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	<title>Comments on: The real villains</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-85028</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-85028</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yeats said it best&lt;/i&gt;

Or as Oscar Wilde said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We are all in the gutter, but Christopher Hitchens... Jesus Christ, Christopher Hitchens...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I refrain from stating the obvious about the evident soundess of Hitch&#039;s wrist...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Yeats said it best</i></p>

	<p>Or as Oscar Wilde said:</p>

	<p><blockquote>We are all in the gutter, but Christopher Hitchens&#8230; Jesus Christ, Christopher Hitchens&#8230;</blockquote></p>

	<p>I refrain from stating the obvious about the evident soundess of Hitch&#8217;s wrist&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84883</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84883</guid>
		<description>Increasingly it appears that there was major damage from the revelations.  Remember, it was not only Plame&#039;s cover that was blown but also the company she worked for and all the associated spooks.  Is any one trying to track back and see who disappeared at about the time of the leaks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Increasingly it appears that there was major damage from the revelations.  Remember, it was not only Plame&#8217;s cover that was blown but also the company she worked for and all the associated spooks.  Is any one trying to track back and see who disappeared at about the time of the leaks?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: perianwyr</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84731</link>
		<dc:creator>perianwyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84731</guid>
		<description>prolix. 

I came across some site that asked you to name your favorite word, but I like a lot of words and haven&#039;t got a lot of time, so I couldn&#039;t rattle that one off. But now that you&#039;ve reminded me- what a sexy word. I love it so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>prolix.</p>

	<p>I came across some site that asked you to name your favorite word, but I like a lot of words and haven&#8217;t got a lot of time, so I couldn&#8217;t rattle that one off. But now that you&#8217;ve reminded me- what a sexy word. I love it so.</p>
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		<title>By: Blixa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84482</link>
		<dc:creator>Blixa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84482</guid>
		<description>ben,

&lt;i&gt;The administration insisted that Saddam was purchasing yellowcake uranium from Niger&lt;/i&gt;

Heh.  When did they &quot;insist&quot; that he &quot;was purchasing&quot; anything?  Try again.


nick,

&lt;i&gt;in which the CIA was conspiring against Emperor George
&lt;/i&gt;

Didn&#039;t say that.  Just said incompetent.  (And I&#039;m only talking about one particular group BTW - the group responsible for sending Wilson - not &quot;the CIA&quot; en masse.)  The Wilson trip was not the way one would actually investigate a potential contraband transaction one was tasked with investigating.  Anyone who thinks it is, is incompetent on the face of it, at best.

p.s. I&#039;m unclear on your definition of &quot;troll&quot;.  Seems to more or less coincide with &quot;disagrees with me&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ben,</p>

	<p><i>The administration insisted that Saddam was purchasing yellowcake uranium from Niger</i></p>

	<p>Heh.  When did they &#8220;insist&#8221; that he &#8220;was purchasing&#8221; anything?  Try again.</p>


	<p>nick,</p>

	<p><i>in which the <span class="caps">CIA</span> was conspiring against Emperor George<br />
</i></p>

	<p>Didn&#8217;t say that.  Just said incompetent.  (And I&#8217;m only talking about one particular group <span class="caps">BTW </span>- the group responsible for sending Wilson &#8211; not &#8220;the <span class="caps">CIA</span>&#8221; en masse.)  The Wilson trip was not the way one would actually investigate a potential contraband transaction one was tasked with investigating.  Anyone who thinks it is, is incompetent on the face of it, at best.</p>

	<p>p.s. I&#8217;m unclear on your definition of &#8220;troll&#8221;.  Seems to more or less coincide with &#8220;disagrees with me&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84457</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84457</guid>
		<description>Blixa appears to have downloaded the latest &#039;Bizarro World&#039; upgrade of Trollbot 0.8-beta, in which the CIA was conspiring against Emperor George, and may have even helped bundle those tonnes of WMDs off to Syria; Joe Wilson was a Kerry campaign advisor in February 2002 who was desperate to get away from his &#039;little wifey&#039; on an expenses-paid trip to sunny Niger, top destination of the rich and famous; and Valerie Wilson was both one level up from the office janitor and one level down from George Tenet.

It still needs some of the bugs ironing out, I see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Blixa appears to have downloaded the latest &#8216;Bizarro World&#8217; upgrade of Trollbot 0.8-beta, in which the <span class="caps">CIA</span> was conspiring against Emperor George, and may have even helped bundle those tonnes of WMDs off to Syria; Joe Wilson was a Kerry campaign advisor in February 2002 who was desperate to get away from his &#8216;little wifey&#8217; on an expenses-paid trip to sunny Niger, top destination of the rich and famous; and Valerie Wilson was both one level up from the office janitor and one level down from George Tenet.</p>

	<p>It still needs some of the bugs ironing out, I see.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ben Alpers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84322</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Alpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84322</guid>
		<description>er, blixa....

The administration insisted that Saddam was purchasing yellowcake uranium from Niger, and that this was part of a massive WMD program that constituted a grave danger to the U.S.

In fact, Saddam was doing no such thing (and there was no such WMD program...or even -- can we say now? -- WMD program related activities).

Despite your prolix derision of Joe Wilson&#039;s investigation, on the facts, Wilson proved to be absolutely right, the Bush administration dead wrong.

It&#039;s really pretty simple. And all your handwringing about the left and the CIA, Joe Wilson&#039;s qualifications, the inability of the press to behave as you&#039;d want them to without Turdblossom&#039;s assistance, and so forth is quite beside the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>er, blixa&#8230;.</p>

	<p>The administration insisted that Saddam was purchasing yellowcake uranium from Niger, and that this was part of a massive <span class="caps">WMD</span> program that constituted a grave danger to the U.S.</p>

	<p>In fact, Saddam was doing no such thing (and there was no such <span class="caps">WMD</span> program&#8230;or even&#8212;can we say now?&#8212;<span class="caps">WMD</span> program related activities).</p>

	<p>Despite your prolix derision of Joe Wilson&#8217;s investigation, on the facts, Wilson proved to be absolutely right, the Bush administration dead wrong.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s really pretty simple. And all your handwringing about the left and the <span class="caps">CIA</span>, Joe Wilson&#8217;s qualifications, the inability of the press to behave as you&#8217;d want them to without Turdblossom&#8217;s assistance, and so forth is quite beside the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Blixa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84314</link>
		<dc:creator>Blixa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 04:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84314</guid>
		<description>Personally, yes I&#039;d like to learn whoever was truly responsible for sending Wilson to Niger to &quot;investigate&quot; (I use the term near-infinitely loosely) the uranium thing.  Exposing and shaming (ideally firing) said person could be only salutary, because whoever authorized this idiocy is incompetent at best.  Ideally, and in times past (as recently as the &#039;80s perhaps), that wouldn&#039;t be up to Rove at all, because this sort of thing - you know, exposing government incompetence and silly CIA shenanigans? - might have actually attracted the interest of, well, &lt;i&gt;the press&lt;/i&gt;.  Due to laziness or some other reason (golly, wonder why), the press is currently not interested in such things.  On the contrary they are willing and eager to just lap up at face-value the patently absurd notion that sending Ambadassor Joe Wilson to Niger to talk to bureaucrats (to Not Find stuff in Africa, essentially) made any amount of sense, or indeed even remotely resembled what one might expect a vigorous, competent intelligence investigation to actually consist of.

I can&#039;t imagine why some office-bound higher-up in a position to be Plame&#039;s Boss and to Sign Off On Idiotic Phony Investigations For Plame&#039;s Hubby would, simultaneously, be &quot;covert&quot;.  (Do we even know that Plame herself was &quot;covert&quot;?)  I suppose it&#039;s possible, in which case I guess I&#039;m out of luck, as it would be against the law for Rove or anyone else to grant me my wish.  Sigh.

To address the actual hypothetical, I cannot envision in the first place how Rove could get himself into a position to learn who the Plame&#039;s Boss is in our saga without simultaneously learning that the Plame&#039;s Boss in question is covert (if he/she is).  But it might be possible, in which case, from my understanding of the law making it illegal to expose covert CIA employees (an action that much of the left seems to have suddenly, recently decided they dislike - &quot;keep all CIA officers/assets secret!&quot;, now cries the left surreally), he&#039;d be off the hook.   Realistically I think this would have to ultimately involve &lt;i&gt;someone else&lt;/i&gt; doing the actual Exposing (learning the name &amp; covert nature of Plame&#039;s Boss from Classified docs, and passing that info on..) and Rove simply hearing only the name (not the covertness) on the grapevine.  So Rove&#039;d be in the clear and the O.E. (Original Exposer) could take the heat.  Blame it on a shoddily-written law, I suppose.  Course, my reading could easily be wrong,  IANAL.

Would I be mad just on an &quot;ethical&quot; level if Rove were to then say &quot;I heard Plame&#039;s Boss is named...&quot;? No (see above; the person ought to be not only exposed but fired).  At worst you could change &quot;mad&quot; to &quot;bored&quot; and be in the ballpark.  This silliness is enough to make me miss the good ol&#039; days when the left hated the CIA (or anyway, didn&#039;t pretend to love CIA), because at least &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; made some sense....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Personally, yes I&#8217;d like to learn whoever was truly responsible for sending Wilson to Niger to &#8220;investigate&#8221; (I use the term near-infinitely loosely) the uranium thing.  Exposing and shaming (ideally firing) said person could be only salutary, because whoever authorized this idiocy is incompetent at best.  Ideally, and in times past (as recently as the &#8216;80s perhaps), that wouldn&#8217;t be up to Rove at all, because this sort of thing &#8211; you know, exposing government incompetence and silly <span class="caps">CIA</span> shenanigans? &#8211; might have actually attracted the interest of, well, <i>the press</i>.  Due to laziness or some other reason (golly, wonder why), the press is currently not interested in such things.  On the contrary they are willing and eager to just lap up at face-value the patently absurd notion that sending Ambadassor Joe Wilson to Niger to talk to bureaucrats (to Not Find stuff in Africa, essentially) made any amount of sense, or indeed even remotely resembled what one might expect a vigorous, competent intelligence investigation to actually consist of.</p>

	<p>I can&#8217;t imagine why some office-bound higher-up in a position to be Plame&#8217;s Boss and to Sign Off On Idiotic Phony Investigations For Plame&#8217;s Hubby would, simultaneously, be &#8220;covert&#8221;.  (Do we even know that Plame herself was &#8220;covert&#8221;?)  I suppose it&#8217;s possible, in which case I guess I&#8217;m out of luck, as it would be against the law for Rove or anyone else to grant me my wish.  Sigh.</p>

	<p>To address the actual hypothetical, I cannot envision in the first place how Rove could get himself into a position to learn who the Plame&#8217;s Boss is in our saga without simultaneously learning that the Plame&#8217;s Boss in question is covert (if he/she is).  But it might be possible, in which case, from my understanding of the law making it illegal to expose covert <span class="caps">CIA</span> employees (an action that much of the left seems to have suddenly, recently decided they dislike &#8211; &#8220;keep all <span class="caps">CIA</span> officers/assets secret!&#8221;, now cries the left surreally), he&#8217;d be off the hook.   Realistically I think this would have to ultimately involve <i>someone else</i> doing the actual Exposing (learning the name &#038; covert nature of Plame&#8217;s Boss from Classified docs, and passing that info on..) and Rove simply hearing only the name (not the covertness) on the grapevine.  So Rove&#8217;d be in the clear and the O.E. (Original Exposer) could take the heat.  Blame it on a shoddily-written law, I suppose.  Course, my reading could easily be wrong,  <span class="caps">IANAL</span>.</p>

	<p>Would I be mad just on an &#8220;ethical&#8221; level if Rove were to then say &#8220;I heard Plame&#8217;s Boss is named&#8230;&#8221;? No (see above; the person ought to be not only exposed but fired).  At worst you could change &#8220;mad&#8221; to &#8220;bored&#8221; and be in the ballpark.  This silliness is enough to make me miss the good ol&#8217; days when the left hated the <span class="caps">CIA </span>(or anyway, didn&#8217;t pretend to love <span class="caps">CIA</span>), because at least <i>that</i> made some sense&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: David Sucher</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84305</link>
		<dc:creator>David Sucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 01:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84305</guid>
		<description>This post raises the age-old question about whether one should call attention to stupidity -- in this case, Hitchens&#039; -- by paying attention to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This post raises the age-old question about whether one should call attention to stupidity&#8212;in this case, Hitchens&#8217;&#8212;by paying attention to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84304</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 01:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84304</guid>
		<description>Ode to Hitchens: 

&lt;i&gt;What do you do with a drunken sailor? What do you do with a drunken sailor? What do you do with a drunken sailor? 

Give him a typewriter! &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ode to Hitchens:</p>

	<p><i>What do you do with a drunken sailor? What do you do with a drunken sailor? What do you do with a drunken sailor?</i></p>

	<p>Give him a typewriter! </p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84295</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84295</guid>
		<description>I wonder if Hitch will be diverting any of his fags-and-booze fund to help assuage the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/pr/2005/06-28-2005_1.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;current famine in Niger&lt;/a&gt;? Nah, didn&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder if Hitch will be diverting any of his fags-and-booze fund to help assuage the <a href="http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/pr/2005/06-28-2005_1.cfm" rel="nofollow">current famine in Niger</a>? Nah, didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: P ONeill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84205</link>
		<dc:creator>P ONeill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84205</guid>
		<description>Hitch used his NYT book review of the Deep Throat book to play the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/24/18137/3111&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;same games&lt;/a&gt;: that Rove was at worst defensively leaking against the 5th columnists in the CIA, and that Judith Miller is the only real victim in all this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hitch used his <span class="caps">NYT</span> book review of the Deep Throat book to play the <a href="http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/24/18137/3111" rel="nofollow">same games</a>: that Rove was at worst defensively leaking against the 5th columnists in the <span class="caps">CIA</span>, and that Judith Miller is the only real victim in all this.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84200</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84200</guid>
		<description>Henry, damn, wish I had thought of that. Although the only thing I like about the zombie that has taken over Hitchens body is the drinking. It shows he still has a conscience, hence the need to drown it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Henry, damn, wish I had thought of that. Although the only thing I like about the zombie that has taken over Hitchens body is the drinking. It shows he still has a conscience, hence the need to drown it.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84199</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84199</guid>
		<description>bq. Yeats said it best:

Indeed. But the lad with &quot;sound fly-fisher&#039;s wrist&quot;:http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Poetry/Yeats/Why_Should_not_Old_Men_Be_Angry is perhaps even more apropos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote>Yeats said it best:</blockquote>

	<p>Indeed. But the lad with <a href="<a" title="">sound fly-fisher&#8217;s wrist</a> href=&#8221;http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Poetry/Yeats/Why_Should_not_Old_Men_Be_Angry&#8221; rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221;>http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Poetry/Yeats/Why_Should_not_Old_Men_Be_Angry is perhaps even more apropos.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: robert the red</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84197</link>
		<dc:creator>robert the red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84197</guid>
		<description>But, didn&#039;t you know that Michael Moore is fat?  That&#039;s a free pass for any one crime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But, didn&#8217;t you know that Michael Moore is fat?  That&#8217;s a free pass for any one crime.</p>
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		<title>By: rilkefan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/07/25/the-real-villians/comment-page-1/#comment-84196</link>
		<dc:creator>rilkefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3594#comment-84196</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, the editorial &quot;Related at Slate&quot; roundup is expressed in extraordinary terms.  Maybe Hitch wrote it himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Incidentally, the editorial &#8220;Related at Slate&#8221; roundup is expressed in extraordinary terms.  Maybe Hitch wrote it himself.</p>
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