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	<title>Comments on: This Year&#8217;s Model</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: bluemax</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69843</link>
		<dc:creator>bluemax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69843</guid>
		<description>Can you use betting market data rather than poll data ? Betfair users don&#039;t lie about their intentions. Converting the current prices and weight of money indicators into percentage votes might be enlightening (I&#039;d do it myself, but I&#039;m busy canvassing...). The results of your model might then inform some gambling in an unholy howl of feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Can you use betting market data rather than poll data ? Betfair users don&#8217;t lie about their intentions. Converting the current prices and weight of money indicators into percentage votes might be enlightening (I&#8217;d do it myself, but I&#8217;m busy canvassing&#8230;). The results of your model might then inform some gambling in an unholy howl of feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69792</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69792</guid>
		<description>Fan&lt;em&gt;tas&lt;/em&gt;tic! That&#039;s one Excel spreadsheet[*] I&#039;ll be glad not to see.

[*] among many</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Fan<em>tas</em>tic! That&#8217;s one Excel spreadsheet[*] I&#8217;ll be glad not to see.</p>

	<p>[*] among many</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69719</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69719</guid>
		<description>I am going to do my own triangular plot.  I am going to do it in Excel, with a macro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am going to do my own triangular plot.  I am going to do it in Excel, with a macro.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69645</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 20:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69645</guid>
		<description>I always thought that the only reason the Lib Dems won Hallam in 97 was that I was stood outside a polling station trying to persuade everyone to vote Labour. More fool me.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always thought that the only reason the Lib Dems won Hallam in 97 was that I was stood outside a polling station trying to persuade everyone to vote Labour. More fool me.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69489</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69489</guid>
		<description>Daniel -- is it possible for you to plot up the regions of different party control on a triangular homogeneous-coordinates diagram (i.e., like &lt;a href=&quot;http://election.beasts.org/triangle.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;)? Alternatively if you chuck me a copy of the spreadsheet I can probably manage it, though since you seem to have a love-love relationship with Excel it would probably be easier for you to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Daniel&#8212;is it possible for you to plot up the regions of different party control on a triangular homogeneous-coordinates diagram (i.e., like <a href="http://election.beasts.org/triangle.png" rel="nofollow">this one</a>)? Alternatively if you chuck me a copy of the spreadsheet I can probably manage it, though since you seem to have a love-love relationship with Excel it would probably be easier for you to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69458</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69458</guid>
		<description>I think that the convention among we electoral forecasters is that you forecast Great Britain and assume that there will be 15 Ulster Unionists of one stripe or another who group with the Tories.  Certainly, nothing I do to the main party vote shares has any seats changing hands in Northern Ireland so I don&#039;t think I have that precise problem.

Mr. Mouse:  remember that this is not a causal model; I&#039;m describing a statistical relation here, which (I think) has the interpretation given above.  There are plenty of positive swings to LD which have them gaining seats; the split 33C, 37L, 25LD which I am looking at on my screen right now has them picking up 12 seats.  They still lose Sheffield Hallam even in this scenario though, because in my model it is basically a Tory seat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think that the convention among we electoral forecasters is that you forecast Great Britain and assume that there will be 15 Ulster Unionists of one stripe or another who group with the Tories.  Certainly, nothing I do to the main party vote shares has any seats changing hands in Northern Ireland so I don&#8217;t think I have that precise problem.</p>

	<p>Mr. Mouse:  remember that this is not a causal model; I&#8217;m describing a statistical relation here, which (I think) has the interpretation given above.  There are plenty of positive swings to LD which have them gaining seats; the split 33C, 37L, 25LD which I am looking at on my screen right now has them picking up 12 seats.  They still lose Sheffield Hallam even in this scenario though, because in my model it is basically a Tory seat.</p>
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		<title>By: Urinated State of America</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69446</link>
		<dc:creator>Urinated State of America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69446</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you ignore the nationalist parties, then NI is in play. It won’t be, however; in all likelihood, NI will be split between DUP and Sinn Fein, with UUP and SDLP being splattered.&quot;

But the NI parties have close to fuck-all influence on the larger British politic, with the one exception being when Gerry Fitt was stupid enough to vote yes on the no-confidence motion against Jim Callaghan in 1979, thus helping to usher in Thatcher (another six months, and Labour might have recovered in polls sufficiently to win an election). And Plaid are competitive in only 2-3 seats.

So, with the exception of the Scottish Nats, I can&#039;t see why nats would improve Daniel&#039;s ARSE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;If you ignore the nationalist parties, then NI is in play. It won&#8217;t be, however; in all likelihood, NI will be split between <span class="caps">DUP</span> and Sinn Fein, with <span class="caps">UUP</span> and <span class="caps">SDLP</span> being splattered.&#8221;</p>

	<p>But the NI parties have close to fuck-all influence on the larger British politic, with the one exception being when Gerry Fitt was stupid enough to vote yes on the no-confidence motion against Jim Callaghan in 1979, thus helping to usher in Thatcher (another six months, and Labour might have recovered in polls sufficiently to win an election). And Plaid are competitive in only 2-3 seats.</p>

	<p>So, with the exception of the Scottish Nats, I can&#8217;t see why nats would improve Daniel&#8217;s <span class="caps">ARSE</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69425</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69425</guid>
		<description>Sounds like the LibDems may become a victim of Simpson&#039;s Paradox. Though I haven&#039;t read closely enough to know if that&#039;s right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sounds like the LibDems may become a victim of Simpson&#8217;s Paradox. Though I haven&#8217;t read closely enough to know if that&#8217;s right.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Mouse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69421</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69421</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;the LibDems have a lot of seats [...] which have negative local multipliers on their vote share&lt;/em&gt;

I think this points up a fundamental problem with your model.  I can conceive of circumstances in which an increase in a party&#039;s national vote share actually decreases its support in a particular constituency in some causal way, but they&#039;re pretty bizarre.

Mind you, that sort of intuition has led me up the garden path before so I could be wrong here.  (E.g. I still feel strongly that using imaginary numbers to solve real-world differential equations is Bad and Wrong, but the bridges stay up despite my qualms.)

I think what&#039;s actually going on is the well-attested tactical vote/targetted seat campaigning effect, which gave the non-linear result for the LibDems last time round, and which might give entertainingly non-linear results this time.

In the spirit of the LazyWeb, I&#039;d like to see modelling that takes on the tactical vote issue explicitly.  I imagine some fiendishly clever feedback mechanism that magnifies the expected results (poll data?) in a constituency in to a propensity for anti-Tory tactical voters to go one way or &#039;tother.  

I think this time round we can expect anti-Labour tactical voters in a way we&#039;ve not really seen before, and hence about whom we have insufficient data so cannot make robust predictions.  That&#039;s never stopped people before, though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>the LibDems have a lot of seats [...] which have negative local multipliers on their vote share</em></p>

	<p>I think this points up a fundamental problem with your model.  I can conceive of circumstances in which an increase in a party&#8217;s national vote share actually decreases its support in a particular constituency in some causal way, but they&#8217;re pretty bizarre.</p>

	<p>Mind you, that sort of intuition has led me up the garden path before so I could be wrong here.  (E.g. I still feel strongly that using imaginary numbers to solve real-world differential equations is Bad and Wrong, but the bridges stay up despite my qualms.)</p>

	<p>I think what&#8217;s actually going on is the well-attested tactical vote/targetted seat campaigning effect, which gave the non-linear result for the LibDems last time round, and which might give entertainingly non-linear results this time.</p>

	<p>In the spirit of the LazyWeb, I&#8217;d like to see modelling that takes on the tactical vote issue explicitly.  I imagine some fiendishly clever feedback mechanism that magnifies the expected results (poll data?) in a constituency in to a propensity for anti-Tory tactical voters to go one way or &#8216;tother.</p>

	<p>I think this time round we can expect anti-Labour tactical voters in a way we&#8217;ve not really seen before, and hence about whom we have insufficient data so cannot make robust predictions.  That&#8217;s never stopped people before, though!</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69375</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69375</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why you do the conversion to a three horse voteshare.  Why not simply come up with a national to local actual voteshare multiplier?  Then the seats where one minus the total of the three parties voteshare is greater than the largest party voteshare can be ascribed to &quot;other&quot;.  It looks like you&#039;re doing more work to get a less accurate model. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t see why you do the conversion to a three horse voteshare.  Why not simply come up with a national to local actual voteshare multiplier?  Then the seats where one minus the total of the three parties voteshare is greater than the largest party voteshare can be ascribed to &#8220;other&#8221;.  It looks like you&#8217;re doing more work to get a less accurate model.</p>
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		<title>By: Penta</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69372</link>
		<dc:creator>Penta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69372</guid>
		<description>Daniel: I&#039;m going to have to agree w/ Haktor here.

If you ignore the nationalist parties, then NI is in play. It won&#039;t be, however; in all likelihood, NI will be split between DUP and Sinn Fein, with UUP and SDLP being splattered.

(I don&#039;t know enough about Scotland or Wales to comment, so won&#039;t.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Daniel: I&#8217;m going to have to agree w/ Haktor here.</p>

	<p>If you ignore the nationalist parties, then NI is in play. It won&#8217;t be, however; in all likelihood, NI will be split between <span class="caps">DUP</span> and Sinn Fein, with <span class="caps">UUP</span> and <span class="caps">SDLP</span> being splattered.</p>

	<p>(I don&#8217;t know enough about Scotland or Wales to comment, so won&#8217;t.)</p>
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		<title>By: Walt Pohl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69368</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Pohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69368</guid>
		<description>Did you adjust the model to better fit the acronym?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Did you adjust the model to better fit the acronym?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69357</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69357</guid>
		<description>Protest voting doesn&#039;t really fit into a uniform swing model (which this one is, in disguise).  Martin Baxter deals with it via an ad hoc adjustment which is reasonably easy to do in his model but more difficult in mine.  I&#039;m working on it at the moment.  In general, though, I&#039;m not really seeing many Lab/Lib marginals where any Lab-to-Lib switch isn&#039;t outweighed by the unwind of Tory switching (if it happens).

I quite agree on the Nashies, but it really was too much trouble.  I may chuck in another adhoc fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Protest voting doesn&#8217;t really fit into a uniform swing model (which this one is, in disguise).  Martin Baxter deals with it via an ad hoc adjustment which is reasonably easy to do in his model but more difficult in mine.  I&#8217;m working on it at the moment.  In general, though, I&#8217;m not really seeing many Lab/Lib marginals where any Lab-to-Lib switch isn&#8217;t outweighed by the unwind of Tory switching (if it happens).</p>

	<p>I quite agree on the Nashies, but it really was too much trouble.  I may chuck in another adhoc fix.</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/comment-page-1/#comment-69355</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/04/25/this-years-model/#comment-69355</guid>
		<description>Ignoring the nationalist parties seems like a very weird thing to do - it makes forecasts for Scotland, Wales, and especially Northern Ireland totally useless.

I don&#039;t know if I buy this anyway - there is no shift from Labor to Lib Dem at all?  So the protest vote angle won&#039;t work out at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ignoring the nationalist parties seems like a very weird thing to do &#8211; it makes forecasts for Scotland, Wales, and especially Northern Ireland totally useless.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know if I buy this anyway &#8211; there is no shift from Labor to Lib Dem at all?  So the protest vote angle won&#8217;t work out at all?</p>
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