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	<title>Comments on: More losers than winners</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: KCinDC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-71011</link>
		<dc:creator>KCinDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 22:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-71011</guid>
		<description>Nick, Baer&#039;s &quot;sad little snipe&quot; apparently so impressed Kevin Drum that it&#039;s now in the sidebar at &lt;a href=&quot;http://washingtonmonthly.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Washington Monthly&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nick, Baer&#8217;s &#8220;sad little snipe&#8221; apparently so impressed Kevin Drum that it&#8217;s now in the sidebar at <a href="http://washingtonmonthly.com" rel="nofollow">Washington Monthly</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70949</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 09:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70949</guid>
		<description>Re voting - the most important factor about an MP is whose whip they take. There are very few Labour MPs whose record is rebellious enough that I&#039;d vote for them. In fact, I think there&#039;s just one. There aren&#039;t any Tories, although I there are certainly a few individual Tories (Bottomley springs to mind) who are far more attractive politically than the vast majority of the Labour benches.

What I meant when I said &#039;voting record&#039; is that as far as I&#039;m concerned, an MP is someone who helps run the country, not fix my planning application, and I vote accordingly.

Another point of info re Galloway and race. As far as I know, he only made the response about &#039;darker skins than Oona&#039;s&#039; as a reply to a question along the lines of &#039;Don&#039;t you feel bad running against a black woman?&#039; He didn&#039;t raise the issue of race - others (including Paxman) did, in a despicable fashion. Galloway&#039;s a louse in many important respects, but not that one.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re voting &#8211; the most important factor about an MP is whose whip they take. There are very few Labour MPs whose record is rebellious enough that I&#8217;d vote for them. In fact, I think there&#8217;s just one. There aren&#8217;t any Tories, although I there are certainly a few individual Tories (Bottomley springs to mind) who are far more attractive politically than the vast majority of the Labour benches.</p>

	<p>What I meant when I said &#8216;voting record&#8217; is that as far as I&#8217;m concerned, an MP is someone who helps run the country, not fix my planning application, and I vote accordingly.</p>

	<p>Another point of info re Galloway and race. As far as I know, he only made the response about &#8216;darker skins than Oona&#8217;s&#8217; as a reply to a question along the lines of &#8216;Don&#8217;t you feel bad running against a black woman?&#8217; He didn&#8217;t raise the issue of race &#8211; others (including Paxman) did, in a despicable fashion. Galloway&#8217;s a louse in many important respects, but not that one.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70899</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 21:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70899</guid>
		<description>oniongravy: one poll suggests only 33% of Labour &#039;defectors&#039; to the LDs cited Iraq as a major motivating factor. OK, it&#039;s a lot, and it&#039;s only a poll, but it might well be indicative. Issues like top-up fees and, well, all manner of things might be behind a shift in the vote, especially among, say, liberal-minded students who have no long-term commitment to the Labour Party but have no time for the hard left. I have no doubt that the LDs will continue to make minor election-on-election gains, the real problem is that every single bloody election they&#039;ll claim &quot;it&#039;s a new era of three-party politics&quot; (1997, 2001, anyone?) when they&#039;ll still be eluded by the kind of really significant breakthrough moment that will actually give that motto some substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oniongravy: one poll suggests only 33% of Labour &#8216;defectors&#8217; to the LDs cited Iraq as a major motivating factor. OK, it&#8217;s a lot, and it&#8217;s only a poll, but it might well be indicative. Issues like top-up fees and, well, all manner of things might be behind a shift in the vote, especially among, say, liberal-minded students who have no long-term commitment to the Labour Party but have no time for the hard left. I have no doubt that the LDs will continue to make minor election-on-election gains, the real problem is that every single bloody election they&#8217;ll claim &#8220;it&#8217;s a new era of three-party politics&#8221; (1997, 2001, anyone?) when they&#8217;ll still be eluded by the kind of really significant breakthrough moment that will actually give that motto some substance.</p>
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		<title>By: JayAnne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70873</link>
		<dc:creator>JayAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 14:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70873</guid>
		<description>Reuben, I was half-asleep when I posted (and very angry with dsquared), so, my apologies to you and to anyone else who had to try to work out what I might be saying... Thank you for working it out and saying it. 
I&#039;ve never actually voted for a Tory who was a good constituency MP, and for most of my life, have not voted (I&#039;m pretty Left wing and I lived in safe seats...), but I do see why other people do both. 
I&#039;m interested to see Chris chooses MPs on their voting record (or likely voting record). When I do vote, I vote by party and the party&#039;s politics (as it were) given that I&#039;d rather have a Labour Government than a wonderfully liberal Tory MP. Incidentally, it isn&#039;t only claimants who benefit (pun not intentional) from a good constituency MP; and &quot;welfare&quot; payments (I get Disability Living Allowance) are not my main concern in this instance, four-year waiting lists for an initial hospital appointment are.  



 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Reuben, I was half-asleep when I posted (and very angry with dsquared), so, my apologies to you and to anyone else who had to try to work out what I might be saying&#8230; Thank you for working it out and saying it.<br />
I&#8217;ve never actually voted for a Tory who was a good constituency MP, and for most of my life, have not voted (I&#8217;m pretty Left wing and I lived in safe seats&#8230;), but I do see why other people do both.<br />
I&#8217;m interested to see Chris chooses MPs on their voting record (or likely voting record). When I do vote, I vote by party and the party&#8217;s politics (as it were) given that I&#8217;d rather have a Labour Government than a wonderfully liberal Tory MP. Incidentally, it isn&#8217;t only claimants who benefit (pun not intentional) from a good constituency MP; and &#8220;welfare&#8221; payments (I get Disability Living Allowance) are not my main concern in this instance, four-year waiting lists for an initial hospital appointment are.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70867</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 13:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70867</guid>
		<description>&quot;So far, all I’ve been able to come across anti-leftist leftists like Oliver Kamm and Harry’s Place, on the one hand, and neo-Leninist websites, on the other hand.&quot; - Peter

Harry&#039;s Place is not anti-Leftist although Oliver Kamm is another matter. Paul Anderson&#039;s &#039;Gauche&#039; blog (libsoc.blogspot.com)is one of my favourite l/w blogs, another good one is Chris Brooke&#039;s &#039;The Virtual Stoa&#039; (http://users.ox.ac.uk/~magd1368/weblog/blogger.html) then there&#039;s &#039;Socialism in an Age of Waiting&#039; (http://marxist-org-uk.blogspot.com/), although that one might be described as far-left and you might think of them as anti-leftist leftists. Same goes for Norman Geras&#039;s &#039;Normblog&#039; (normblog.typepad.com), but both are well worth reading. &#039;Shot by Both Sides&#039; (http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/) is also entertaining, even if the blogger does support the (boo hiss) Liberal Democrats.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;So far, all I&#8217;ve been able to come across anti-leftist leftists like Oliver Kamm and Harry&#8217;s Place, on the one hand, and neo-Leninist websites, on the other hand.&#8221; &#8211; Peter</p>

	<p>Harry&#8217;s Place is not anti-Leftist although Oliver Kamm is another matter. Paul Anderson&#8217;s &#8216;Gauche&#8217; blog (libsoc.blogspot.com)is one of my favourite l/w blogs, another good one is Chris Brooke&#8217;s &#8216;The Virtual Stoa&#8217; (<a href="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~magd1368/weblog/blogger.html" rel="nofollow">http://users.ox.ac.uk/~magd1368/weblog/blogger.html</a>) then there&#8217;s &#8216;Socialism in an Age of Waiting&#8217; (<a href="http://marxist-org-uk.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://marxist-org-uk.blogspot.com/</a>), although that one might be described as far-left and you might think of them as anti-leftist leftists. Same goes for Norman Geras&#8217;s &#8216;Normblog&#8217; (normblog.typepad.com), but both are well worth reading. &#8216;Shot by Both Sides&#8217; (<a href="http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stalinism.com/shot-by-both-sides/</a>) is also entertaining, even if the blogger does support the (boo hiss) Liberal Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Jo Blogs</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70861</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Jo Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 11:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70861</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Election thoughts&lt;/strong&gt;

It&#039;s been a hectic couple of days; I voted on the way to a job which came up late; another job came up for today in the middle of that job which itself finished well after 11pm last night.  So there was no question of staying up all night to see the r...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Election thoughts</strong></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s been a hectic couple of days; I voted on the way to a job which came up late; another job came up for today in the middle of that job which itself finished well after 11pm last night.  So there was no question of staying up all night to see the r&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70830</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 23:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70830</guid>
		<description>Which would I prefer? An MP who answers letters and gets things done (legally of course, not in the Fine Gael manner) for their constituents, but supports ID cards, mortgaging the future of the public sector, lies about going to war, and paying for education?

Or is my preferred model the late Jim Marshall, who spent most of his time propping up a bar in the (also late) Royal Mail, but at least voted against much of this state-level nastiness? 

Not sure I&#039;d vote for either, to be honest (never did for Jim), but I make my decisions on the basis of how they will vote, not their role as an ombudsman. If you _need_ your MP&#039;s help that badly, then the right thing to do is not to vote for the best ombudsperson regardless of their politics. Instead, set up a claimants&#039; union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Which would I prefer? An MP who answers letters and gets things done (legally of course, not in the Fine Gael manner) for their constituents, but supports ID cards, mortgaging the future of the public sector, lies about going to war, and paying for education?</p>

	<p>Or is my preferred model the late Jim Marshall, who spent most of his time propping up a bar in the (also late) Royal Mail, but at least voted against much of this state-level nastiness?</p>

	<p>Not sure I&#8217;d vote for either, to be honest (never did for Jim), but I make my decisions on the basis of how they will vote, not their role as an ombudsman. If you <em>need</em> your MP&#8217;s help that badly, then the right thing to do is not to vote for the best ombudsperson regardless of their politics. Instead, set up a claimants&#8217; union.</p>
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		<title>By: sharon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70827</link>
		<dc:creator>sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 23:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70827</guid>
		<description>&quot;According to a friend who worked on the Labour campaign, Oona King went without a secretary, instead using that money to pay housing officers who cranked through 20,000 housing complaints and issues a year for her constituency.&quot;

I suggest you think through that claim more carefully. I don&#039;t know what a parliamentary secretary is paid, but an MP only gets £57k a year (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.barrygardiner.labour.co.uk/ViewPage.cfm?Page=9834&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt; paid his entire staff £75k in 2003-4), and I don&#039;t think you&#039;re going to get all that many competent housing officers for the price of a secretary (we&#039;re not talking filing clerks here). In order to get through 20,000 complaints a year, between them they&#039;d have to deal with at least 80 complaints per working day. 

Let&#039;s just say that I think there&#039;s a teeny bit of exaggeration going on here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;According to a friend who worked on the Labour campaign, Oona King went without a secretary, instead using that money to pay housing officers who cranked through 20,000 housing complaints and issues a year for her constituency.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I suggest you think through that claim more carefully. I don&#8217;t know what a parliamentary secretary is paid, but an MP only gets &#163;57k a year (<a href="http://www.barrygardiner.labour.co.uk/ViewPage.cfm?Page=9834" rel="nofollow">this one</a> paid his entire staff &#163;75k in 2003-4), and I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re going to get all that many competent housing officers for the price of a secretary (we&#8217;re not talking filing clerks here). In order to get through 20,000 complaints a year, between them they&#8217;d have to deal with at least 80 complaints per working day.</p>

	<p>Let&#8217;s just say that I think there&#8217;s a teeny bit of exaggeration going on here.</p>
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		<title>By: David Flood</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70823</link>
		<dc:creator>David Flood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 22:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70823</guid>
		<description>&quot;And David Trimble is out.&quot;

Good riddance? The attempt to make him an Ulster Unionist &#039;de Klerk&#039; was wildly optimistic, and onlt succeeded in continually feeding the jackass with enough rope to hang pro-Agreement politicians with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;And David Trimble is out.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Good riddance? The attempt to make him an Ulster Unionist &#8216;de Klerk&#8217; was wildly optimistic, and onlt succeeded in continually feeding the jackass with enough rope to hang pro-Agreement politicians with.</p>
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		<title>By: reuben</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70806</link>
		<dc:creator>reuben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 20:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70806</guid>
		<description>Jayanne, 

If I understand you correctly, you fall into the area cited by (who&#039;d have thunk it?) John Lennon, when he said, &#039;There&#039;s not enough of a gap between the two main parties, but a lot of people live in that gap.&#039; That is, the difference between the parties might not seem like much to some of us, but they&#039;re pretty damn big to the people affected by the policy differences therein.

Whether you&#039;re Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, policies really do matter, and those who dismiss the differences between parties (and the value of constituency MPs) are:
a) being facetious, and/or
b) flaunting their privilege - ie rejoicing in the fact that their lives are going to pretty damn fine no matter who&#039;s in charge.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jayanne,</p>

	<p>If I understand you correctly, you fall into the area cited by (who&#8217;d have thunk it?) John Lennon, when he said, &#8216;There&#8217;s not enough of a gap between the two main parties, but a lot of people live in that gap.&#8217; That is, the difference between the parties might not seem like much to some of us, but they&#8217;re pretty damn big to the people affected by the policy differences therein.</p>

	<p>Whether you&#8217;re Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, policies really do matter, and those who dismiss the differences between parties (and the value of constituency MPs) are:<br />
a) being facetious, and/or<br />
b) flaunting their privilege &#8211; ie rejoicing in the fact that their lives are going to pretty damn fine no matter who&#8217;s in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: reuben</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70804</link>
		<dc:creator>reuben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 20:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70804</guid>
		<description>Blimey, Matthew, 

As far as I can tell, no one has contradicted GG&#039;s kowtowing to SH, nor did your link actually address (at least not on the first page, maybe further in?) the issues Johann Hari raised in his column. 

But as I said, that&#039;s not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I think that King actually gave a shit about her constintuency on a day in day out basis, even though she was a complete buffoon to support the war. I think that GG, on the other hand, saw this constituency as a great place to score some bigtime politcal points, but isn&#039;t actually going to do the work on a day to day basis. 

And you can bet your ass I&#039;d hold a Labour candidate to the same &#039;work for your area day in day out&#039; standards. There&#039;s a lot of high level Labour folks I wouldn&#039;t have voted for no matter what. I want someone who&#039;s good for Bethnal Green, not someone who I think is going to use it as a showpiece. And I genuinely don&#039;t think GG is that man. Does that really count as &#039;jingo stuff&#039; in your book? 

And like I say, I hope Georgey boy proves me wrong. I&#039;d hate to get all disgruntled and feel like I should move back to Lambeth. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Blimey, Matthew,</p>

	<p>As far as I can tell, no one has contradicted GG&#8217;s kowtowing to SH, nor did your link actually address (at least not on the first page, maybe further in?) the issues Johann Hari raised in his column.</p>

	<p>But as I said, that&#8217;s not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I think that King actually gave a shit about her constintuency on a day in day out basis, even though she was a complete buffoon to support the war. I think that GG, on the other hand, saw this constituency as a great place to score some bigtime politcal points, but isn&#8217;t actually going to do the work on a day to day basis.</p>

	<p>And you can bet your ass I&#8217;d hold a Labour candidate to the same &#8216;work for your area day in day out&#8217; standards. There&#8217;s a lot of high level Labour folks I wouldn&#8217;t have voted for no matter what. I want someone who&#8217;s good for Bethnal Green, not someone who I think is going to use it as a showpiece. And I genuinely don&#8217;t think GG is that man. Does that really count as &#8216;jingo stuff&#8217; in your book?</p>

	<p>And like I say, I hope Georgey boy proves me wrong. I&#8217;d hate to get all disgruntled and feel like I should move back to Lambeth.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70802</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 20:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70802</guid>
		<description>peter, try &#039;Blood and Treasure&#039;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>peter, try &#8216;Blood and Treasure&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70794</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 19:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70794</guid>
		<description>Are there some good mainstream British left-liberal blogs any of you could recommend? So far, all I&#039;ve been able to come across anti-leftist leftists like Oliver Kamm and Harry&#039;s Place, on the one hand, and neo-Leninist websites, on the other hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are there some good mainstream British left-liberal blogs any of you could recommend? So far, all I&#8217;ve been able to come across anti-leftist leftists like Oliver Kamm and Harry&#8217;s Place, on the one hand, and neo-Leninist websites, on the other hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-2/#comment-70792</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 18:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70792</guid>
		<description>yup, there he goes.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2005/05/voting_intentio.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sucks to be Oliver Kamm&lt;/a&gt;, apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>yup, there he goes.  <a href="http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2005/05/voting_intentio.html" rel="nofollow">Sucks to be Oliver Kamm</a>, apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Houghton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/comment-page-1/#comment-70788</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 18:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/06/more-losers-than-winners-2/#comment-70788</guid>
		<description>And David Trimble is out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And David Trimble is out.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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