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	<title>Comments on: Friday Fun Thread: Teenage Kicks</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Mr Ripley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75690</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75690</guid>
		<description>Short explication of Gary Farber&#039;s observation:  Forry is/was Forrest J. Ackerman, who was listening to his kids&#039; hi-fi in the Fifties and thought of a nifty new abbreviation for &quot;science fiction&quot; that rhymed with &quot;hi-fi.&quot;  Generations of SF writers reacted to the term more or less as Toni Morrison would respond if someone had come up to her at some point in the past twenty years and called her a &quot;favorite Negro writer.&quot;  For a long time, SF writers insisted that such a patronizing term as &quot;sci-fi&quot; was just fine for &lt;i&gt;Lost in Space&lt;/i&gt; but could hardly be applied to serious writing.  Thanks in part to the Sci-Fi channel and its offshoots, keeping the patronizing term out of the mainstream discourse has become impossible.  Members and scholars of the (written) science fiction culture, however, are still going to use the term SF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Short explication of Gary Farber&#8217;s observation:  Forry is/was Forrest J. Ackerman, who was listening to his kids&#8217; hi-fi in the Fifties and thought of a nifty new abbreviation for &#8220;science fiction&#8221; that rhymed with &#8220;hi-fi.&#8221;  Generations of SF writers reacted to the term more or less as Toni Morrison would respond if someone had come up to her at some point in the past twenty years and called her a &#8220;favorite Negro writer.&#8221;  For a long time, SF writers insisted that such a patronizing term as &#8220;sci-fi&#8221; was just fine for <i>Lost in Space</i> but could hardly be applied to serious writing.  Thanks in part to the Sci-Fi channel and its offshoots, keeping the patronizing term out of the mainstream discourse has become impossible.  Members and scholars of the (written) science fiction culture, however, are still going to use the term SF.</p>
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		<title>By: redfox</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75592</link>
		<dc:creator>redfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75592</guid>
		<description>Anon, the wonderful E Nesbit was an Edith, not an Elizabeth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Anon, the wonderful E Nesbit was an Edith, not an Elizabeth.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75565</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75565</guid>
		<description>Thanks, RM -- Googling around, it looks like Ken of &quot;The Illuminated Donkey&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://bleak.blogspot.com/2002_03_03_bleak_archive.html#10384252&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Thought of it&lt;/a&gt; before you or I, back in March of 2002.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, <span class="caps">RM </span>&#8212;Googling around, it looks like Ken of &#8220;The Illuminated Donkey&#8221; <a href="http://bleak.blogspot.com/2002_03_03_bleak_archive.html#10384252" rel="nofollow">Thought of it</a> before you or I, back in March of 2002.</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75528</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75528</guid>
		<description>Jeremy, thanks for giving me the sense of gratification that having my humor appreciated brings. It doesn&#039;t happen often.

You have a fun blog. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jeremy, thanks for giving me the sense of gratification that having my humor appreciated brings. It doesn&#8217;t happen often.</p>

	<p>You have a fun blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75517</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75517</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. I have read the bloggers linking, each to each.&lt;/em&gt;

Oh Gawd... I can&#039;t believe it was not until this morning, when I rolled out of bed muttering, &quot;have read the bloggers linking, each to each&quot;, that I realized the punchline -- &quot;(I do not think that they will link to me.)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. I have read the bloggers linking, each to each.</em></p>

	<p>Oh Gawd&#8230; I can&#8217;t believe it was not until this morning, when I rolled out of bed muttering, &#8220;have read the bloggers linking, each to each&#8221;, that I realized the punchline&#8212;&#8220;(I do not think that they will link to me.)&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75488</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75488</guid>
		<description>A Girl of the Limberlost, by Gene Stratton Porter, still reads pretty well for all that it was written in 1908. Except for not having Dragons it shows that the art of writing wish-fulfillment books for young women hasn&#039;t changed very much.
Also, any of Heinlein&#039;s juvies, which can be read by adults for the sheer pleasure of his craftsmanship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A Girl of the Limberlost, by Gene Stratton Porter, still reads pretty well for all that it was written in 1908. Except for not having Dragons it shows that the art of writing wish-fulfillment books for young women hasn&#8217;t changed very much.<br />
Also, any of Heinlein&#8217;s juvies, which can be read by adults for the sheer pleasure of his craftsmanship.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Drezner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75457</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Drezner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75457</guid>
		<description>Also sent here by Eszter -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002128.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my answers are here&lt;/a&gt;.  

&lt;i&gt;The Watchmen&lt;/i&gt; would have been on the list -- had I been smart enough as a young adult to have discovered it.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also sent here by Eszter&#8212;<a href="http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002128.html" rel="nofollow">my answers are here</a>.</p>

	<p><i>The Watchmen</i> would have been on the list&#8212;had I been smart enough as a young adult to have discovered it.</p>
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		<title>By: profbacon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75453</link>
		<dc:creator>profbacon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75453</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a boy in the Girl&#039;s Bathroom.  Louis Sachar, Zelade

Maniac Magee  Jerry Spinelli.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s a boy in the Girl&#8217;s Bathroom.  Louis Sachar, Zelade</p>

	<p>Maniac Magee  Jerry Spinelli.</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75449</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75449</guid>
		<description>gary,

&lt;i&gt;Geez, hearing that would have pissed Roger off. But that was then and this is now and Forry has won.&lt;/i&gt;

C&#039;mon, tell more. What&#039;s with Zelazny and Creatures? And Forry? And all that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>gary,</p>

	<p><i>Geez, hearing that would have pissed Roger off. But that was then and this is now and Forry has won.</i></p>

	<p>C&#8217;mon, tell more. What&#8217;s with Zelazny and Creatures? And Forry? And all that?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75448</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75448</guid>
		<description>Er, I mean to say, translation published in 1922. So the original, presumably some year before that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Er, I mean to say, translation published in 1922. So the original, presumably some year before that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75447</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75447</guid>
		<description>And well, &lt;a href=&quot;http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/lagerlof/nils/nils.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nils Goose-Boy&lt;/a&gt; (full text online btw) was published in 1922 so I&#039;m thinking yeah, Barth must&#039;ve had it in mind. Cool!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And well, <a href="http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/lagerlof/nils/nils.html" rel="nofollow">Nils Goose-Boy</a> (full text online btw) was published in 1922 so I&#8217;m thinking yeah, Barth must&#8217;ve had it in mind. Cool!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75446</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75446</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;Nils Goose-Boy&lt;/i&gt; makes Sweden a magical place. I only want to know, do you say it “nills” or “niles”?!?&quot;

If it&#039;s &quot;Niles&quot; I want to know whether that title served as inspiration for &quot;Giles Goat-Boy&quot; or vice-versa...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;<i>Nils Goose-Boy</i> makes Sweden a magical place. I only want to know, do you say it &#8220;nills&#8221; or &#8220;niles&#8221;?!?&#8221;</p>

	<p>If it&#8217;s &#8220;Niles&#8221; I want to know whether that title served as inspiration for &#8220;Giles Goat-Boy&#8221; or vice-versa&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Myca</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75438</link>
		<dc:creator>Myca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75438</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Zelazny, &lt;i&gt;Lord of Light&lt;/i&gt; continues to be absolutely stellar as I age. My first reading was at a shitty Boy Scout camp where all the horrid little proto-jocks mocked me for even having brought a book. My last reading was 20 years later: last week.

Yep. Still good.

---Myca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Speaking of Zelazny, <i>Lord of Light</i> continues to be absolutely stellar as I age. My first reading was at a shitty Boy Scout camp where all the horrid little proto-jocks mocked me for even having brought a book. My last reading was 20 years later: last week.</p>

	<p>Yep. Still good.<br />
&#8212;-Myca</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75437</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75437</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I read several chidren’s books set in Scandinavia (e.g. Gunnel Linde’s A Pony in the Luggage) . . .&lt;/i&gt;

susanc, you put me in mind of foreign children&#039;s books (I&#039;m writing from the U.S.). 

Children&#039;s books one revisits to read as a parent are a bit different from childhood reads one picks up for personal pleasure; so in my previous examples I forgot all about these foreign books which were important in my childhood, and which I re-read for bedtime stories:
Selma Lagerlo:f (that&#039;s an umlaut), &lt;i&gt;The Adventures of Nils Goose-Boy&lt;/i&gt; (Swedish boy is shrunk, rides goose around all of Sweden, returns)Norman Lindsay, &lt;i&gt;The Magic Pudding&lt;/i&gt; (koala turns swagman, takes up with charming rascals in possession of magic never-finished sentient pie, fights off cretinous antagonists who want to steal the pie)Dorothy Wall, &lt;i&gt;The Adventures of Blinky Bill&lt;/i&gt; (cute, naughty koala boy has adventures; strong conservationist moral)

Like your example, &lt;i&gt;Nils Goose-Boy&lt;/i&gt; makes Sweden a magical place. I only want to know, do you say it &quot;nills&quot; or &quot;niles&quot;?!?

I&#039;ve reversed my opinions of the two Australian books. As a kid (approx. 8, I guess) and as a very young adult, I thought &lt;i&gt;Blinky Bill&lt;/i&gt; was way too treacly and sentimental, while &lt;i&gt;The Magic Pudding&lt;/i&gt; was super cool for its irony, its biting wit and social satire, its nonsense verse, and its amoral universe (the villians want to steal the pie, which is only what the &quot;heroes&quot; have done in the first place; and the pie itself is a caustic little character). It has a similar appeal to Don Marquis, Herriman&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Krazy Kat&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Rocky &amp; Bullwinkle&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;The Simpsons&lt;/i&gt;, or &lt;a href=&quot;http://fafblog.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fafblog&lt;/a&gt; ---- definitely a superior literary work to BB, and also part of the Pantheon of Coolness. 

However, I&#039;ve found that as a parent, I don&#039;t really want my kids blasted with icy gusts of irony and amoral satiric wit; treacle is okay. Lack of irony is okay. And they like Blinky Bill much better, for now. 

And Blinky is not as simple as I thought; there is wit, and the conservationist message is pretty good (be nice to animals; don&#039;t destroy habitat; don&#039;t hunt endangered species). The never-ending magic pudding, on the other hand, is a metaphor for endless exploitation of the land. I still like MP better as lit, but not at bedtime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I read several chidren&#8217;s books set in Scandinavia (e.g. Gunnel Linde&#8217;s A Pony in the Luggage) . . .</i></p>

	<p>susanc, you put me in mind of foreign children&#8217;s books (I&#8217;m writing from the U.S.).</p>

	<p>Children&#8217;s books one revisits to read as a parent are a bit different from childhood reads one picks up for personal pleasure; so in my previous examples I forgot all about these foreign books which were important in my childhood, and which I re-read for bedtime stories:<br />
Selma Lagerlo:f (that&#8217;s an umlaut), <i>The Adventures of Nils Goose-Boy</i> (Swedish boy is shrunk, rides goose around all of Sweden, returns)Norman Lindsay, <i>The Magic Pudding</i> (koala turns swagman, takes up with charming rascals in possession of magic never-finished sentient pie, fights off cretinous antagonists who want to steal the pie)Dorothy Wall, <i>The Adventures of Blinky Bill</i> (cute, naughty koala boy has adventures; strong conservationist moral)</p>

	<p>Like your example, <i>Nils Goose-Boy</i> makes Sweden a magical place. I only want to know, do you say it &#8220;nills&#8221; or &#8220;niles&#8221;?!?</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve reversed my opinions of the two Australian books. As a kid (approx. 8, I guess) and as a very young adult, I thought <i>Blinky Bill</i> was way too treacly and sentimental, while <i>The Magic Pudding</i> was super cool for its irony, its biting wit and social satire, its nonsense verse, and its amoral universe (the villians want to steal the pie, which is only what the &#8220;heroes&#8221; have done in the first place; and the pie itself is a caustic little character). It has a similar appeal to Don Marquis, Herriman&#8217;s <i>Krazy Kat</i>, <i>Rocky &#038; Bullwinkle</i>, <i>The Simpsons</i>, or <a href="http://fafblog.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Fafblog</a>&#8212;&#8212;definitely a superior literary work to BB, and also part of the Pantheon of Coolness.</p>

	<p>However, I&#8217;ve found that as a parent, I don&#8217;t really want my kids blasted with icy gusts of irony and amoral satiric wit; treacle is okay. Lack of irony is okay. And they like Blinky Bill much better, for now.</p>

	<p>And Blinky is not as simple as I thought; there is wit, and the conservationist message is pretty good (be nice to animals; don&#8217;t destroy habitat; don&#8217;t hunt endangered species). The never-ending magic pudding, on the other hand, is a metaphor for endless exploitation of the land. I still like MP better as lit, but not at bedtime.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Farber</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/comment-page-1/#comment-75433</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/17/friday-fun-thread-teenage-kicks/#comment-75433</guid>
		<description>&quot;One of the best sci-fi book evah, imo.&quot;

Geez, hearing that would have pissed Roger off.  But that was then and this is now and Forry has won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;One of the best sci-fi book evah, imo.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Geez, hearing that would have pissed Roger off.  But that was then and this is now and Forry has won.</p>
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