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	<title>Comments on: In which the Crooked Timber of Humanity fails to appreciate conservatives</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Maynard Handley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76223</link>
		<dc:creator>Maynard Handley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76223</guid>
		<description>People with iPods may be interested to know that a google search for Jeffrey Sachs mp3 turns up quite a few of his lectures. After listening to one (given at Amherst, I believe) all I can do is agree with the general sentiments of this thread -- his heart is in the right place but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

Two examples of astonishing naivete immediately spring to mind. 
The first is his claim that corruption is common, but Asian countries have prospered in spite of corruption, a statement that seems unaware of the concept of degrees of badness. There is an awful difference between a corrupt government that skims 10% off the building of a dam/highway/powerplant, and has the plant still built, and a government that skims 100%, leaving the country with blueprints for a powerplant and not much else.
The second is his favorite example of mosquito nets. I imagine this example is chosen because the implication is that, unlike giving a government cash, if you give them mosquito nets how can they then do any damage? Of course even the most cursory glance at African history shows a wide variety of ingenious ways in which the nets can be exploited -- they can be sold to the people they are meant to be given to, they can be sold to slightly less poor countries (Asia and South America spring to mind), or, that most favorite of African tactics, they can be given to those of the chosen sphere (correct tribe/language/voting record) while being withheld as punishment from those who are not favored. 

At the end of the day we are face the elephant that no-one wants to mention -- sovereignty. There is a constituency in the west that, for good reason, sees any attempt by Westerners to force Africans to do things a certain way, as intensely problematic. There is another constituency that, for just as good reasons, doesn&#039;t believe that a single damn good thing will happen in Africa until those providing aid can, with overwhelming force behind them, step in as necessary to damn well crush and kill those who use aid as piggy bank or political patronage. Between these two we have a stalemate with no obvious resolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>People with iPods may be interested to know that a google search for Jeffrey Sachs mp3 turns up quite a few of his lectures. After listening to one (given at Amherst, I believe) all I can do is agree with the general sentiments of this thread&#8212;his heart is in the right place but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.</p>

	<p>Two examples of astonishing naivete immediately spring to mind.<br />
The first is his claim that corruption is common, but Asian countries have prospered in spite of corruption, a statement that seems unaware of the concept of degrees of badness. There is an awful difference between a corrupt government that skims 10% off the building of a dam/highway/powerplant, and has the plant still built, and a government that skims 100%, leaving the country with blueprints for a powerplant and not much else.<br />
The second is his favorite example of mosquito nets. I imagine this example is chosen because the implication is that, unlike giving a government cash, if you give them mosquito nets how can they then do any damage? Of course even the most cursory glance at African history shows a wide variety of ingenious ways in which the nets can be exploited&#8212;they can be sold to the people they are meant to be given to, they can be sold to slightly less poor countries (Asia and South America spring to mind), or, that most favorite of African tactics, they can be given to those of the chosen sphere (correct tribe/language/voting record) while being withheld as punishment from those who are not favored.</p>

	<p>At the end of the day we are face the elephant that no-one wants to mention&#8212;sovereignty. There is a constituency in the west that, for good reason, sees any attempt by Westerners to force Africans to do things a certain way, as intensely problematic. There is another constituency that, for just as good reasons, doesn&#8217;t believe that a single damn good thing will happen in Africa until those providing aid can, with overwhelming force behind them, step in as necessary to damn well crush and kill those who use aid as piggy bank or political patronage. Between these two we have a stalemate with no obvious resolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76208</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76208</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You can give people mosquito nets to prevent malaria, but they might use them instead to catch fish.&lt;/i&gt;

If they are fishing for fish which are the size of mosquitoes, no wonder the poor buggers are starving.  Does nobody read these things before printing them?

Oh yeh and

&lt;i&gt; don’t think you’d find anyone on this site (conservative commentators included) who’d support the European Common Agricultural Policy or the US farm subsidies, which are the major barriers to our markets&lt;/i&gt;

Hand up; I&#039;ll support the CAP, at least in the face of the current attacks, because it isn&#039;t a major barrier to the EU market.  Since the last set of reforms, the EU does not subsidise the creation of material surpluses (not that surpluses were a bad thing anyway; cheap food is not bad for starving people).  It also allows poor African nations access to the EU market on member state terms.  The only commodity for which this is remotely true is Malawian and Zambian sugar, and it would be a bad idea for Malawi and Zambia to increase their reliance on sugar exports, since they would be competing with Australia and Brazil.

The current proposals to scrap the CAP (as opposed to the previous campaigns which resulted in the present reforms) look like nothing more than an attempt by the UK to get out of paying for the thing, backed by energetic lobbying by Australian and Brazilian commodities interests, and greenwashed as proposals to &quot;help Africa&quot; by a load of NGOs that should know better.  I have not seen any anti-CAP campaigner come up with a plausible suggestion as to how we should replace the preferential access regime, which leaves me with the sneaking suspicion that removing the CAP would leave Africa somewhat worse off.

I don&#039;t know anything about US farm subsidies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>You can give people mosquito nets to prevent malaria, but they might use them instead to catch fish.</i></p>

	<p>If they are fishing for fish which are the size of mosquitoes, no wonder the poor buggers are starving.  Does nobody read these things before printing them?</p>

	<p>Oh yeh and</p>

	<p><i> don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d find anyone on this site (conservative commentators included) who&#8217;d support the European Common Agricultural Policy or the US farm subsidies, which are the major barriers to our markets</i></p>

	<p>Hand up; I&#8217;ll support the <span class="caps">CAP</span>, at least in the face of the current attacks, because it isn&#8217;t a major barrier to the EU market.  Since the last set of reforms, the EU does not subsidise the creation of material surpluses (not that surpluses were a bad thing anyway; cheap food is not bad for starving people).  It also allows poor African nations access to the EU market on member state terms.  The only commodity for which this is remotely true is Malawian and Zambian sugar, and it would be a bad idea for Malawi and Zambia to increase their reliance on sugar exports, since they would be competing with Australia and Brazil.</p>

	<p>The current proposals to scrap the <span class="caps">CAP </span>(as opposed to the previous campaigns which resulted in the present reforms) look like nothing more than an attempt by the UK to get out of paying for the thing, backed by energetic lobbying by Australian and Brazilian commodities interests, and greenwashed as proposals to &#8220;help Africa&#8221; by a load of NGOs that should know better.  I have not seen any anti-CAP campaigner come up with a plausible suggestion as to how we should replace the preferential access regime, which leaves me with the sneaking suspicion that removing the <span class="caps">CAP</span> would leave Africa somewhat worse off.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know anything about US farm subsidies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76203</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76203</guid>
		<description>This: &quot;The Bush folks, like most conservatives, tend to emphasize nonmaterial causes of poverty: corrupt governments, perverse incentives, institutions that crush freedom.&quot;

doesn&#039;t even really make sense on its own terms.  The &quot;material/ nonmaterial&quot; divide on the causes of poverty is one between economics and those aspects of politics and law that touch on economics, on one side, and culture (and those aspects of politics and law etc) on the other.  &quot;Corrupt governments&quot; are decidedly a material cause of poverty.  They directly steal from their people; they impose such high transaction costs in demands for bribes that productive economic activity is stifled; they refuse stability and transparency in property and contract enforcement, which require an uncorrupt judiciary.  

This isn&#039;t culture, or religion, or alcoholism, or illegitimacy, or anything like that.  It&#039;s straightforwardly material.

Brooks appears to be conflating &quot;material causes of poverty&quot; with &quot;the absence of transfer payments.&quot;  This allows him to assimilate the foreign aid case to the domestic welfare case, and to imply that the Bush foreign aid policy is something like the faith-based initiatives.  But the implication is silly.  F-BI stresses nonmaterial causes of domestic poverty.  The rhetoric of the Bush plan is about material causes of African poverty-- *local* material causes, certainly, but material nonetheless.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This: &#8220;The Bush folks, like most conservatives, tend to emphasize nonmaterial causes of poverty: corrupt governments, perverse incentives, institutions that crush freedom.&#8221;</p>

	<p>doesn&#8217;t even really make sense on its own terms.  The &#8220;material/ nonmaterial&#8221; divide on the causes of poverty is one between economics and those aspects of politics and law that touch on economics, on one side, and culture (and those aspects of politics and law etc) on the other.  &#8220;Corrupt governments&#8221; are decidedly a material cause of poverty.  They directly steal from their people; they impose such high transaction costs in demands for bribes that productive economic activity is stifled; they refuse stability and transparency in property and contract enforcement, which require an uncorrupt judiciary.</p>

	<p>This isn&#8217;t culture, or religion, or alcoholism, or illegitimacy, or anything like that.  It&#8217;s straightforwardly material.</p>

	<p>Brooks appears to be conflating &#8220;material causes of poverty&#8221; with &#8220;the absence of transfer payments.&#8221;  This allows him to assimilate the foreign aid case to the domestic welfare case, and to imply that the Bush foreign aid policy is something like the faith-based initiatives.  But the implication is silly.  F-BI stresses nonmaterial causes of domestic poverty.  The rhetoric of the Bush plan is about material causes of African poverty&#8212;<strong>local</strong> material causes, certainly, but material nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76202</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76202</guid>
		<description>brooksfoe, great comment.  I saw Sachs speak (haven&#039;t read the book) -- he&#039;s an economist, not a historian, political scientist, or sociologist, and it shows.  He really does believe that &quot;clinical economics&quot; can find the roots of problems and offer &quot;practical&quot; solutions.  He acknowledges that aid is currently poorly spent (much on international consultants, direct food aid, and shipping direct food aid), but he doesn&#039;t confront the fact that even if aid spending is increased, this apportionment will (most certainly) not change.  He&#039;s for &quot;trade AND aid&quot; in order to overcome the poverty trap, but he&#039;s overemphasized aid to a degree that is shocking.  I think he&#039;s made a political calculation -- 1) his advocacy can have a greater effect on aid as compared to trade policies and 2) this work came out of the UN sponsored Millennium Project, which has an interest in increasing aid.  His arguments seem to be made to appeal to American conservatives in particular, as he emphasizes that the poor should not be blamed for their poverty.  Perhaps he thinks that becoming saviors through aid will appeal to them.

On the &quot;Why Africa&quot; question, I think Sachs would say that there are some barriers that Africa faces of the &quot;Guns, Germs, and Steel&quot; variety.  For example, endemic malaria, the distribution of rainfall juxtaposed with the location of port cities, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>brooksfoe, great comment.  I saw Sachs speak (haven&#8217;t read the book)&#8212;he&#8217;s an economist, not a historian, political scientist, or sociologist, and it shows.  He really does believe that &#8220;clinical economics&#8221; can find the roots of problems and offer &#8220;practical&#8221; solutions.  He acknowledges that aid is currently poorly spent (much on international consultants, direct food aid, and shipping direct food aid), but he doesn&#8217;t confront the fact that even if aid spending is increased, this apportionment will (most certainly) not change.  He&#8217;s for &#8220;trade <span class="caps">AND</span> aid&#8221; in order to overcome the poverty trap, but he&#8217;s overemphasized aid to a degree that is shocking.  I think he&#8217;s made a political calculation&#8212;1) his advocacy can have a greater effect on aid as compared to trade policies and 2) this work came out of the UN sponsored Millennium Project, which has an interest in increasing aid.  His arguments seem to be made to appeal to American conservatives in particular, as he emphasizes that the poor should not be blamed for their poverty.  Perhaps he thinks that becoming saviors through aid will appeal to them.</p>

	<p>On the &#8220;Why Africa&#8221; question, I think Sachs would say that there are some barriers that Africa faces of the &#8220;Guns, Germs, and Steel&#8221; variety.  For example, endemic malaria, the distribution of rainfall juxtaposed with the location of port cities, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76201</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76201</guid>
		<description>brooksfoe, great comment.  I saw Sachs speak (haven&#039;t read the book) -- he&#039;s an economist, not a historian, political scientist, or sociologist, and it shows.  He really does believe that &quot;clinical economics&quot; can find the roots of problems and offer &quot;practical&quot; solutions.  He acknowledges that aid is currently poorly spent (much on international consultants, direct food aid, and shipping direct food aid), but he doesn&#039;t confront the fact that even if aid spending is increased, this apportionment will (most certainly) not change.  He&#039;s for &quot;trade AND aid&quot; in order to overcome the poverty trap, but he&#039;s overemphasized aid to a degree that is shocking.  I think he&#039;s made a political calculation -- 1) his advocacy can have a greater effect on aid as compared to trade policies and 2) this work came out of the UN sponsored Millennium Project, which has an interest in increasing aid.  His arguments seem to be made to appeal to American conservatives in particular, as he emphasizes that the poor should not be blamed for their poverty.  Perhaps he thinks that becoming saviors through aid will appeal to them.

On the &quot;Why Africa&quot; question, I think Sachs would say that there are some barriers that Africa faces of the &quot;Guns, Germs, and Steel&quot; variety.  For example, endemic malaria, the distribution of rainfall juxtaposed with the location of port cities, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>brooksfoe, great comment.  I saw Sachs speak (haven&#8217;t read the book)&#8212;he&#8217;s an economist, not a historian, political scientist, or sociologist, and it shows.  He really does believe that &#8220;clinical economics&#8221; can find the roots of problems and offer &#8220;practical&#8221; solutions.  He acknowledges that aid is currently poorly spent (much on international consultants, direct food aid, and shipping direct food aid), but he doesn&#8217;t confront the fact that even if aid spending is increased, this apportionment will (most certainly) not change.  He&#8217;s for &#8220;trade <span class="caps">AND</span> aid&#8221; in order to overcome the poverty trap, but he&#8217;s overemphasized aid to a degree that is shocking.  I think he&#8217;s made a political calculation&#8212;1) his advocacy can have a greater effect on aid as compared to trade policies and 2) this work came out of the UN sponsored Millennium Project, which has an interest in increasing aid.  His arguments seem to be made to appeal to American conservatives in particular, as he emphasizes that the poor should not be blamed for their poverty.  Perhaps he thinks that becoming saviors through aid will appeal to them.</p>

	<p>On the &#8220;Why Africa&#8221; question, I think Sachs would say that there are some barriers that Africa faces of the &#8220;Guns, Germs, and Steel&#8221; variety.  For example, endemic malaria, the distribution of rainfall juxtaposed with the location of port cities, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76197</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76197</guid>
		<description>I think it is clear that current EU and US agricultural arrangements are very damaging but instantly switching to free trade will have all sorts of unintended consequences. For example it is not clear that the countries that are suffering at the moment are also those that would benefit from liberalisation. The EU and the rest might just end up switching to cheap supplies from Brazil reducing prices and opportunities for undercapitalised industries in Africa and other places. There are also a lot of opportunities for major industrial enterprises to co-opt the no doubt imperfect legislation to implement this kind of reform. Britain&#039;s wimp-out on the CAP (refusing a cap on CAP aid payments)is a case in point. 

I read this in the IHT and thought it made a lot of sense but couldn&#039;t find it on-line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think it is clear that current EU and US agricultural arrangements are very damaging but instantly switching to free trade will have all sorts of unintended consequences. For example it is not clear that the countries that are suffering at the moment are also those that would benefit from liberalisation. The EU and the rest might just end up switching to cheap supplies from Brazil reducing prices and opportunities for undercapitalised industries in Africa and other places. There are also a lot of opportunities for major industrial enterprises to co-opt the no doubt imperfect legislation to implement this kind of reform. Britain&#8217;s wimp-out on the <span class="caps">CAP </span>(refusing a cap on <span class="caps">CAP</span> aid payments)is a case in point.</p>

	<p>I read this in the <span class="caps">IHT</span> and thought it made a lot of sense but couldn&#8217;t find it on-line.</p>
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		<title>By: P ONeill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76194</link>
		<dc:creator>P ONeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76194</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;So why Africa?&lt;/em&gt;

Because the trends are much worse.  Absolute number of poor is higher in S. Asia, but these countries are growing at a sufficient rate to pull a lot of people out of absolute poverty on their own.  They&#039;ve done a lot of poverty reduction already.  Africa hasn&#039;t even managed to do things that South Asia did, like Green Revolution and creation of tech enclaves.  Of course the work is not done when we lift people from $0.99/day to $1.05 per day.  But Sachs would argue for directing global effort where the prospects for absolute misery are highest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>So why Africa?</em></p>

	<p>Because the trends are much worse.  Absolute number of poor is higher in S. Asia, but these countries are growing at a sufficient rate to pull a lot of people out of absolute poverty on their own.  They&#8217;ve done a lot of poverty reduction already.  Africa hasn&#8217;t even managed to do things that South Asia did, like Green Revolution and creation of tech enclaves.  Of course the work is not done when we lift people from $0.99/day to $1.05 per day.  But Sachs would argue for directing global effort where the prospects for absolute misery are highest.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76193</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76193</guid>
		<description>Why Africa?

South Asia has &lt;a href=&quot;http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/JenniferLeong.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more than half again&lt;/a&gt; as many people living in extreme poverty as all of Africa.  Yet a program to eliminate poverty there would surely be cheaper, easier to implement, and more likely to succeed than Sachs&#039; proposal for Africa.  Repressive, corrupt government, civil and border wars, and illiteracy are not entirely absent, but they&#039;d likely be much less of an obstacle to development.  There&#039;s even a &quot;colonial guilt&quot; angle, if that matters.

So why Africa?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why Africa?</p>

	<p>South Asia has <a href="http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/JenniferLeong.shtml" rel="nofollow">more than half again</a> as many people living in extreme poverty as all of Africa.  Yet a program to eliminate poverty there would surely be cheaper, easier to implement, and more likely to succeed than Sachs&#8217; proposal for Africa.  Repressive, corrupt government, civil and border wars, and illiteracy are not entirely absent, but they&#8217;d likely be much less of an obstacle to development.  There&#8217;s even a &#8220;colonial guilt&#8221; angle, if that matters.</p>

	<p>So why Africa?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76189</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76189</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s nothing wrong with the US and EU protecting their farms; in fact it is, generally speaking, a prudent and wise policy. What they shouldn&#039;t do, however, is bullying and bribing developing countries&#039; governments into opening their markets to importing these subsidised products, or any products for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with the US and EU protecting their farms; in fact it is, generally speaking, a prudent and wise policy. What they shouldn&#8217;t do, however, is bullying and bribing developing countries&#8217; governments into opening their markets to importing these subsidised products, or any products for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76178</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76178</guid>
		<description>When you realize the impact of US (and European) farm subsidies on third world nations, articles like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg1763.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; are hard to stomach.&lt;blockquote&gt;Just $4 billion per year would guarantee every full-time farmer in America a minimum income of 185 percent of the federal poverty level ($34,873 for a family of four in 2004).5 However, farm subsidies are more corporate welfare than poverty relief, so Washington instead spends $12 billion to $30 billion annually subsidizing large farms and agribusinesses that are much wealthier than the taxpayers footing the bill.&lt;/blockquote&gt;So it would appear that the US could extremely fairly and quickly add another 30 billion in indirect foreign aid (or as I like to call it, Free Trade) and the only people hurt would be large agro who are buying yachts and G5&#039;s with taxpayer money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When you realize the impact of <span class="caps">US </span>(and European) farm subsidies on third world nations, articles like <a href="http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg1763.cfm" rel="nofollow">this</a> are hard to stomach.<blockquote>Just $4 billion per year would guarantee every full-time farmer in America a minimum income of 185 percent of the federal poverty level ($34,873 for a family of four in 2004).5 However, farm subsidies are more corporate welfare than poverty relief, so Washington instead spends $12 billion to $30 billion annually subsidizing large farms and agribusinesses that are much wealthier than the taxpayers footing the bill.</blockquote>So it would appear that the US could extremely fairly and quickly add another 30 billion in indirect foreign aid (or as I like to call it, Free Trade) and the only people hurt would be large agro who are buying yachts and G5&#8217;s with taxpayer money.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76177</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76177</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll have to come back to this later. So much coffee came out of my nose after reading the first 2 sentences of the Brooks excerpt that I need to go clean myself up.

If it&#039;s Tuesday, we can and must remake the world in our image, for such is the nature of true conservatism.

If it&#039;s Saturday, we are humble and prudent and wary of grand, messianic schemes, for such is the nature of true conservatism.

And if it&#039;s Thursday, something I overheard while waiting on line at Home Depot the other day will be spun into a profound insight into American political sociology.

Brooks, Friedman, Tierney...it boggles the mind. How many people are going to pay 50 cents a year for this parade of idiocy, let alone $50?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll have to come back to this later. So much coffee came out of my nose after reading the first 2 sentences of the Brooks excerpt that I need to go clean myself up.</p>

	<p>If it&#8217;s Tuesday, we can and must remake the world in our image, for such is the nature of true conservatism.</p>

	<p>If it&#8217;s Saturday, we are humble and prudent and wary of grand, messianic schemes, for such is the nature of true conservatism.</p>

	<p>And if it&#8217;s Thursday, something I overheard while waiting on line at Home Depot the other day will be spun into a profound insight into American political sociology.</p>

	<p>Brooks, Friedman, Tierney&#8230;it boggles the mind. How many people are going to pay 50 cents a year for this parade of idiocy, let alone $50?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76176</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76176</guid>
		<description>Ah, I see. Sorry for the misreading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah, I see. Sorry for the misreading.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76174</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76174</guid>
		<description>I was making a general comment about many commentators in the media and blogosphere- definitely including Brooks who as &quot;conservative&quot; should theoretically be an enthusiastic free-trader- not dissing anybody around here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was making a general comment about many commentators in the media and blogosphere- definitely including Brooks who as &#8220;conservative&#8221; should theoretically be an enthusiastic free-trader- not dissing anybody around here.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76172</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76172</guid>
		<description>Why do you conclude this Steve? I don&#039;t think you&#039;d find anyone on this site (conservative commentators included) who&#039;d support the European Common Agricultural Policy or the US farm subsidies, which are the major barriers to our markets. In any discussions I&#039;ve had, it&#039;s more or less taken as a given that those are bad things, and removing them would improve the situation. But since (a) removing them would not be a magic cure and (b) they are sadly not about to leave any time soon, it doesn&#039;t seem there is no point discussing anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why do you conclude this Steve? I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d find anyone on this site (conservative commentators included) who&#8217;d support the European Common Agricultural Policy or the US farm subsidies, which are the major barriers to our markets. In any discussions I&#8217;ve had, it&#8217;s more or less taken as a given that those are bad things, and removing them would improve the situation. But since (a) removing them would not be a magic cure and (b) they are sadly not about to leave any time soon, it doesn&#8217;t seem there is no point discussing anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-76171</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/26/in-which-the-crooked-timber-of-humanity-fails-to-appreciate-conservatives/#comment-76171</guid>
		<description>Seems like few people at any point on the political spectrum- in Europe as well as the US- are eager to talk about one of the biggest things we can do to help a lot of developing countries: opening up our markets, to agricultural imports especially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Seems like few people at any point on the political spectrum- in Europe as well as the US- are eager to talk about one of the biggest things we can do to help a lot of developing countries: opening up our markets, to agricultural imports especially.</p>
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