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	<title>Comments on: Making markets again</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76665</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76665</guid>
		<description>Universal healthcare - in 1993, before the &#039;great universal healthcare&#039; debate started, 70% wanted universal healthcare. A couple of months later, when the dust settled, it was under 50%. Thank you Bob, Viagra-man. Anything (OK, almost anything) can be demagogued to appear the opposite of what it is - if you have enough money and audacity. And they have both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Universal healthcare &#8211; in 1993, before the &#8216;great universal healthcare&#8217; debate started, 70% wanted universal healthcare. A couple of months later, when the dust settled, it was under 50%. Thank you Bob, Viagra-man. Anything (OK, almost anything) can be demagogued to appear the opposite of what it is &#8211; if you have enough money and audacity. And they have both.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76660</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76660</guid>
		<description>Sven has a very good point about the &quot;flip-flopper&quot; label sticking rather too well to Kerry; and Nils is correct that Rove&#039;s genius consists of choosing the issues which resonate the most with the voting public in a way which tilts them Republican. 

I don&#039;t entirely believe Firebug&#039;s analysis, because polls which show that the majority of Americans want national health insurance generally don&#039;t ask about the costs or other options, and how those issues affect people&#039;s opinions. Those are issues which the Republicans would bring up if a Democrat proposed National Health. 

The &quot;making markets&quot; paradigm would require a moderately liberal Democrat to vigorously put forward a generally coherent vision of liberalism, set forth in terms which the middle-of-the-road voter can identify with. It would help if such a Democratic candidate could successfully portray the Republicans as weak on some significant issue, and create a perception that the Republicans didn&#039;t have coherent principles, but rather a laundry-list of issues and interests all grabbing for a share of the pie.

Middle-of-the-road voters can be swayed to vote quite a ways from the political center, if the argument is presented in ways which match some of the usually conflicting values which those voters hold. The Republicans have been far better at that than the Democrats, except on a few issues (like same-sex marriage) where they&#039;re losing ground on the issue.

The Democrats might be able to do it, but there isn&#039;t a candidate in 2008 who can do it, unless Edwards does a lot better this time around. It may also not be the Democrats&#039; time yet. The liberal ideological consensus was the dominant ideological paradigm from 1932 to 1980; in that time, except for Goldwater, conservatives were oppositional rather than advancing an alternative ideological vision. The Democrats today are oppositional, with a few exceptions. The question is whether Howard Dean is the Barry Goldwater or the Robert Welch of the Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sven has a very good point about the &#8220;flip-flopper&#8221; label sticking rather too well to Kerry; and Nils is correct that Rove&#8217;s genius consists of choosing the issues which resonate the most with the voting public in a way which tilts them Republican.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t entirely believe Firebug&#8217;s analysis, because polls which show that the majority of Americans want national health insurance generally don&#8217;t ask about the costs or other options, and how those issues affect people&#8217;s opinions. Those are issues which the Republicans would bring up if a Democrat proposed National Health.</p>

	<p>The &#8220;making markets&#8221; paradigm would require a moderately liberal Democrat to vigorously put forward a generally coherent vision of liberalism, set forth in terms which the middle-of-the-road voter can identify with. It would help if such a Democratic candidate could successfully portray the Republicans as weak on some significant issue, and create a perception that the Republicans didn&#8217;t have coherent principles, but rather a laundry-list of issues and interests all grabbing for a share of the pie.</p>

	<p>Middle-of-the-road voters can be swayed to vote quite a ways from the political center, if the argument is presented in ways which match some of the usually conflicting values which those voters hold. The Republicans have been far better at that than the Democrats, except on a few issues (like same-sex marriage) where they&#8217;re losing ground on the issue.</p>

	<p>The Democrats might be able to do it, but there isn&#8217;t a candidate in 2008 who can do it, unless Edwards does a lot better this time around. It may also not be the Democrats&#8217; time yet. The liberal ideological consensus was the dominant ideological paradigm from 1932 to 1980; in that time, except for Goldwater, conservatives were oppositional rather than advancing an alternative ideological vision. The Democrats today are oppositional, with a few exceptions. The question is whether Howard Dean is the Barry Goldwater or the Robert Welch of the Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kroeger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76638</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kroeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76638</guid>
		<description>&quot;...Unfortunately, the only success of any significance that the DLC can point to over the past dozen years was Bill Clinton’s election and re-election. In the end, Bill Clinton’s Presidency was actually a &lt;i&gt;personal&lt;/i&gt; achievement, not an achievement of the Democratic Party.&quot;

&quot;Unfortunately, Bill Clinton and his cohort at the DLC are profoundly mistaken in their belief that Clinton’s success was due to his “centrist” positions on the issues. Democrats who tried to run on Clinton’s centrist agenda were regularly swept away by Republican candidates throughout the Clinton Era. The only reason why his centrist positions helped to get him elected is because he was able to deftly take away the ammunition his opponents were depending on to define him in a negative way. By eliminating distinctions between himself and his Republican opponent, he was able to reduce the choice for voters to “Who do you want for your President? Him or me?” With his charm, he was the obvious choice for many. As many have pointed out, the only problem with this approach is that you can only agree with your opponent for tactical reasons so many times before you actually &lt;i&gt;become your opponent&lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

&quot;Bill Clinton is a great, great guy. How can anyone not like him? His charm reminds me of the 1980’s, when I would listen to one of Reagan’s State of the Union speeches and say, “You know, he even makes me want to believe what he’s saying, and I know that just everything he just said is 100% wrong.” The comparison to Reagan is apt. I predict that one day historians will agree that Bill Clinton was truly a far greater Political Personality than Ronald Reagan ever was. He was/is every bit the equal of Ronald Reagan when it comes to personal charm, and that is saying a lot. But Bill Clinton was/is also extremely intelligent—in a book-learning sort of way—while Reagan regularly turned to The Reader’s Digest for incisive analysis of the issues. There is no doubt in my mind that Bill Clinton would have easily trounced Ronald Reagan if they had been matched up against each other at the same time. Charming &amp; Intelligent vs. Charming &amp; Amiable Dunce.&quot;

Beware of the DLC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;&#8230;Unfortunately, the only success of any significance that the <span class="caps">DLC</span> can point to over the past dozen years was Bill Clinton&#8217;s election and re-election. In the end, Bill Clinton&#8217;s Presidency was actually a <i>personal</i> achievement, not an achievement of the Democratic Party.&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8220;Unfortunately, Bill Clinton and his cohort at the <span class="caps">DLC</span> are profoundly mistaken in their belief that Clinton&#8217;s success was due to his &#8220;centrist&#8221; positions on the issues. Democrats who tried to run on Clinton&#8217;s centrist agenda were regularly swept away by Republican candidates throughout the Clinton Era. The only reason why his centrist positions helped to get him elected is because he was able to deftly take away the ammunition his opponents were depending on to define him in a negative way. By eliminating distinctions between himself and his Republican opponent, he was able to reduce the choice for voters to &#8220;Who do you want for your President? Him or me?&#8221; With his charm, he was the obvious choice for many. As many have pointed out, the only problem with this approach is that you can only agree with your opponent for tactical reasons so many times before you actually <i>become your opponent</i>.&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8220;Bill Clinton is a great, great guy. How can anyone not like him? His charm reminds me of the 1980&#8217;s, when I would listen to one of Reagan&#8217;s State of the Union speeches and say, &#8220;You know, he even makes me want to believe what he&#8217;s saying, and I know that just everything he just said is 100% wrong.&#8221; The comparison to Reagan is apt. I predict that one day historians will agree that Bill Clinton was truly a far greater Political Personality than Ronald Reagan ever was. He was/is every bit the equal of Ronald Reagan when it comes to personal charm, and that is saying a lot. But Bill Clinton was/is also extremely intelligent&#8212;in a book-learning sort of way&#8212;while Reagan regularly turned to The Reader&#8217;s Digest for incisive analysis of the issues. There is no doubt in my mind that Bill Clinton would have easily trounced Ronald Reagan if they had been matched up against each other at the same time. Charming &#038; Intelligent vs. Charming &#038; Amiable Dunce.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Beware of the <span class="caps">DLC</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76586</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 11:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76586</guid>
		<description>McGovern was more to the center than Clinton2, Gore and Kerry? 

Is it possible that you have drifted to the right (e.g. by accepted Republican definition of what &#039;to defend the country&#039; means) and are beyond the reach now? And that, I&#039;m afraid, is the whole point here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>McGovern was more to the center than Clinton2, Gore and Kerry?</p>

	<p>Is it possible that you have drifted to the right (e.g. by accepted Republican definition of what &#8216;to defend the country&#8217; means) and are beyond the reach now? And that, I&#8217;m afraid, is the whole point here.</p>
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		<title>By: dave s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76583</link>
		<dc:creator>dave s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76583</guid>
		<description>All I know is my own experience - that I thought the Dems were the party with good ideas and voted Dem from McGovern through Clinton I, then voted Dole, Bush, Bush.  It seems to me that the Dems need to try and find a way to get me back, and the way to do it is through the center (and through making me confident they intend to defend the country) not through going left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>All I know is my own experience &#8211; that I thought the Dems were the party with good ideas and voted Dem from McGovern through Clinton I, then voted Dole, Bush, Bush.  It seems to me that the Dems need to try and find a way to get me back, and the way to do it is through the center (and through making me confident they intend to defend the country) not through going left.</p>
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		<title>By: Firebug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76579</link>
		<dc:creator>Firebug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 07:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76579</guid>
		<description>Kilgore&#039;s premises are wrong. The fact is that, on various economic issues, the public is further left than the Democrats. A large majority of Americans want universal health care. Polls also show that more than 50% of Americans want to be union members. Economic populism is a winning agenda. It&#039;s time to purge the DLC and tell them to go to the Republican party where they belong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kilgore&#8217;s premises are wrong. The fact is that, on various economic issues, the public is further left than the Democrats. A large majority of Americans want universal health care. Polls also show that more than 50% of Americans want to be union members. Economic populism is a winning agenda. It&#8217;s time to purge the <span class="caps">DLC</span> and tell them to go to the Republican party where they belong.</p>
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		<title>By: Nils gilman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76574</link>
		<dc:creator>Nils gilman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 04:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76574</guid>
		<description>Given the tacit agreement on all the major issues that confront our society -- the fact that there is &lt;em&gt;de facto&lt;/em&gt; major-party consensus on all the big issues that might roil political debate in this country -- the real political battle becomes which relatively trivial issues we will choose to debate. And in this respect, the Republicans have made bitches out of the Democrats for the last two electoral cycles. 

Quite obviously, the big issues facing the country during the last electoral cycle were (1) the probity of the choice to invade, and the path forward in, Iraq; (2) the massive budget deficit; (3) what to do about entitlements with an aging population. But were these the central issues the two candidates debated?

Rhetorical question.

Karl Rove&#039;s genius is that he knows exactly which political issues are the &quot;right ones&quot; to choose for establishing effective Republican differentiation. Instead, the electoral debate, as played out in the so-called liberal media, focused almost entirely on secondary issues chosen by Rove: gay marriage, Swifties, and &quot;personal character.&quot;

There are two problems here. The first is that the Democrats, under DLC guidance, have utterly failed to differentiate themselves from the Republicans on the major issues of the day. This was why I was disgusted by Kerry, but felt that Dean would have been a good candidate. (Dean was &quot;a choice, not an echo,&quot; as the Goldwater phrase would have it.) The second problem was that insofar as they were going to concede parity on the vital issues of the day, the Democrats also ceded the choice of secondary issues to the Republicans.

The result was all but inevitable, and in retrospect it&#039;s frankly amazing that Kerry got as close as he did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Given the tacit agreement on all the major issues that confront our society&#8212;the fact that there is <em>de facto</em> major-party consensus on all the big issues that might roil political debate in this country&#8212;the real political battle becomes which relatively trivial issues we will choose to debate. And in this respect, the Republicans have made bitches out of the Democrats for the last two electoral cycles.</p>

	<p>Quite obviously, the big issues facing the country during the last electoral cycle were (1) the probity of the choice to invade, and the path forward in, Iraq; (2) the massive budget deficit; (3) what to do about entitlements with an aging population. But were these the central issues the two candidates debated?</p>

	<p>Rhetorical question.</p>

	<p>Karl Rove&#8217;s genius is that he knows exactly which political issues are the &#8220;right ones&#8221; to choose for establishing effective Republican differentiation. Instead, the electoral debate, as played out in the so-called liberal media, focused almost entirely on secondary issues chosen by Rove: gay marriage, Swifties, and &#8220;personal character.&#8221;</p>

	<p>There are two problems here. The first is that the Democrats, under <span class="caps">DLC</span> guidance, have utterly failed to differentiate themselves from the Republicans on the major issues of the day. This was why I was disgusted by Kerry, but felt that Dean would have been a good candidate. (Dean was &#8220;a choice, not an echo,&#8221; as the Goldwater phrase would have it.) The second problem was that insofar as they were going to concede parity on the vital issues of the day, the Democrats also ceded the choice of secondary issues to the Republicans.</p>

	<p>The result was all but inevitable, and in retrospect it&#8217;s frankly amazing that Kerry got as close as he did.</p>
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		<title>By: Sven</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76573</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 04:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76573</guid>
		<description>Kilgore et al are seriously misreading the &quot;netroots&#039;&quot; major beef with ND/DLCism. &quot;Compromis[ing] with impurity&quot; may be a issue among some subscribers to &lt;i&gt;The Nation&lt;/i&gt;. But Daily Kos or Atrios readers&#039; chief concern isn&#039;t about ideology as much as &lt;i&gt;cajones&lt;/i&gt;. 

The most effective charge against Kerry during the campaign wasn&#039;t that he&#039;s a liberal - that was red meat for the Rush Limbaugh crowd. It the was oft-repeated &quot;flip-flopper&quot; label, which was most effective among Kilgore&#039;s precious middle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kilgore et al are seriously misreading the &#8220;netroots&#8217;&#8221; major beef with ND/DLCism. &#8220;Compromis[ing] with impurity&#8221; may be a issue among some subscribers to <i>The Nation</i>. But Daily Kos or Atrios readers&#8217; chief concern isn&#8217;t about ideology as much as <i>cajones</i>.</p>

	<p>The most effective charge against Kerry during the campaign wasn&#8217;t that he&#8217;s a liberal &#8211; that was red meat for the Rush Limbaugh crowd. It the was oft-repeated &#8220;flip-flopper&#8221; label, which was most effective among Kilgore&#8217;s precious middle.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Alpers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76566</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Alpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76566</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t yet read either Perlstein&#039;s pamphlet or Kilgore&#039;s repost.  But I think it&#039;s worth noting that one of the many ways in which the ND/DLC crowd is dishonest is their constant talk about the need to compromise. &quot;New Democrats&quot; tend to talk (especially to progressives) as if they are really quite left, but, sobered by experience, understand that they can only win by moving to the center. In fact, they are convinced centrists and/or conservatives who understand that they cannot sell their ideas on the merits to their party&#039;s grassroots, so they package their ideas in terms of the iron laws of electoral necessity. Unfortunately, the grassroots tends to buy this nonsense. Whatever the electoral possibilities of the actual left, the New Democratic vision of the center keeps losing election after election.  There may be reasons to support this vision (though I don&#039;t see them). But easy electoral success is not one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Haven&#8217;t yet read either Perlstein&#8217;s pamphlet or Kilgore&#8217;s repost.  But I think it&#8217;s worth noting that one of the many ways in which the ND/DLC crowd is dishonest is their constant talk about the need to compromise. &#8220;New Democrats&#8221; tend to talk (especially to progressives) as if they are really quite left, but, sobered by experience, understand that they can only win by moving to the center. In fact, they are convinced centrists and/or conservatives who understand that they cannot sell their ideas on the merits to their party&#8217;s grassroots, so they package their ideas in terms of the iron laws of electoral necessity. Unfortunately, the grassroots tends to buy this nonsense. Whatever the electoral possibilities of the actual left, the New Democratic vision of the center keeps losing election after election.  There may be reasons to support this vision (though I don&#8217;t see them). But easy electoral success is not one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: y81</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76558</link>
		<dc:creator>y81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76558</guid>
		<description>For the pedant, the biggest problem with Kilgore&#039;s article is that he seems to have confused Aaron with Joshua.  It&#039;s so hard to take the uneducated seriously, though I know that they are often good people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For the pedant, the biggest problem with Kilgore&#8217;s article is that he seems to have confused Aaron with Joshua.  It&#8217;s so hard to take the uneducated seriously, though I know that they are often good people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76550</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76550</guid>
		<description>&quot;Indeed, the left’s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to believe that ultimate success does not require, and may actually prohibit, ideological flexibility, submission to public opinion, or the responsibility to achieve actual results.&quot;

So how does Kilgore explain the left&#039;s new fascination with Karl Rove? Maybe the left&#039;s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to  understand how we got into this horrific political situation (much like the one the Republicans faced pre-Goldwater), and how we can get out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Indeed, the left&#8217;s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to believe that ultimate success does not require, and may actually prohibit, ideological flexibility, submission to public opinion, or the responsibility to achieve actual results.&#8221;</p>

	<p>So how does Kilgore explain the left&#8217;s new fascination with Karl Rove? Maybe the left&#8217;s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to  understand how we got into this horrific political situation (much like the one the Republicans faced pre-Goldwater), and how we can get out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76549</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76549</guid>
		<description>&quot;Indeed, the left’s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to believe that ultimate success does not require, and may actually prohibit, ideological flexibility, submission to public opinion, or the responsibility to achieve actual results.&quot;

So how does Kilgore explain the left&#039;s new fascination with Karl Rove? Maybe the left&#039;s fascination with Goldwater and Reagan can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to understand how we got into this horrific political situation, and how we can get out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Indeed, the left&#8217;s new fascination with the conservative movement, and with politicians like Goldwater and Reagan, can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to believe that ultimate success does not require, and may actually prohibit, ideological flexibility, submission to public opinion, or the responsibility to achieve actual results.&#8221;</p>

	<p>So how does Kilgore explain the left&#8217;s new fascination with Karl Rove? Maybe the left&#8217;s fascination with Goldwater and Reagan can best be understood as reflecting a powerful desire to understand how we got into this horrific political situation, and how we can get out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76542</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76542</guid>
		<description>To changing the rules you&#039;d have to change the language and, perhaps, the culture first. In the US &#039;socialist&#039; is a swear word, invading countries is &#039;liberation&#039;, idle super-rich are &#039;the most productive members of the society&#039; who &#039;create jobs&#039;, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To changing the rules you&#8217;d have to change the language and, perhaps, the culture first. In the <span class="caps">US </span>&#8216;socialist&#8217; is a swear word, invading countries is &#8216;liberation&#8217;, idle super-rich are &#8216;the most productive members of the society&#8217; who &#8216;create jobs&#8217;, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeCallMeTim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/06/30/political-pure-plays/comment-page-1/#comment-76533</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeCallMeTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3494#comment-76533</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s fair to say that the DLC/TNR crowd represents the &quot;center&quot; and that the anti-Iraq crowd represents the &quot;left&quot;.  Prior to Iraq, a lot of the &quot;left&quot; (Atrios, Krugman, etc.) would have been classed as centrists;  MY previously made the point that the only large-scale difference between much of the &quot;left&quot; and much of the &quot;center&quot; is Iraq policy. I don&#039;t know that, for example, opposition to Iraq maps in any particular way to initial trust/distrust of market-made solutions to various problems.  It might be more accurate to talk about the &quot;center&quot; (us) and &quot;Democratic Right&quot; (DLC/TNR).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s fair to say that the <span class="caps">DLC</span>/TNR crowd represents the &#8220;center&#8221; and that the anti-Iraq crowd represents the &#8220;left&#8221;.  Prior to Iraq, a lot of the &#8220;left&#8221; (Atrios, Krugman, etc.) would have been classed as centrists;  MY previously made the point that the only large-scale difference between much of the &#8220;left&#8221; and much of the &#8220;center&#8221; is Iraq policy. I don&#8217;t know that, for example, opposition to Iraq maps in any particular way to initial trust/distrust of market-made solutions to various problems.  It might be more accurate to talk about the &#8220;center&#8221; (us) and &#8220;Democratic Right&#8221; (DLC/TNR).</p>
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