashton be tying the knot?

What&#039;s a trade deficit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The US is on extremely shaky financial ground if it decides to have a go at China. But I&#8217;ll bet they don&#8217;t mention the deficit much on US television.</i></p>

	<p>That poor woman in Florida is being deliberately starved to death by evil liberals!</p>

	<p>Who&#8217;s up for some college basketball? It&#8217;s <span class="caps">MARCH MADNESS</span>!</p>

	<p>Will Demi and Ashton be tying the knot?</p>

	<p>What&#8217;s a trade deficit?</p>
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		<title>By: winston</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/comment-page-2/#comment-65602</link>
		<dc:creator>winston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/30/should-we-be-scared-of-uncle-sam/#comment-65602</guid>
		<description>Floopmeister said &lt;i&gt;&quot;I believe that Howard, much as I viscerally dislike the man and all he stands for, will only stand by a visibly fading US for so long. China is who we will be living with in 20 years, and India. That’s our reality.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I couldn&#039;t agree more with this - the disintegration of the basis of US power is proceeding remarkably quickly, and Australia has little to gain and much to lose my associating ourselves too closely with the US in future.

I&#039;m surprised that as many Australians are worried by islamic terrorism as they are about the dangers posed by a decaying empire run by what seems to be a group of people who are basically fascists (carefully rebranding themselves as neoconservatives).

The dangers of islamic terrorism have been utterly over-hyped (and it was good to see Justice Kirby pointing this out in front of the head of ASIO recently). There is a great BBC documentary called &quot;The Power Of Nightmares&quot; which describes whats really going on perfectly - anyone who hasn&#039;t seen it should spend some time watching it to understand the relationship between the american neoconservatives and the islamic fundamentalists.

I know who I&#039;m more worried about.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0126-30.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

Mil says elsewhere &lt;i&gt;&quot;As for the FTA issue, maybe my friends are skewed because they’re mostly online, IT-industry people, but one huge, huge problem they have with a U.S. FTA is that it requires partial to complete acceptance of the U.S.’s completely and utterly insane IP laws, which would probably allow spurious-patent-holding U.S. companies to shut down virtually the entire Australian software industry in courts of law, whenever they felt like it. “But they won’t! IP law is never used in unreasonable ways like that!” is not convincing.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Hear, hear - I simply can&#039;t understand how our interests were simply sold out by the government when the &quot;Free&quot; Trade Agreement was negotiated - no Australian Prime Minister from Menzies onward would have done anything other than laugh when presented with such a travesty, yet Howard has promoted it as some sort of gain for us with absolutely no evidence to back this up...
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Floopmeister said <i>&#8220;I believe that Howard, much as I viscerally dislike the man and all he stands for, will only stand by a visibly fading US for so long. China is who we will be living with in 20 years, and India. That&#8217;s our reality.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more with this &#8211; the disintegration of the basis of US power is proceeding remarkably quickly, and Australia has little to gain and much to lose my associating ourselves too closely with the US in future.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m surprised that as many Australians are worried by islamic terrorism as they are about the dangers posed by a decaying empire run by what seems to be a group of people who are basically fascists (carefully rebranding themselves as neoconservatives).</p>

	<p>The dangers of islamic terrorism have been utterly over-hyped (and it was good to see Justice Kirby pointing this out in front of the head of <span class="caps">ASIO</span> recently). There is a great <span class="caps">BBC</span> documentary called &#8220;The Power Of Nightmares&#8221; which describes whats really going on perfectly &#8211; anyone who hasn&#8217;t seen it should spend some time watching it to understand the relationship between the american neoconservatives and the islamic fundamentalists.</p>

	<p>I know who I&#8217;m more worried about.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0126-30.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0126-30.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm</a></p>

	<p>Mil says elsewhere <i>&#8220;As for the <span class="caps">FTA</span> issue, maybe my friends are skewed because they&#8217;re mostly online, IT-industry people, but one huge, huge problem they have with a U.S. <span class="caps">FTA</span> is that it requires partial to complete acceptance of the U.S.&#8217;s completely and utterly insane IP laws, which would probably allow spurious-patent-holding U.S. companies to shut down virtually the entire Australian software industry in courts of law, whenever they felt like it. &#8220;But they won&#8217;t! IP law is never used in unreasonable ways like that!&#8221; is not convincing.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Hear, hear &#8211; I simply can&#8217;t understand how our interests were simply sold out by the government when the &#8220;Free&#8221; Trade Agreement was negotiated &#8211; no Australian Prime Minister from Menzies onward would have done anything other than laugh when presented with such a travesty, yet Howard has promoted it as some sort of gain for us with absolutely no evidence to back this up&#8230;</p>
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