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	<title>Comments on: This is his defense, remember</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81313</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81313</guid>
		<description>MDP, the answer to your point is probably in the question Blitzer asked. 

BLITZER: But she hadn&#039;t been a clandestine officer *for some time before that?*

Once the CIA filed a criminal referral and that fact was disclosed to the public, the fact that she was a NOC at the time Novak wrote his piece was on public record. But *when* she became did not enter the public record immediately. In between the time that the NOC status was disclosed and other biographical details became public record, Wilson might be said to have disclosed classified information had he answered a question like Blitzer&#039;s. Indeed, only he and Plame know the details of the agreement they have with the CIA on what they may and may not talk about. Furthermore, the agreement as to what is public record and what is not has almost certainly evolved as more material has come out. 

By the time of the Blitzer interview, the Plame biography was out there, and was probably on the public record. However, people who hold security clearances are very careful about unscripted discussions and reflexively dodge questions that people who don&#039;t hold security clearances may think are innocuous. I am pretty certain he could have answered the question without disclosing confidential information. But he may have sensed a trap that could have resulted in disclosure. 

So, why Wilson chose to answer Blitzer as he did is a matter of speculation. Basically, nothing is certain except that Wilson has been more or less cautious depending on the circumstances. That may have a lot to do with how well events are scripted and whether inadvertent disclosures can be fixed by an editor before going nationwide. Maybe not.  

By looking for minor dissonances in Wilson&#039;s story while ignoring gross dishonesty by the White House, you are grasping at straws while timbers are crashing down on your head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">MDP</span>, the answer to your point is probably in the question Blitzer asked.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">BLITZER</span>: But she hadn&#8217;t been a clandestine officer <strong>for some time before that?</strong></p>

	<p>Once the <span class="caps">CIA</span> filed a criminal referral and that fact was disclosed to the public, the fact that she was a <span class="caps">NOC</span> at the time Novak wrote his piece was on public record. But <strong>when</strong> she became did not enter the public record immediately. In between the time that the <span class="caps">NOC</span> status was disclosed and other biographical details became public record, Wilson might be said to have disclosed classified information had he answered a question like Blitzer&#8217;s. Indeed, only he and Plame know the details of the agreement they have with the <span class="caps">CIA</span> on what they may and may not talk about. Furthermore, the agreement as to what is public record and what is not has almost certainly evolved as more material has come out.</p>

	<p>By the time of the Blitzer interview, the Plame biography was out there, and was probably on the public record. However, people who hold security clearances are very careful about unscripted discussions and reflexively dodge questions that people who don&#8217;t hold security clearances may think are innocuous. I am pretty certain he could have answered the question without disclosing confidential information. But he may have sensed a trap that could have resulted in disclosure.</p>

	<p>So, why Wilson chose to answer Blitzer as he did is a matter of speculation. Basically, nothing is certain except that Wilson has been more or less cautious depending on the circumstances. That may have a lot to do with how well events are scripted and whether inadvertent disclosures can be fixed by an editor before going nationwide. Maybe not.</p>

	<p>By looking for minor dissonances in Wilson&#8217;s story while ignoring gross dishonesty by the White House, you are grasping at straws while timbers are crashing down on your head.</p>
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		<title>By: rdb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81191</link>
		<dc:creator>rdb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81191</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Dean @ Findlaw: It Appears That Karl Rove Is In Serious Trouble&lt;/a&gt;

...
No Apparent Violation Of The Identities Protection Act
..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html" rel="nofollow">John Dean @ Findlaw: It Appears That Karl Rove Is In Serious Trouble</a></p>

	<p>&#8230;<br />
No Apparent Violation Of The Identities Protection Act<br />
..</p>
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		<title>By: MDP</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81190</link>
		<dc:creator>MDP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81190</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Charles: &lt;i&gt;Uh… MDP. By the time of the Vanity Fair interview, the CIA had confirmed that Plame had been covert by filing a criminal complaint with the Department of Justice.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

modus potus wrote that, &quot;[u]nder law, Wilson couldn’t say&quot; whether Plame was a covert agent. I responded with the question about Vanity Fair because Wilson confirmed precisely this information to the magazine. I&#039;m not saying Wilson did anything wrong in speaking to VF. I &lt;i&gt;am&lt;/i&gt; saying that his &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/dumb-enough-for-you/#comment-81065&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;selective reticence&lt;/a&gt; is suspcious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Charles: <i>Uh&#8230; <span class="caps">MDP</span>. By the time of the Vanity Fair interview, the <span class="caps">CIA</span> had confirmed that Plame had been covert by filing a criminal complaint with the Department of Justice.</i></blockquote></p>

	<p>modus potus wrote that, &#8220;[u]nder law, Wilson couldn&#8217;t say&#8221; whether Plame was a covert agent. I responded with the question about Vanity Fair because Wilson confirmed precisely this information to the magazine. I&#8217;m not saying Wilson did anything wrong in speaking to VF. I <i>am</i> saying that his <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/dumb-enough-for-you/#comment-81065" rel="nofollow">selective reticence</a> is suspcious.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81137</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81137</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Maybe he wants to leave the misimpression that she was a covert agent until the moment Novak’s column appeared.&lt;/i&gt;

And maybe you&#039;re full of shit, mdp. Or rather, maybe you were not full of shit until the day you received your GOP talking points enema.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Maybe he wants to leave the misimpression that she was a covert agent until the moment Novak&#8217;s column appeared.</i></p>

	<p>And maybe you&#8217;re full of shit, mdp. Or rather, maybe you were not full of shit until the day you received your <span class="caps">GOP</span> talking points enema.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81092</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 05:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81092</guid>
		<description>Uh... MDP. 

By the time of the Vanity Fair interview, the CIA had confirmed that Plame had been covert by filing a criminal complaint with the Department of Justice. 

Right up to the day that Novak blew her cover.

The attempt to pretend that Plame&#039;s NOC status was not destroyed by the Novak article is a morally bankrupt argument. It serves only to try to save criminals from the lash of justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Uh&#8230; <span class="caps">MDP</span>.</p>

	<p>By the time of the Vanity Fair interview, the <span class="caps">CIA</span> had confirmed that Plame had been covert by filing a criminal complaint with the Department of Justice.</p>

	<p>Right up to the day that Novak blew her cover.</p>

	<p>The attempt to pretend that Plame&#8217;s <span class="caps">NOC</span> status was not destroyed by the Novak article is a morally bankrupt argument. It serves only to try to save criminals from the lash of justice.</p>
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		<title>By: MDP</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81083</link>
		<dc:creator>MDP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 02:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81083</guid>
		<description>modus,

Why was Wilson willing to confirm to Vanity Fair that Plame was a covert operative in the 1997?

&lt;blockquote&gt;At the time, Wilson was based in Stuttgart, serving as the political adviser to George Joulwan, the U.S. general in charge of the European command; Plame was based in Brussels. Meeting in Paris, London, and Brussels, they got very serious very quickly. On the third or fourth date, he says, they were in the middle of a &quot;heavy make-out&quot; session when she said she had something to tell him. She was very conflicted and very nervous, thinking of everything that had gone into getting her to that point, such as money and training.

She was, she explained, undercover in the C.I.A. &quot;It did nothing to dampen my ardor,&quot; he says. &quot;My only question was: Is your name really Valerie?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jimgilliam.com/2004/01/vanity_fairs_profile_on_joseph_wilson_and_valerie_plame.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>modus,</p>

	<p>Why was Wilson willing to confirm to Vanity Fair that Plame was a covert operative in the 1997?</p>

	<p><blockquote>At the time, Wilson was based in Stuttgart, serving as the political adviser to George Joulwan, the U.S. general in charge of the European command; Plame was based in Brussels. Meeting in Paris, London, and Brussels, they got very serious very quickly. On the third or fourth date, he says, they were in the middle of a &#8220;heavy make-out&#8221; session when she said she had something to tell him. She was very conflicted and very nervous, thinking of everything that had gone into getting her to that point, such as money and training.</blockquote></p>

	<p>She was, she explained, undercover in the C.I.A. &#8220;It did nothing to dampen my ardor,&#8221; he says. &#8220;My only question was: Is your name really Valerie?&#8221;</p>
 &#8211; <a href="http://www.jimgilliam.com/2004/01/vanity_fairs_profile_on_joseph_wilson_and_valerie_plame.php" rel="nofollow">link</a>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81078</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81078</guid>
		<description>I hope that this is the story Karl is telling the grand jury.  There’s gotta be perjury in that story if told under oath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I hope that this is the story Karl is telling the grand jury.  There&#8217;s gotta be perjury in that story if told under oath.</p>
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		<title>By: modus potus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81071</link>
		<dc:creator>modus potus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81071</guid>
		<description>mdp,

Under law, Wilson &lt;i&gt;couldn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; say. As someone who&#039;s held security clearances, it was drilled into me that even if classified information was revealed on the front page of the New York Times, it was neither to be confirmed or denied until I had determined that the classifying authority had de-classified it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>mdp,</p>

	<p>Under law, Wilson <i>couldn&#8217;t</i> say. As someone who&#8217;s held security clearances, it was drilled into me that even if classified information was revealed on the front page of the New York Times, it was neither to be confirmed or denied until I had determined that the classifying authority had de-classified it.</p>
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		<title>By: MDP</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81069</link>
		<dc:creator>MDP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 23:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81069</guid>
		<description>MDP: [quoting Wilson]&lt;i&gt;“my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.”&lt;/i&gt;

Kevin Donoghue: &lt;i&gt;MDP, isn’t that rather an obvious statement? What about the day before?&lt;/i&gt;

Wilson &lt;a href=&quot;http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;refuses&lt;/a&gt; to say. Maybe he wants to leave the misimpression that she was a covert agent until the moment Novak&#039;s column appeared. Since the entire world now knows she worked for the CIA, why is he being coy about her status at the time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">MDP</span>: [quoting Wilson]<i>&#8220;my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Kevin Donoghue: <i><span class="caps">MDP</span>, isn&#8217;t that rather an obvious statement? What about the day before?</i></p>

	<p>Wilson <a href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html" rel="nofollow">refuses</a> to say. Maybe he wants to leave the misimpression that she was a covert agent until the moment Novak&#8217;s column appeared. Since the entire world now knows she worked for the <span class="caps">CIA</span>, why is he being coy about her status at the time?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81059</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81059</guid>
		<description>Grand Moff, I think the idea would be to diminish his credentials and make him out to be a crank acting off his own bat on the one hand, distracting attention from his excellent credentials. On the other it distances the adminstration from the results of his mission. 

I imagine Rove trying to encourage the kind of talking points that have come out now but the line is so weak that the journalists informed only picked up on the secret information aspect causing attention of entirely the wrong sort.

As an act of revenge it seems rather odd. She wasn&#039;t personally endagered. I can imagine that she is very annoyed but it doesn&#039;t seem like the kind of thing that would spring to mind as revenge. I mean it makes the couple look like the parents in Spy Kids.

This is not meant to be any kind of apologia, it just seems more likely to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Grand Moff, I think the idea would be to diminish his credentials and make him out to be a crank acting off his own bat on the one hand, distracting attention from his excellent credentials. On the other it distances the adminstration from the results of his mission.</p>

	<p>I imagine Rove trying to encourage the kind of talking points that have come out now but the line is so weak that the journalists informed only picked up on the secret information aspect causing attention of entirely the wrong sort.</p>

	<p>As an act of revenge it seems rather odd. She wasn&#8217;t personally endagered. I can imagine that she is very annoyed but it doesn&#8217;t seem like the kind of thing that would spring to mind as revenge. I mean it makes the couple look like the parents in Spy Kids.</p>

	<p>This is not meant to be any kind of apologia, it just seems more likely to me.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenGiant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81055</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenGiant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81055</guid>
		<description>Rove won&#039;t be indicted from the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.  The statute as written provides lots of wiggle room.

However, that doesn&#039;t mean he is out of trouble in the least.  He can still face espionage charges, and charges stemming from violating his NDA.  Both charges dissociate the requirement of KNOWINGLY divulging classified information.  

Frankly they are pretty much airtight compared to the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.  VP&#039;s covert status is null, only her classified status matters. (which was clearly secret).  It doesn&#039;t allow for negligent disclosure or divulgement of &quot;well-known&quot; classified information, nor does it allow for &quot;confirmation&quot; of classified information.

Which..as far as I can tell, destroys the defense 
his actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Rove won&#8217;t be indicted from the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.  The statute as written provides lots of wiggle room.</p>

	<p>However, that doesn&#8217;t mean he is out of trouble in the least.  He can still face espionage charges, and charges stemming from violating his <span class="caps">NDA</span>.  Both charges dissociate the requirement of <span class="caps">KNOWINGLY</span> divulging classified information.</p>

	<p>Frankly they are pretty much airtight compared to the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.  VP&#8217;s covert status is null, only her classified status matters. (which was clearly secret).  It doesn&#8217;t allow for negligent disclosure or divulgement of &#8220;well-known&#8221; classified information, nor does it allow for &#8220;confirmation&#8221; of classified information.</p>

	<p>Which..as far as I can tell, destroys the defense<br />
his actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Independent</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-81053</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-81053</guid>
		<description>Maybe Conyers will hold another party for the tinfoil hat society down in the basement.  Don&#039;t give up, if you keep throwing shit out there something is bound to stick.  Only problem is - noone will care but the tinfoil hat society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maybe Conyers will hold another party for the tinfoil hat society down in the basement.  Don&#8217;t give up, if you keep throwing shit out there something is bound to stick.  Only problem is &#8211; noone will care but the tinfoil hat society.</p>
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		<title>By: luckyjack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-80944</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-80944</guid>
		<description>MDP,

Why don&#039;t you peddle your lunatic right-wing up-is-down traitorous horseshit somewhere else. You may have taken leave of your senses but most at CT have not. I suppose the CIA refers cases for investigation to the Jusice Dept. for kicks. Is being a traitor &quot;politically convenient&quot; for you MDP?

And no Ted, if you knew the first thing about this you&#039;d realize MDP isn&#039;t making a &quot;fair point&quot; but simply vomiting up the latest Republican smear against a CIA officer and her family. Spineless and pathetic.

cheers,
--lj--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">MDP</span>,</p>

	<p>Why don&#8217;t you peddle your lunatic right-wing up-is-down traitorous horseshit somewhere else. You may have taken leave of your senses but most at CT have not. I suppose the <span class="caps">CIA</span> refers cases for investigation to the Jusice Dept. for kicks. Is being a traitor &#8220;politically convenient&#8221; for you <span class="caps">MDP</span>?</p>

	<p>And no Ted, if you knew the first thing about this you&#8217;d realize <span class="caps">MDP</span> isn&#8217;t making a &#8220;fair point&#8221; but simply vomiting up the latest Republican smear against a <span class="caps">CIA</span> officer and her family. Spineless and pathetic.</p>

	<p>cheers,&#8212;lj&#8212;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-80929</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-80929</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;“my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.”&lt;/em&gt;

MDP, isn&#039;t that rather an obvious statement? What about the day before?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>&#8220;my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.&#8221;</em></p>

	<p><span class="caps">MDP</span>, isn&#8217;t that rather an obvious statement? What about the day before?</p>
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		<title>By: Chef</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/15/this-is-his-defense-remember/comment-page-1/#comment-80924</link>
		<dc:creator>Chef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3554#comment-80924</guid>
		<description>Is Novak a Neo-Con and a policy wonk, like Steve Forbes? Is that why he&#039;s not in jail? Tell me again why Miller is in jail and Novak is not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is Novak a Neo-Con and a policy wonk, like Steve Forbes? Is that why he&#8217;s not in jail? Tell me again why Miller is in jail and Novak is not?</p>
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