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	<title>Comments on: Boolean confusion</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: lazyman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70408</link>
		<dc:creator>lazyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 13:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70408</guid>
		<description>keith, I think that you&#039;re letting your understanding of what such signs &lt;em&gt;usually&lt;/em&gt; mean cloud your interpretation of what this one &lt;em&gt;says&lt;/em&gt;; I don&#039;t think anybody disputes the intent of the sign, they&#039;re just struck by the strangeness of the construction used to express that intent.

Read on its own, it seems to present you with two options; of course that&#039;s not what it&#039;s meant to do, but that understanding is based on the (statistical) norm.

Of course, if you aren&#039;t struck by its oddness at all, then your idiolect is, by my lights, pretty unusual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>keith, I think that you&#8217;re letting your understanding of what such signs <em>usually</em> mean cloud your interpretation of what this one <em>says</em>; I don&#8217;t think anybody disputes the intent of the sign, they&#8217;re just struck by the strangeness of the construction used to express that intent.</p>

	<p>Read on its own, it seems to present you with two options; of course that&#8217;s not what it&#8217;s meant to do, but that understanding is based on the (statistical) norm.</p>

	<p>Of course, if you aren&#8217;t struck by its oddness at all, then your idiolect is, by my lights, pretty unusual.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 23:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70370</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A language is the spoken language.&lt;/i&gt;

In this case the relevant dialect is not &quot;spoken English&quot; (In which btw I think you would never ever hear the construction &quot;no food or no drinks&quot;), but rather &quot;posted notice English&quot;, the subset of the language that you see on signs. In this dialect there are two correct usages: &quot;No food or drinks&quot;, and &quot;No food no drinks&quot;. (This second may also be represented as &quot;NO food drinks&quot; where &quot;NO&quot; is twice the point size of the other words, and the other words are on two lines next to it.)

Another funny NJ sign: if you&#039;re driving down rte. 9W from Nyack, when you hit Bergen County the sign says &quot;Welcome to New Jersey/ Wipers on/ Lights on&quot; -- the first several times I saw it I thought it meant you had to keep your wipers and lights on at all times in the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>A language is the spoken language.</i></p>

	<p>In this case the relevant dialect is not &#8220;spoken English&#8221; (In which btw I think you would never ever hear the construction &#8220;no food or no drinks&#8221;), but rather &#8220;posted notice English&#8221;, the subset of the language that you see on signs. In this dialect there are two correct usages: &#8220;No food or drinks&#8221;, and &#8220;No food no drinks&#8221;. (This second may also be represented as &#8220;NO food drinks&#8221; where &#8220;NO&#8221; is twice the point size of the other words, and the other words are on two lines next to it.)</p>

	<p>Another funny NJ sign: if you&#8217;re driving down rte. 9W from Nyack, when you hit Bergen County the sign says &#8220;Welcome to New Jersey/ Wipers on/ Lights on&#8221;&#8212;the first several times I saw it I thought it meant you had to keep your wipers and lights on at all times in the state.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70354</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 22:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70354</guid>
		<description>A friend of mine was taking a psychological exam to determine his fitness for adopting a child. He is still puzzling over the acceptable answer to the following question: 

True or False:
I rarely hear voices in my head. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A friend of mine was taking a psychological exam to determine his fitness for adopting a child. He is still puzzling over the acceptable answer to the following question:</p>

	<p>True or False:<br />
I rarely hear voices in my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Weatherson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70308</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Weatherson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 18:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70308</guid>
		<description>On a similar line to Belle&#039;s example, I was completely confused the first time I rode the New Jersey Transit trains and heard the message &quot;At the next station, all doors will not open&quot;. I wondered why the train was stopping if all the doors would remain closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On a similar line to Belle&#8217;s example, I was completely confused the first time I rode the New Jersey Transit trains and heard the message &#8220;At the next station, all doors will not open&#8221;. I wondered why the train was stopping if all the doors would remain closed.</p>
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		<title>By: James Grimmelmann</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70255</link>
		<dc:creator>James Grimmelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 14:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70255</guid>
		<description>&quot;Or&quot; is ambiguous in this context for another reason -- it doesn&#039;t specify whose option the choice is. One possibility is that it&#039;s the reader&#039;s choice, which means that the reader could walk in with soda but no food. The other is that it&#039;s the writer&#039;s choice, which means that if the reader walks in which soda but no food, the writer could point to the sign and say &quot;sorry, no soda today, but you can bring in food.&quot; 

Either way, the reader can bring in one, but it makes a difference who gets to choose. (It&#039;s the difference between additive conjunction and additive disjunction in linear logic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Or&#8221; is ambiguous in this context for another reason&#8212;it doesn&#8217;t specify whose option the choice is. One possibility is that it&#8217;s the reader&#8217;s choice, which means that the reader could walk in with soda but no food. The other is that it&#8217;s the writer&#8217;s choice, which means that if the reader walks in which soda but no food, the writer could point to the sign and say &#8220;sorry, no soda today, but you can bring in food.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Either way, the reader can bring in one, but it makes a difference who gets to choose. (It&#8217;s the difference between additive conjunction and additive disjunction in linear logic.)</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70252</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 13:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70252</guid>
		<description>here in my singapore condo we have painted signs that say &quot;fire hardstanding area: not to be obstructed at all times.&quot; I have long wondered if the claim that I was only obstructing it at *some* times would be a valid defence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>here in my singapore condo we have painted signs that say &#8220;fire hardstanding area: not to be obstructed at all times.&#8221; I have long wondered if the claim that I was only obstructing it at <strong>some</strong> times would be a valid defence.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70251</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 13:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70251</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;...dialectal English...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

A language is the spoken language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;dialectal English&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>A language is the spoken language.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70243</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 12:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70243</guid>
		<description>No, no, no. We comprehend the message perfectly. It&#039;s just that it still doesn&#039;t look right. Much like the difference between &quot;its&quot; and &quot;it&#039;s&quot;: if I wrote the previous sentence as &quot;its just that...&quot; I&#039;m sure people will still know what I&#039;m saying, but that doesn&#039;t make it right.

I&#039;ve not come across many natural languages where multiple negatives reduce to a single negative. Dialectal English maybe: &quot;we don&#039;t sell no beers to no bears.&quot; And perhaps also Old English. But in Japanese, _shinakereba naranai_ (do-NEG-COND be-NEG) means &quot;should&quot;, and in Chinese -- my native tongue -- _bu4 ke3 bu4 cha2_ (not can not study) means &quot;must be studied&quot;. Oops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No, no, no. We comprehend the message perfectly. It&#8217;s just that it still doesn&#8217;t look right. Much like the difference between &#8220;its&#8221; and &#8220;it&#8217;s&#8221;: if I wrote the previous sentence as &#8220;its just that&#8230;&#8221; I&#8217;m sure people will still know what I&#8217;m saying, but that doesn&#8217;t make it right.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve not come across many natural languages where multiple negatives reduce to a single negative. Dialectal English maybe: &#8220;we don&#8217;t sell no beers to no bears.&#8221; And perhaps also Old English. But in Japanese, <em>shinakereba naranai</em> (do-NEG-COND be-NEG) means &#8220;should&#8221;, and in Chinese&#8212;my native tongue&#8212;<em>bu4 ke3 bu4 cha2</em> (not can not study) means &#8220;must be studied&#8221;. Oops.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70220</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 04:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70220</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The inarguable fact that &#039;Language is not Logic&#039; does nothing to make a sign that says “No food or no drinks” more idiomatic or sensible.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Why not? The sign is perfectly sensible.  Only someone who attempts to parse the sentence as a mathematical statement will have trouble comprehending it.  Everyone else who is a literate native English speaker will comprehend it as intended.

Smug put-downs of supposed misuse of language (like those on exhibit here) are the sophomoric equivalent of criticizing the innacuracy of &lt;i&gt;Star Trek&lt;/i&gt; physics.  In a deep sense, it&#039;s a category error.  I am beginning to believe that I could tolerate an analytic philosopher (of the linguistic philosopher subspeciality or inclination) who comes with substantial linguistics credentials.  But the armchair variety?  Not so much.  Well, really, not at all.

Here&#039;s something that will blow your minds: in natural language, double negatives are usually &lt;i&gt;intensifiers&lt;/i&gt; and do not reduce to a positive.  Wow!  Isn&#039;t that amazing?

Intellectual rigor is not essentially the metaphorical equivalent of a carefully wielded scalpel.  It&#039;s first and foremost the metaphorical equivalent of &lt;i&gt;wielding the most appropriate tool&lt;/i&gt;.

I&#039;d apologize for my ill-temper, but I expect better around these parts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;The inarguable fact that &#8216;Language is not Logic&#8217; does nothing to make a sign that says &#8220;No food or no drinks&#8221; more idiomatic or sensible.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Why not? The sign is perfectly sensible.  Only someone who attempts to parse the sentence as a mathematical statement will have trouble comprehending it.  Everyone else who is a literate native English speaker will comprehend it as intended.</p>

	<p>Smug put-downs of supposed misuse of language (like those on exhibit here) are the sophomoric equivalent of criticizing the innacuracy of <i>Star Trek</i> physics.  In a deep sense, it&#8217;s a category error.  I am beginning to believe that I could tolerate an analytic philosopher (of the linguistic philosopher subspeciality or inclination) who comes with substantial linguistics credentials.  But the armchair variety?  Not so much.  Well, really, not at all.</p>

	<p>Here&#8217;s something that will blow your minds: in natural language, double negatives are usually <i>intensifiers</i> and do not reduce to a positive.  Wow!  Isn&#8217;t that amazing?</p>

	<p>Intellectual rigor is not essentially the metaphorical equivalent of a carefully wielded scalpel.  It&#8217;s first and foremost the metaphorical equivalent of <i>wielding the most appropriate tool</i>.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;d apologize for my ill-temper, but I expect better around these parts.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70142</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 20:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70142</guid>
		<description>boolean or type error?  -- an ad for some highend dogfood for sale at the local Petsmart contained the description &quot;...varieties include lamb with rice and puppy....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>boolean or type error? &#8212;an ad for some highend dogfood for sale at the local Petsmart contained the description &#8220;&#8230;varieties include lamb with rice and puppy&#8230;.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70120</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 18:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70120</guid>
		<description>The inarguable fact that &quot;Language is not Logic&quot; does nothing to make a sign that says &quot;No food or no drinks&quot; more idiomatic or sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The inarguable fact that &#8220;Language is not Logic&#8221; does nothing to make a sign that says &#8220;No food or no drinks&#8221; more idiomatic or sensible.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hedley Lamarr</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70099</link>
		<dc:creator>Hedley Lamarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 15:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70099</guid>
		<description>Just switch the OR for NOR!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just switch the OR for <span class="caps">NOR</span>!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex S.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70096</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 14:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70096</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a boolean choice, it&#039;s a threat. If you bring food, you will not receive any drink. Obey, or go thirsty!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s not a boolean choice, it&#8217;s a threat. If you bring food, you will not receive any drink. Obey, or go thirsty!</p>
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		<title>By: cs</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70082</link>
		<dc:creator>cs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 12:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70082</guid>
		<description>bi - Maybe some rich alumn with a &quot;thing&quot; for young Sweedish women had endowed a scholarship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>bi &#8211; Maybe some rich alumn with a &#8220;thing&#8221; for young Sweedish women had endowed a scholarship.</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/comment-page-1/#comment-70063</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 06:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/01/boolean-confusion/#comment-70063</guid>
		<description>Why do they care about Swedish descent only if you&#039;re female? *scratch head*

And, this has nothing to do with boolean algebra, but I can&#039;t resist: &quot;TRESPASSERS WILL BE PERSECUTED&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why do they care about Swedish descent only if you&#8217;re female? <strong>scratch head</strong></p>

	<p>And, this has nothing to do with boolean algebra, but I can&#8217;t resist: &#8220;TRESPASSERS <span class="caps">WILL BE PERSECUTED</span>&#8221;.</p>
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