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	<title>Comments on: London Pride</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-2/#comment-78968</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78968</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A statue on Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses of Parliament in London commemorates Boudiccea. Parliament in its wisdom surly wouldn’t wish to celebrate a terrorist and terrorism.&lt;/i&gt;

Since my satire-meter is busted today (can&#039;t really help it living in America) I&#039;ll assume this was meant somewhat seriously. And note that it seems like a rather odd position to take given that the parliament also features a &quot;statue of Oliver Cromwell&quot;:http://www.london-gb.com/pictures/olly.html. I guess some will want to say that Cromwell was not a terrorist but a war leader, since he had an army, but personally I wouldn&#039;t stop calling Osama a terrorist if he had an army the size of the Soviet Union&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>A statue on Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses of Parliament in London commemorates Boudiccea. Parliament in its wisdom surly wouldn&#8217;t wish to celebrate a terrorist and terrorism.</i></p>

	<p>Since my satire-meter is busted today (can&#8217;t really help it living in America) I&#8217;ll assume this was meant somewhat seriously. And note that it seems like a rather odd position to take given that the parliament also features a <a href="<a" title="">statue of Oliver Cromwell</a> href=&#8221;http://www.london-gb.com/pictures/olly.html&#8221; rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221;>http://www.london-gb.com/pictures/olly.html. I guess some will want to say that Cromwell was not a terrorist but a war leader, since he had an army, but personally I wouldn&#8217;t stop calling Osama a terrorist if he had an army the size of the Soviet Union&#8217;s.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-2/#comment-78802</link>
		<dc:creator>Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78802</guid>
		<description>To daniel:

-&gt;And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that

-&gt;did you bomb my chip shop?

If you refer to the blitz: most likely not, as I was not even born then. And neither of my siblings, as they were in Hitlers KZ&#039;s by then for being catholic and dissident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To daniel:</p>

	<p>->And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that</p>

	<p>->did you bomb my chip shop?</p>

	<p>If you refer to the blitz: most likely not, as I was not even born then. And neither of my siblings, as they were in Hitlers KZ&#8217;s by then for being catholic and dissident.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: test</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-2/#comment-78677</link>
		<dc:creator>test</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78677</guid>
		<description>test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>test</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Verity</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78665</link>
		<dc:creator>Verity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78665</guid>
		<description>jim (no 6) - V good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>jim (no 6) &#8211; V good!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78344</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78344</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that&lt;/i&gt;

did you bomb my chip shop?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that</i></p>

	<p>did you bomb my chip shop?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78341</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78341</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m unsure whether any here will want to read this but it was specifically mentioned on the BBCR4 Today programme on Saturday as a horrifying account by one rescuer of conditions underground in the tube after the explosions:

&quot;Sergeant Steve Betts of the British Transport police was one of the first rescuers to reach the Piccadilly line train between King&#039;s Cross and Russell Square on Thursday. This is his harrowing account: . . . &quot;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1524834,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m unsure whether any here will want to read this but it was specifically mentioned on the <span class="caps">BBCR4 </span>Today programme on Saturday as a horrifying account by one rescuer of conditions underground in the tube after the explosions:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Sergeant Steve Betts of the British Transport police was one of the first rescuers to reach the Piccadilly line train between King&#8217;s Cross and Russell Square on Thursday. This is his harrowing account: . . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1524834,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1524834,00.html</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78339</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78339</guid>
		<description>A statue on Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses of Parliament in London commemorates Boudiccea. Parliament in its wisdom surly wouldn&#039;t wish to celebrate a terrorist and terrorism.

On terrorism, I think Confucius was about right:

Confucius Analects XV.23: Tzu-kung asked, saying, &quot;Is there one world which may serve as a rule of practice for all one&#039;s life?&quot; The Master said, &quot;Is not reciprocity such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.&quot;
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHPHIL/ANALECTS.HTM

By this account, the Romans treated the daughters of Boudiccea shamefully after the death of Prasutagus, her husband.
http://www.thorthebarbarian.com/chronicles/April05/Barbarianmusings.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A statue on Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses of Parliament in London commemorates Boudiccea. Parliament in its wisdom surly wouldn&#8217;t wish to celebrate a terrorist and terrorism.</p>

	<p>On terrorism, I think Confucius was about right:</p>

	<p>Confucius Analects XV.23: Tzu-kung asked, saying, &#8220;Is there one world which may serve as a rule of practice for all one&#8217;s life?&#8221; The Master said, &#8220;Is not reciprocity such a word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHPHIL/ANALECTS.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CHPHIL/ANALECTS.HTM</a></p>

	<p>By this account, the Romans treated the daughters of Boudiccea shamefully after the death of Prasutagus, her husband.<br />
<a href="http://www.thorthebarbarian.com/chronicles/April05/Barbarianmusings.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.thorthebarbarian.com/chronicles/April05/Barbarianmusings.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78335</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78335</guid>
		<description>--

However, a challenging question: was Boudiccea a terrorist?

--

But then the Romans attacked and defeated her army.

--

Seems pretty straightforward, if you have an army, you are not a terrorist, you are a war leader committing military atrocities. 

There is more than one type of bad thing in the world, so to get the most basic of understandings of it, you have to be prepared to use more than one word.

soru</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8212;<br />
However, a challenging question: was Boudiccea a terrorist?<br />
&#8212;<br />
But then the Romans attacked and defeated her army.<br />
&#8212;<br />
Seems pretty straightforward, if you have an army, you are not a terrorist, you are a war leader committing military atrocities.</p>

	<p>There is more than one type of bad thing in the world, so to get the most basic of understandings of it, you have to be prepared to use more than one word.</p>

	<p>soru</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78327</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78327</guid>
		<description>The Lambeth Walk is another anthem to Londoners and one much less sentimental than Noel Coward&#039;s London Pride at the head of this thread:

Everything free and easy,
Do as you darn well pleasy,
Why don&#039;t you make your way there
Go there, stay there.

Once you get down Lambeth way
Ev&#039;ry ev&#039;ning, ev&#039;ry day,
You&#039;ll find yourself
Doin&#039; the Lambeth Walk.

- from: http://www.vauxhallsociety.org.uk/LambethDoing.html

As I was born in Lambeth many decades back, this old musical hall song has a special personal resonance but its evident anarchic under- or overtones seems to reflect something that is historically distinctive about the character of Londoners, which perhaps helps to explain how John Wilkes became Lord Mayor of London in 1774:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/c-eight/people/wilkes.htm
http://www.steeljam.dircon.co.uk/lordmayorchrono.htm

Notice also in the second link the name of Richard Whittington, a country boy from Gloucester who came to London to seek his fortune and became Lord Mayor four times, twice in 1397, and then in 1406 and 1419. We still celebrate this in a perennial Christmas pantomime - Dick Whittington and his Cat - which says something about the age-old legend of London as an open city:
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/learning/features_facts/viking_1.html

However, a challenging question: was Boudiccea a terrorist?

Boudiccea&#039;s Revolt 61 AD

&quot;Boudiccea and her husband headed the old tribe Iceni and they wanted to keep their culture when the Romans came. The Romans were not happy with those people and so they attacked the Iceni culture after Boudiccea’s husband had died. But Boudiccea rebelled with the help of her nation. The Romans made no differences when they fought against women. According to Dioderus of Sicily:

&quot;&#039;Among the Celts the women were nearly as tall as the men, whom they rival in courage ...&#039; and by Ammiamus Marcellinus the Roman, &#039;... in a fight anyone of them can resist several strangers at a time, with no other help than his wife, who is even more formidable.&#039;

&quot;With the help of the army of the Iceni and Trinovantes tribes, Boudiccea sacked the Roman cities of Camuldodunum, London and Verulaminum. Her army consisted of well trained warriors, common people and no doubt women. They used shields, spears knives and swords in their fights. Horses were also very important. But then the Romans attacked and defeated her army. Boudiccea committed suicide. But Gaul and Britain were never truly romanised. The Roman Empire disintegrated and the people of the land had not forgotten their heritage, and the land was once again a place of a golden Celtic age.&quot;
http://www.uni-duisburg.de/SCHULEN/STG/Irland/Celts/Timetable..htm

The little worry about that historical take is that the Celts were not native inhabitants of Britain. In fact, Celts migrated to Britain to settle here. They didn&#039;t build Stonehenge, which long preceded their arrival.
http://www.great-britain.co.uk/regions/southern-england/stonehenge.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Lambeth Walk is another anthem to Londoners and one much less sentimental than Noel Coward&#8217;s London Pride at the head of this thread:</p>

	<p>Everything free and easy,<br />
Do as you darn well pleasy,<br />
Why don&#8217;t you make your way there<br />
Go there, stay there.</p>

	<p>Once you get down Lambeth way<br />
Ev&#8217;ry ev&#8217;ning, ev&#8217;ry day,<br />
You&#8217;ll find yourself<br />
Doin&#8217; the Lambeth Walk.</p>
 &#8211; from: <a href="http://www.vauxhallsociety.org.uk/LambethDoing.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.vauxhallsociety.org.uk/LambethDoing.html</a>

	<p>As I was born in Lambeth many decades back, this old musical hall song has a special personal resonance but its evident anarchic under- or overtones seems to reflect something that is historically distinctive about the character of Londoners, which perhaps helps to explain how John Wilkes became Lord Mayor of London in 1774:<br />
<a href="http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/c-eight/people/wilkes.htm" rel="nofollow">http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/c-eight/people/wilkes.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.steeljam.dircon.co.uk/lordmayorchrono.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.steeljam.dircon.co.uk/lordmayorchrono.htm</a></p>

	<p>Notice also in the second link the name of Richard Whittington, a country boy from Gloucester who came to London to seek his fortune and became Lord Mayor four times, twice in 1397, and then in 1406 and 1419. We still celebrate this in a perennial Christmas pantomime &#8211; Dick Whittington and his Cat &#8211; which says something about the age-old legend of London as an open city:<br />
<a href="http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/learning/features_facts/viking_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/learning/features_facts/viking_1.html</a></p>

	<p>However, a challenging question: was Boudiccea a terrorist?</p>

	<p>Boudiccea&#8217;s Revolt 61 AD</p>

	<p>&#8220;Boudiccea and her husband headed the old tribe Iceni and they wanted to keep their culture when the Romans came. The Romans were not happy with those people and so they attacked the Iceni culture after Boudiccea&#8217;s husband had died. But Boudiccea rebelled with the help of her nation. The Romans made no differences when they fought against women. According to Dioderus of Sicily:</p>

	<p>&#8220;&#8217;Among the Celts the women were nearly as tall as the men, whom they rival in courage &#8230;&#8217; and by Ammiamus Marcellinus the Roman, &#8216;&#8230; in a fight anyone of them can resist several strangers at a time, with no other help than his wife, who is even more formidable.&#8217;</p>

	<p>&#8220;With the help of the army of the Iceni and Trinovantes tribes, Boudiccea sacked the Roman cities of Camuldodunum, London and Verulaminum. Her army consisted of well trained warriors, common people and no doubt women. They used shields, spears knives and swords in their fights. Horses were also very important. But then the Romans attacked and defeated her army. Boudiccea committed suicide. But Gaul and Britain were never truly romanised. The Roman Empire disintegrated and the people of the land had not forgotten their heritage, and the land was once again a place of a golden Celtic age.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.uni-duisburg.de/SCHULEN/STG/Irland/Celts/Timetable" rel="nofollow">http://www.uni-duisburg.de/SCHULEN/STG/Irland/Celts/Timetable</a>..htm</p>

	<p>The little worry about that historical take is that the Celts were not native inhabitants of Britain. In fact, Celts migrated to Britain to settle here. They didn&#8217;t build Stonehenge, which long preceded their arrival.<br />
<a href="http://www.great-britain.co.uk/regions/southern-england/stonehenge.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.great-britain.co.uk/regions/southern-england/stonehenge.htm</a></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ab</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78216</link>
		<dc:creator>ab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 04:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78216</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern and western quarters.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s most likely a fake al-Qaeda statement.

Anyway, whoever wrote it must feel rather stupid now.

One more lesson why you should be careful with the &quot;send it&quot; button on the Internet...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern and western quarters.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s most likely a fake al-Qaeda statement.</p>

	<p>Anyway, whoever wrote it must feel rather stupid now.</p>

	<p>One more lesson why you should be careful with the &#8220;send it&#8221; button on the Internet&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78214</link>
		<dc:creator>Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78214</guid>
		<description>Hello everyone,

I&#039;m a german journalist who works in London. Having ceaselessly covered the going ons of this place, and having done so for the last some 60 hours, having seen how London deals with this atrocity, having felt the defiance, the stubbornness of London, I want to express my great admirance for all of you.
And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that, it fills me with pride to be in London right now.

Let&#039;s raise a virtual glass
To London!

Bertram Quadt, German Broadcasting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hello everyone,</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m a german journalist who works in London. Having ceaselessly covered the going ons of this place, and having done so for the last some 60 hours, having seen how London deals with this atrocity, having felt the defiance, the stubbornness of London, I want to express my great admirance for all of you.<br />
And though I am a foreigner, and a german one on top of that, it fills me with pride to be in London right now.</p>

	<p>Let&#8217;s raise a virtual glass<br />
To London!</p>

	<p>Bertram Quadt, German Broadcasting</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ian b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78167</link>
		<dc:creator>ian b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78167</guid>
		<description>Still, mustn&#039;t grumble...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Still, mustn&#8217;t grumble&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78124</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78124</guid>
		<description>To be honest, as an adopted Londoner, I&#039;m now showing the national traits by getting rather sick of all the gushing encomia to London.  At the end of the day, Coventry or Turin or Oslo would have reacted more or less the same, since the choices are &quot;tough it out&quot; or &quot;go to fucking pieces&quot; and the second one is so obviously the wrong choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To be honest, as an adopted Londoner, I&#8217;m now showing the national traits by getting rather sick of all the gushing encomia to London.  At the end of the day, Coventry or Turin or Oslo would have reacted more or less the same, since the choices are &#8220;tough it out&#8221; or &#8220;go to fucking pieces&#8221; and the second one is so obviously the wrong choice.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David All</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78122</link>
		<dc:creator>David All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78122</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this thread and all who have posted here. It is inspiring to rememeber how the British people have met &amp; prevailed over past threats and to see how Londoners are bearing up under this latest menace. As someone who was in the Pentagon on Sept. 11th and who works there still, I will mention something that was a reassurance for me after 9/11 and is a very appropriate response to Thursday&#039;s horrible terrorist attacks. It sums up what we must do in order to keep these monsters from winning. 

&quot;The only thing we have to Fear, is Fear, Itself! 
FDR, 1st Innagural Address, March 4th, 1933.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for this thread and all who have posted here. It is inspiring to rememeber how the British people have met &#038; prevailed over past threats and to see how Londoners are bearing up under this latest menace. As someone who was in the Pentagon on Sept. 11th and who works there still, I will mention something that was a reassurance for me after 9/11 and is a very appropriate response to Thursday&#8217;s horrible terrorist attacks. It sums up what we must do in order to keep these monsters from winning.</p>

	<p>&#8220;The only thing we have to Fear, is Fear, Itself!<br />
<span class="caps">FDR</span>, 1st Innagural Address, March 4th, 1933.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-78121</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/07/london-pride/#comment-78121</guid>
		<description>Rollo,

I was quoting from Disraeli&#039;s novel: Tancred (1847)

One of the joys of being British is that parts of the media here, including the BBC, spend much time, space and energy to disputing the official claims of governments and we have periodic opportunities to vote our government out of power if we so choose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Rollo,</p>

	<p>I was quoting from Disraeli&#8217;s novel: Tancred (1847)</p>

	<p>One of the joys of being British is that parts of the media here, including the <span class="caps">BBC</span>, spend much time, space and energy to disputing the official claims of governments and we have periodic opportunities to vote our government out of power if we so choose.</p>
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