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	<title>Comments on: The one where I play Wonkette</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Troutsky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-91317</link>
		<dc:creator>Troutsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-91317</guid>
		<description>It is a fascinating system we have where a one -woman-spectacle instantly becomes the &quot;voice&quot; of the ant-war movement and it&#039;s success depends on her being a brilliant and eloquent spokesperson. She slips up, all peaceniks are &quot;batwings&quot; or whatever mean term the right is using for this event. Michael Shiavo spoke for the entire right to die camp. Andy Wharhol was right, and Mc Luhan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is a fascinating system we have where a one <del>woman</del>spectacle instantly becomes the &#8220;voice&#8221; of the ant-war movement and it&#8217;s success depends on her being a brilliant and eloquent spokesperson. She slips up, all peaceniks are &#8220;batwings&#8221; or whatever mean term the right is using for this event. Michael Shiavo spoke for the entire right to die camp. Andy Wharhol was right, and Mc Luhan.</p>
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		<title>By: Amardeep</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-91154</link>
		<dc:creator>Amardeep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-91154</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, people are now talking about Cindy Sheehan&#039;s taxes over at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110007119&amp;mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&amp;ojrss=frontpage&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wall Street Journal&lt;/a&gt;. 

So maybe this fake letter isn&#039;t fake after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Incidentally, people are now talking about Cindy Sheehan&#8217;s taxes over at the <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110007119&#038;mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&#038;ojrss=frontpage" rel="nofollow">Wall Street Journal</a>.</p>

	<p>So maybe this fake letter isn&#8217;t fake after all.</p>
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		<title>By: matt weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90589</link>
		<dc:creator>matt weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90589</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also not entirely sure about the Zelikow quote--I can&#039;t find any contemporary accounts of the speech it is said to come from.  I don&#039;t have any information about how trustworthy Inter Press Services is (like, I can&#039;t get the &#039;about&#039; page to work right now).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m also not entirely sure about the Zelikow quote&#8212;I can&#8217;t find any contemporary accounts of the speech it is said to come from.  I don&#8217;t have any information about how trustworthy Inter Press Services is (like, I can&#8217;t get the &#8216;about&#8217; page to work right now).</p>
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		<title>By: matt weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90581</link>
		<dc:creator>matt weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90581</guid>
		<description>Jet, 39 was genuinely classy.  Big ups.

Ted, good catch.  Isn&#039;t it nice to know we&#039;ll never hear that quote repeated again, unless someone finds a better source? (&lt;a href=&quot;http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/15/acd.01.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; a working link to the CNN transcript.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jet, 39 was genuinely classy.  Big ups.</p>

	<p>Ted, good catch.  Isn&#8217;t it nice to know we&#8217;ll never hear that quote repeated again, unless someone finds a better source? (<a href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/15/acd.01.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s</a> a working link to the <span class="caps">CNN</span> transcript.)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Totten</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90501</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Totten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90501</guid>
		<description>Ted,

Looks like you&#039;re right. I can&#039;t find a good source for that quote either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ted,</p>

	<p>Looks like you&#8217;re right. I can&#8217;t find a good source for that quote either.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90471</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90471</guid>
		<description>I have never found Google Groups to be wrong (since I use Yahoo groups).

But Ted&#039;s right.  A mother who&#039;s just lost her son in Iraq probably deserves more than a cruel game of telephone where every reporting blog adds something else &quot;evile&quot; that she&#039;s supposedly said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have never found Google Groups to be wrong (since I use Yahoo groups).</p>

	<p>But Ted&#8217;s right.  A mother who&#8217;s just lost her son in Iraq probably deserves more than a cruel game of telephone where every reporting blog adds something else &#8220;evile&#8221; that she&#8217;s supposedly said.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Slack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90463</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90463</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Almost the entire world, including most Israelis, say Israel should pull out of Gaza.&lt;/i&gt;

Almost the entire world is pretty much at that point with America and Iraq as well, come to think of it. It&#039;s not a fringe position.

&lt;i&gt;But the idea that the US fights wars for Israel is a fringe position.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, espoused by fringe nutjobs like &lt;a href=&quot;http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23083&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Phil Zelikow&lt;/a&gt;, who can&#039;t possibly have any insight into the internal working of the Bush White House.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Almost the entire world, including most Israelis, say Israel should pull out of Gaza.</i></p>

	<p>Almost the entire world is pretty much at that point with America and Iraq as well, come to think of it. It&#8217;s not a fringe position.</p>

	<p><i>But the idea that the US fights wars for Israel is a fringe position.</i></p>

	<p>Yes, espoused by fringe nutjobs like <a href="http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23083" rel="nofollow">Phil Zelikow</a>, who can&#8217;t possibly have any insight into the internal working of the Bush White House.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90446</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90446</guid>
		<description>Michael, if you want to make an argument that Sheehan has taken a position on Israel that you find wrong, offensive or distasteful, go for it. Don&#039;t pull this  &quot;Hehindeed, David Duke says so, too&quot; crap. 

Incidentally, when you do so, use a source that you can stand behind. I&#039;m going to save re-typing and quote myself:

***********************

Has anyone found a good source for the line about defending Israel? I started tracking back links. Half of them lead nowhere. Some lead to &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.baou.com/main.php?action=recent&amp;msg_recent=&amp;rid=20405&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OfficialWire&lt;/a&gt;, which is not a news service but a paid press release posting site. Some lead to Free Republic. And some lead to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://groups-beta.google.com/group/bullyard/msg/7f523b1a73be1a36?hl=en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google Groups post&lt;/a&gt; by someone named Tony Terch, who claims to be quoting a letter from Cindy Sheehan.

	&lt;a href=&quot;transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/15/acd.01.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;She has denied saying it.&lt;/a&gt;

	&lt;blockquote&gt;“COOPER:
You were also quoted as saying, “My son joined the Army to protect
America, not Israel. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of
Palestine and you’ll stop the terrorism.” How responsible do you
believe Israel is for the amount of terrorism in the world? SHEEHAN: I didn’t say that.

	COOPER: You didn’t say that? OK.

	SHEEHAN:
I didn’t—I didn’t say—I didn’t say that my son died for Israel. I’ve
never said that. I saw somebody wrote that and it wasn’t my words.
Those aren’t even words that I would say.

	I do believe that
the Palestinian issue is a hot issue that needs to be solved and it
needs to be more fair and equitable but I never said my son died for
Israel.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

	That doesn’t necessarily make it false, but it should cast some level of doubt.

	If there’s a better source than a second-hand quote from Google Groups, I’d be interested to hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael, if you want to make an argument that Sheehan has taken a position on Israel that you find wrong, offensive or distasteful, go for it. Don&#8217;t pull this  &#8220;Hehindeed, David Duke says so, too&#8221; crap.</p>

	<p>Incidentally, when you do so, use a source that you can stand behind. I&#8217;m going to save re-typing and quote myself:</p>

	<p>***********************</p>

	<p>Has anyone found a good source for the line about defending Israel? I started tracking back links. Half of them lead nowhere. Some lead to <a href="http://news.baou.com/main.php?action=recent&#038;msg_recent=&#038;rid=20405" rel="nofollow">OfficialWire</a>, which is not a news service but a paid press release posting site. Some lead to Free Republic. And some lead to a <a href="http://groups-beta.google.com/group/bullyard/msg/7f523b1a73be1a36?hl=en" rel="nofollow">Google Groups post</a> by someone named Tony Terch, who claims to be quoting a letter from Cindy Sheehan.</p>

	<p><a href="transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/15/acd.01.html" rel="nofollow">She has denied saying it.</a></p>

	<p><blockquote>&#8220;COOPER:<br />
You were also quoted as saying, &#8220;My son joined the Army to protect<br />
America, not Israel. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of<br />
Palestine and you&#8217;ll stop the terrorism.&#8221; How responsible do you<br />
believe Israel is for the amount of terrorism in the world? <span class="caps">SHEEHAN</span>: I didn&#8217;t say that.</blockquote></p>

	<p><span class="caps">COOPER</span>: You didn&#8217;t say that? OK.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">SHEEHAN</span>:<br />
I didn&#8217;t&#8212;I didn&#8217;t say&#8212;I didn&#8217;t say that my son died for Israel. I&#8217;ve<br />
never said that. I saw somebody wrote that and it wasn&#8217;t my words.<br />
Those aren&#8217;t even words that I would say.</p>

	<p>I do believe that<br />
the Palestinian issue is a hot issue that needs to be solved and it<br />
needs to be more fair and equitable but I never said my son died for<br />
Israel.&#8221;</p>

	<p>That doesn&#8217;t necessarily make it false, but it should cast some level of doubt.</p>

	<p>If there&#8217;s a better source than a second-hand quote from Google Groups, I&#8217;d be interested to hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Totten</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90431</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Totten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90431</guid>
		<description>Ted: &lt;i&gt;Today, you praise the decision of the Sharon government to pull out of Gaza. I’m not going to David Duke’s web page on my work computer, but I’d imagine that I could find David Duke encouraging Israel to pull out of Gaza. What does that say about you? Absolutely nothing, right?&lt;/i&gt;

It says nothing. Almost the entire world, including most Israelis, say Israel should pull out of Gaza. It&#039;s not a fringe position. But the idea that the US fights wars for Israel is a fringe position. 

I don&#039;t think Sheehan is anti-Semitic. I think she&#039;s a fool who is unaware that her words are loaded with baggage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ted: <i>Today, you praise the decision of the Sharon government to pull out of Gaza. I&#8217;m not going to David Duke&#8217;s web page on my work computer, but I&#8217;d imagine that I could find David Duke encouraging Israel to pull out of Gaza. What does that say about you? Absolutely nothing, right?</i></p>

	<p>It says nothing. Almost the entire world, including most Israelis, say Israel should pull out of Gaza. It&#8217;s not a fringe position. But the idea that the US fights wars for Israel is a fringe position.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t think Sheehan is anti-Semitic. I think she&#8217;s a fool who is unaware that her words are loaded with baggage.</p>
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		<title>By: saurabh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90380</link>
		<dc:creator>saurabh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90380</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the stupidest definition of &quot;anti-American&quot; I&#039;ve ever seen, by the way. Or, rather, it makes clear what a useless waste of breath the term is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That&#8217;s the stupidest definition of &#8220;anti-American&#8221; I&#8217;ve ever seen, by the way. Or, rather, it makes clear what a useless waste of breath the term is.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90373</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90373</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Michael (and I actually hope it’s not the real Michael, because this is an awful argument),&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, dear. Another reasonable, moderate, centrist prowar voice turns out to be a McCarthyite just below the surface. Color me shocked, shocked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Michael (and I actually hope it&#8217;s not the real Michael, because this is an awful argument),</i></p>

	<p>Oh, dear. Another reasonable, moderate, centrist prowar voice turns out to be a McCarthyite just below the surface. Color me shocked, shocked.</p>
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		<title>By: saurabh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90370</link>
		<dc:creator>saurabh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90370</guid>
		<description>abb1 - I tried taking your suggestion, but it keeps coming out as &quot;I LOVE BIG BROTHER&quot;. Is something wrong with my hands?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1 &#8211; I tried taking your suggestion, but it keeps coming out as &#8220;I <span class="caps">LOVE BIG BROTHER</span>&#8221;. Is something wrong with my hands?</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90341</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90341</guid>
		<description>Michael (and I actually hope it&#039;s not the real Michael, because this is an &lt;i&gt;awful&lt;/i&gt; argument),

Today, you praise the decision of the Sharon government to pull out of Gaza. I&#039;m not going to David Duke&#039;s web page on my work computer, but I&#039;d imagine that I could find David Duke encouraging Israel to pull out of Gaza. 

What does that say about you? Absolutely nothing, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael (and I actually hope it&#8217;s not the real Michael, because this is an <i>awful</i> argument),</p>

	<p>Today, you praise the decision of the Sharon government to pull out of Gaza. I&#8217;m not going to David Duke&#8217;s web page on my work computer, but I&#8217;d imagine that I could find David Duke encouraging Israel to pull out of Gaza.</p>

	<p>What does that say about you? Absolutely nothing, right?</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90334</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90334</guid>
		<description>The dictionary definition of Anti-American is too broad to make it meaning, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The dictionary definition of Anti-American is too broad to make it meaning, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Slack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/comment-page-1/#comment-90318</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/14/the-one-where-i-play-wonkette/#comment-90318</guid>
		<description>Addendum: Or maybe &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/15/233811/409&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; is the sort of anti-Americanism you&#039;re referring to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Addendum: Or maybe <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/15/233811/409" rel="nofollow">this</a> is the sort of anti-Americanism you&#8217;re referring to?</p>
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