Comments on: How to Write a Newspaper Article http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 26 May 2012 16:25:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Uncle Kvetch http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66290 Uncle Kvetch Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:26:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66290 <i>I was trying to find an archive of Bill O’Reilly criticizing the Pope for being opposed to the Iraq war.</i> Here y'go, Joe: <i>But as I’ve said before, I believe also that John Paul is naive and detached from reality. If America does not lead an attack on Iraq, once again, Saddam remains in power and is free to use his anthrax and other terrible weapons as he chooses. So the pope does not seem to be concerned about that or about Saddam’s behavior in general. Once again, he must know Saddam is a killer. He must know he’s oppressed his own people using murder and torture. He must know that. [Snip] Summing up, Jacques Chirac is our enemy, and the pope, well, I don’t know what to think.</i> Source: http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=561 I was trying to find an archive of Bill O’Reilly criticizing the Pope for being opposed to the Iraq war.

Here y’go, Joe:

But as I’ve said before, I believe also that John Paul is naive and detached from reality. If America does not lead an attack on Iraq, once again, Saddam remains in power and is free to use his anthrax and other terrible weapons as he chooses.

So the pope does not seem to be concerned about that or about Saddam’s behavior in general. Once again, he must know Saddam is a killer. He must know he’s oppressed his own people using murder and torture. He must know that.

[Snip]

Summing up, Jacques Chirac is our enemy, and the pope, well, I don’t know what to think.

Source: http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=561

]]> By: monica http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66270 monica Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:11:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66270 Basharov, the Vatican is a political institution not to mention a State, it's not an activist organisation, they couldn't have employed the Pope and 30 cardinals as human shields even if they'd wanted to. No more than France could have sent De Villepin as a human shield. If we want to be realistic, that is. On the other hand, being a State with its own political - and financial - institutions as well as a religious church, means the Vatican has its own diplomacy and intelligence, which definitely have more power than activist organisations. For better and for worse. See under Pinochet, Franco, etc. The fact they didn't single-handedly stop the US from invading Iraq doesn't mean the anti-war stance was left to just a few calls for peace in papal sermons. There were <a href="http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:ciQk6ESZfG8J:www.iht.com/articles/87496.html" rel="nofollow">publicly</a> known <a href="http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/030703/030703i.htm" rel="nofollow">diplomatic</a> efforts such as meetings with Blair and Tareq Aziz, then there was the usual behind the scenes diplomatic work. Of course even they knew they could not stop the US, but not even a military power could have. If you're going to judge the strength of an anti-war stance by the effects it obtains when the pro-war side is the USA, then forget about it. The Vatican also had their own very pragmatic interests in wanting to prevent a war, not least wanting to avoid clashes with the Arab and Muslim world, and the fact that under Saddam the Christian minorities in the area had been protected from Islamic fundamentalists. Basharov, the Vatican is a political institution not to mention a State, it’s not an activist organisation, they couldn’t have employed the Pope and 30 cardinals as human shields even if they’d wanted to. No more than France could have sent De Villepin as a human shield. If we want to be realistic, that is.

On the other hand, being a State with its own political – and financial – institutions as well as a religious church, means the Vatican has its own diplomacy and intelligence, which definitely have more power than activist organisations. For better and for worse. See under Pinochet, Franco, etc.

The fact they didn’t single-handedly stop the US from invading Iraq doesn’t mean the anti-war stance was left to just a few calls for peace in papal sermons. There were publicly known diplomatic efforts such as meetings with Blair and Tareq Aziz, then there was the usual behind the scenes diplomatic work. Of course even they knew they could not stop the US, but not even a military power could have. If you’re going to judge the strength of an anti-war stance by the effects it obtains when the pro-war side is the USA, then forget about it.

The Vatican also had their own very pragmatic interests in wanting to prevent a war, not least wanting to avoid clashes with the Arab and Muslim world, and the fact that under Saddam the Christian minorities in the area had been protected from Islamic fundamentalists.

]]> By: Basharov http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66265 Basharov Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:30:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66265 <i>Those who think the Pope did not value all human life including Iraq, forget how he argued with Bush to not go there.</i> I kind of forget, too. When did he "argue with Bush"? He said he was against the war, but then he didn't actually <i>do</i> anything to stop it other than the usual ineffectual "prayers for peace". If he'd hopped on a plane to Baghdad with about 30 of his Cardinals and then stood in solidarity with the protestors there who had put their own lives on the line, I don't think even Dubya would have pumped his fist in the air and said "Feels good!" as he launched "shock and awe." Those who think the Pope did not value all human life including Iraq, forget how he argued with Bush to not go there.

I kind of forget, too. When did he “argue with Bush”? He said he was against the war, but then he didn’t actually do anything to stop it other than the usual ineffectual “prayers for peace”. If he’d hopped on a plane to Baghdad with about 30 of his Cardinals and then stood in solidarity with the protestors there who had put their own lives on the line, I don’t think even Dubya would have pumped his fist in the air and said “Feels good!” as he launched “shock and awe.”

]]> By: DogFoNam http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66227 DogFoNam Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:41:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66227 All churches, everywhere, everyday, should be in a constant screaming mode of railing against the Iraqi bushWar. This war as most wars are 100% anti-Christ-wars. If any christain church does not continually shout this then that church and all of it's followers/members are not christains and I include the Pope and whomever becomes the next Pope. Just speaking occasionally about your opposition to a war while everyday that passes sees more and more death and destruction from that war is not good enough. There is no such thing as a part-time christain. Now there's a mirror for you. All churches, everywhere, everyday, should be in a constant screaming mode of railing against the Iraqi bushWar. This war as most wars are 100% anti-Christ-wars. If any christain church does not continually shout this then that church and all of it’s followers/members are not christains and I include the Pope and whomever becomes the next Pope.
Just speaking occasionally about your opposition to a war while everyday that passes sees more and more death and destruction from that war is not good enough. There is no such thing as a part-time christain.
Now there’s a mirror for you.

]]> By: Joe Fields http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66219 Joe Fields Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:44:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66219 I was trying to find an archive of Bill O'Reilly criticizing the Pope for being opposed to the Iraq war. It was between 12/02 and 4/03. Why did nobody from the media defend the pope then? I figure it is because the media ia a paid mouthpieces repeating bush propaganda. Is this the liberal media bias I hear so much about?? I was trying to find an archive of Bill O’Reilly criticizing the Pope for being opposed to the Iraq war. It was between 12/02 and 4/03. Why did nobody from the media defend the pope then? I figure it is because the media ia a paid mouthpieces repeating bush propaganda. Is this the liberal media bias I hear so much about??

]]> By: monica http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66214 monica Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:58:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66214 Speaking of attempts to pigeon-hole JPII as a standard issue American conservative, did anyone see Colin Powell on CNN going on and on about how this pope brought down communism *and* how he was all for freedom and democracy just like Bush? He made him sound like a pioneer of the neocons. Not a peep on all those angry speeches (literally, with fists being raised and all) Karol had been making since the 80's against war, against military and economic imperialism, he even spoke of redistributing wealth and bridging the gap with the poorer countries, and ok, he didn't say that from a communist perspective, obviously, but still, not from a "compassionate conservative" perspective either... Not to mention the stance against the death penalty - and, no matter how much of it was or was not reported in US media, I don't know that, he really did a lot in that sense. At least until 2000 or so. It wasn't just speeches. Vatican diplomacy was always very active in that sense and they worked also with human rights ngo's. The condemnation of war was unequivocal. Again, not just speeches, but political and diplomatic work. Meeting Saddam's number II included. It was just so unbelievable to watch Powell sit there and pretend that was not their strongest anti-war opponent since the fist Gulf War. One of the most shameless acts of post-mortem appropriation ever. Not yet underground, and he's already Wolfowitz II. I should have expected it, but it still came as a shock. That, and the Schiavo comparison. Oh, he died just two days after her, and he also had a feeding tube inserted! wow, that makes their situation so similar! How about him not being anywhere near a vegetative state, and dying at 84, not 27 or 40? Guess that's just a small detail! We can still file that amazing coincidence of dying two days apart under the "culture of life" section. If Prince Ranier of Monaco had just died the same day too, with a feeding tube inserted in his nose as well, my, wouldn't editors all over the world have been even luckier. Speaking of attempts to pigeon-hole JPII as a standard issue American conservative, did anyone see Colin Powell on CNN going on and on about how this pope brought down communism and how he was all for freedom and democracy just like Bush? He made him sound like a pioneer of the neocons. Not a peep on all those angry speeches (literally, with fists being raised and all) Karol had been making since the 80’s against war, against military and economic imperialism, he even spoke of redistributing wealth and bridging the gap with the poorer countries, and ok, he didn’t say that from a communist perspective, obviously, but still, not from a “compassionate conservative” perspective either… Not to mention the stance against the death penalty – and, no matter how much of it was or was not reported in US media, I don’t know that, he really did a lot in that sense. At least until 2000 or so. It wasn’t just speeches. Vatican diplomacy was always very active in that sense and they worked also with human rights ngo’s. The condemnation of war was unequivocal. Again, not just speeches, but political and diplomatic work. Meeting Saddam’s number II included. It was just so unbelievable to watch Powell sit there and pretend that was not their strongest anti-war opponent since the fist Gulf War. One of the most shameless acts of post-mortem appropriation ever. Not yet underground, and he’s already Wolfowitz II. I should have expected it, but it still came as a shock.

That, and the Schiavo comparison. Oh, he died just two days after her, and he also had a feeding tube inserted! wow, that makes their situation so similar! How about him not being anywhere near a vegetative state, and dying at 84, not 27 or 40? Guess that’s just a small detail! We can still file that amazing coincidence of dying two days apart under the “culture of life” section. If Prince Ranier of Monaco had just died the same day too, with a feeding tube inserted in his nose as well, my, wouldn’t editors all over the world have been even luckier.

]]> By: Brian http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66148 Brian Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:15:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66148 I certainly wasn't meaning to make any point about NYT-bias here, I just thought it was funny that the copy editing notes made it onto the page. Well, there is one substantive point. Namely that everyone trying to fit orthodox Catholic views (anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-euthanasia, relatively pro-poverty relief programs, pro-evolution teaching etc) into standard American political discourse will always face a square peg-round hole problem. Trying to pigeon hole JPII as a standard issue American conservative is a disservice to him, whether it is being done by those on the left or on the right. Still, given how <i>unpopular</i> that basket of views is in America, it perhaps isn't too surprising that they had to shop around a bit for an unreservedly supporting quote. I certainly wasn’t meaning to make any point about NYT-bias here, I just thought it was funny that the copy editing notes made it onto the page.

Well, there is one substantive point. Namely that everyone trying to fit orthodox Catholic views (anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-euthanasia, relatively pro-poverty relief programs, pro-evolution teaching etc) into standard American political discourse will always face a square peg-round hole problem. Trying to pigeon hole JPII as a standard issue American conservative is a disservice to him, whether it is being done by those on the left or on the right. Still, given how unpopular that basket of views is in America, it perhaps isn’t too surprising that they had to shop around a bit for an unreservedly supporting quote.

]]> By: winterfire http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66144 winterfire Sun, 03 Apr 2005 18:02:55 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66144 You just have to wonder what that itenerent sage, Yeshua bin Yosef, would think about all of the wealth and pomp that is Rome. As Popes go, John Paul II was a good Pope. I just wonder what Jesus would think about Pope Mobiles and Lear Jets. I wonder what he would think of the wealth of the Baptist Convention in America and wild-eyed, hate-filled white men threatening people in his name? Here was a man who had no home and walked everywhere he went, except for that one Donkey ride into Jerusalem, and who never tried of railing about hypocricy and insulting the corrupt religious authorities of his day. Blessed are the poor... That would should rule out the Churches, and most religious leaders. You just have to wonder what that itenerent sage, Yeshua bin Yosef, would think about all of the wealth and pomp that is Rome. As Popes go, John Paul II was a good Pope. I just wonder what Jesus would think about Pope Mobiles and Lear Jets.

I wonder what he would think of the wealth of the Baptist Convention in America and wild-eyed, hate-filled white men threatening people in his name?

Here was a man who had no home and walked everywhere he went, except for that one Donkey ride into Jerusalem, and who never tried of railing about hypocricy and insulting the corrupt religious authorities of his day.

Blessed are the poor…

That would should rule out the Churches, and most religious leaders.

]]> By: dgoodie http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66142 dgoodie Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:55:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66142 Those who think the Pope did not value all human life including Iraq, forget how he argued with Bush to not go there. As he argued for all human life causes. But bush has long had a history of the disregard for anyone except those who kiss his boots. How about the deaths of so many prisoners while he was "gov" of Texas regardless of their mental state or innocence. How about the Texas 1999 "anti-Shaivo" law he signed that allowed ill patients to be disconnected against any wishes and in 2003 that law was expanded to include minors to pediatrics regardless of parental wishes. And the biggest factor in the law is the patient or family's ability to PAY. And now criticize the Pope about Iraq!! An ounce of his Grace would do us all good in recognizing how the evil of those in power worldwide is spreading and why. Those who think the Pope did not value all human life including Iraq, forget how he argued with Bush to not go there. As he argued for all human life causes. But bush has long had a history of the disregard for anyone except those who kiss his boots. How about the deaths of so many prisoners while he was “gov” of Texas regardless of their mental state or innocence. How about the Texas 1999 “anti-Shaivo” law he signed that allowed ill patients to be disconnected against any wishes and in 2003 that law was expanded to include minors to pediatrics regardless of parental wishes. And the biggest factor in the law is the patient or family’s ability to PAY. And now criticize the Pope about Iraq!! An ounce of his Grace would do us all good in recognizing how the evil of those in power worldwide is spreading and why.

]]> By: Mithras http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66141 Mithras Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:28:08 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66141 Holsclaw, having trouble recognizing your own character? <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001975.htm" rel="nofollow">Here's the mirror</a>. Holsclaw, having trouble recognizing your own character? Here’s the mirror.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66136 abb1 Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:07:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66136 Oh, and when I browsed comments on that page, I got an impression that a few people there opined along the lines that the dead children on the photo were not really <i>innocent life</i> - for a variety of reasons. I thought that was interesting and kinda relevant to this <i>views on the sanctity of all human life echoed unambiguously among Catholics and Christian evangelicals</i> thingy in the above piece. Oh, and when I browsed comments on that page, I got an impression that a few people there opined along the lines that the dead children on the photo were not really innocent life – for a variety of reasons. I thought that was interesting and kinda relevant to this views on the sanctity of all human life echoed unambiguously among Catholics and Christian evangelicals thingy in the above piece.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66135 abb1 Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:59:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66135 FWIW: the photo's on this page: <a href="http://abutamam.blogspot.com/2005/03/obliterated-fallujah-horrid-case.html" rel="nofollow">Free Iraq</a>. It's titled "Dead children in 'Liberated' Fallujah". There's some dicussion concerning authenticity there as well, but, of course, no one can guarantee anything. FWIW: the photo’s on this page: Free Iraq. It’s titled “Dead children in ‘Liberated’ Fallujah”. There’s some dicussion concerning authenticity there as well, but, of course, no one can guarantee anything.

]]> By: Sebastian Holsclaw http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66133 Sebastian Holsclaw Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:19:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66133 "It’s actually not SO easy finding an American supporter of his views on contraception or his handling of the abuse scandal or infallibility and suspending theologians who wouldn’t toe the line—there are plenty but they’re vastly outnumbered among lay Catholics. But that’s beside the point—the point is, it’s just who the reporter called when or who called back when or who he’d called before." The article wasn't about his view on contraception it was about his life in general. The article wasn't about American views it was about world views, see the other quotes. It is exceedingly easy to find supporters for his role against Communism both among Catholics and non-Catholics. Furthermore his death was not unexpected, so the time pressure for quotes/who called me back excuse is very thin. Lastly I don't even know what you mean by Malkin impression. It is apparently some sort of insult but I have no idea what it has to do with the argument. I read her maybe once every other month. I'm not even a Catholic and I think it is ridiculous for a NYT writer to try to sum up the pope's tenure as being all about contraception. “It’s actually not SO easy finding an American supporter of his views on contraception or his handling of the abuse scandal or infallibility and suspending theologians who wouldn’t toe the line—there are plenty but they’re vastly outnumbered among lay Catholics. But that’s beside the point—the point is, it’s just who the reporter called when or who called back when or who he’d called before.”

The article wasn’t about his view on contraception it was about his life in general. The article wasn’t about American views it was about world views, see the other quotes. It is exceedingly easy to find supporters for his role against Communism both among Catholics and non-Catholics. Furthermore his death was not unexpected, so the time pressure for quotes/who called me back excuse is very thin. Lastly I don’t even know what you mean by Malkin impression. It is apparently some sort of insult but I have no idea what it has to do with the argument. I read her maybe once every other month. I’m not even a Catholic and I think it is ridiculous for a NYT writer to try to sum up the pope’s tenure as being all about contraception.

]]> By: W Basher http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66118 W Basher Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:32:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66118 abb1: “Not these people in Fallujah, apparently” The photograph is of children sleeping around an American tank. They aren't dead. Not that there aren't plenty of dead ones somewhere else, I'm sure. More evidence of the culture of life at work. abb1: “Not these people in Fallujah, apparently”

The photograph is of children sleeping around an American tank. They aren’t dead.

Not that there aren’t plenty of dead ones somewhere else, I’m sure.

More evidence of the culture of life at work.

]]> By: Hedley Lamarr http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/comment-page-1/#comment-66115 Hedley Lamarr Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:52:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/02/how-to-write-a-newspaper-article/#comment-66115 What about the odd belief that because no women were at the head table of the Last Supper, no females need apply to the priesthood? What about the odd belief that because no women were at the head table of the Last Supper, no females need apply to the priesthood?

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