Comments on: Six Feet of Water in the Streets of Evangeline http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:56:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Steve LaBonne http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94374 Steve LaBonne Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:59:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94374 Don't look now but the "bowl" is filling after all due to levee breaches and pump failures, just a little more slowly than a storm surge would have done. The situation in NO is truly apocalyptic. Don’t look now but the “bowl” is filling after all due to levee breaches and pump failures, just a little more slowly than a storm surge would have done. The situation in NO is truly apocalyptic.

]]> By: Gary http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94373 Gary Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:59:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94373 Re: 32, speaking of prize winning, unpleasant nut jobs, Hektor, pat yourself on the back. Re: 32, speaking of prize winning, unpleasant nut jobs, Hektor, pat yourself on the back.

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94362 Matt Weiner Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:25:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94362 Jet, I (as of this month) live in Texas actually, though not in either of those cities. So consider it a regional cheap shot. I would have named the city I live in, but it's fairly obscure and I might have been accused of special pleading. Jet, I (as of this month) live in Texas actually, though not in either of those cities. So consider it a regional cheap shot. I would have named the city I live in, but it’s fairly obscure and I might have been accused of special pleading.

]]> By: Jake McGuire http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94347 Jake McGuire Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:00:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94347 person - wooded swamps provide damping (i.e. they resist water flowing through them quickly) not blockage, like a levee. This is great when you have a gigantic surge of water over ten or fifteen minutes, but not so useful when the gigantic surge of water is spread over twelve hours, and not useful at all when the city is under sea level. person – wooded swamps provide damping (i.e. they resist water flowing through them quickly) not blockage, like a levee. This is great when you have a gigantic surge of water over ten or fifteen minutes, but not so useful when the gigantic surge of water is spread over twelve hours, and not useful at all when the city is under sea level.

]]> By: jami http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94345 jami Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:52:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94345 there's a blogger in trouble in new orleans. if anyone knows someone with a boat in new orleans, please comment here: http://www.ernietheattorney.net/ ...1.html#comments there’s a blogger in trouble in new orleans. if anyone knows someone with a boat in new orleans, please comment here:
http://www.ernietheattorney.net/ …1.html#comments

]]> By: Hektor Bim http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94334 Hektor Bim Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:02:24 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94334 Jet, People pick on Texas cities like Dallas and Houston because they are ugly and unpleasant, especially in the summertime. I've never seen so many religious nutjobs in one place as the time I flew into the Dallas airport. Jet,

People pick on Texas cities like Dallas and Houston because they are ugly and unpleasant, especially in the summertime. I’ve never seen so many religious nutjobs in one place as the time I flew into the Dallas airport.

]]> By: jet http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94329 jet Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:23:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94329 Why does everyone pick on Texas cities? If you want to pick on a Republican city, pick on Indianapolis. Per capita donations were the most lopsided of any city towards the Republicans in 2004. Poor Dallas and Houston at least have large Democrat minorities. Why does everyone pick on Texas cities? If you want to pick on a Republican city, pick on Indianapolis. Per capita donations were the most lopsided of any city towards the Republicans in 2004. Poor Dallas and Houston at least have large Democrat minorities.

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94043 Matt Weiner Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:27:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94043 y81, from accounts it seems as though the people most likely to drown if the bowl had been filled--the people who could not evacuate, because they didn't have cars or something--were not major property owners. And I would anyway say that it is a legitimate interest of the government to save a major city from destruction, even if it is not a national treasure. I would support federal funding to save Dallas or Houston from destruction if it were threatened. (One might be concerned about moral hazard here, but since the city already exists it's hard to see what to do about that.) I'm not sure about this, but isn't the problem with the levees that they divert water when water levels are normal? I don't see how raising an existing levee would make things worse. y81, from accounts it seems as though the people most likely to drown if the bowl had been filled—the people who could not evacuate, because they didn’t have cars or something—were not major property owners. And I would anyway say that it is a legitimate interest of the government to save a major city from destruction, even if it is not a national treasure. I would support federal funding to save Dallas or Houston from destruction if it were threatened. (One might be concerned about moral hazard here, but since the city already exists it’s hard to see what to do about that.)

I’m not sure about this, but isn’t the problem with the levees that they divert water when water levels are normal? I don’t see how raising an existing levee would make things worse.

]]> By: Ramar http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94041 Ramar Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:21:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94041 <i>Why do people suggest that building up the New Orleans levees is a national responsibility?</i> Well, there are the thousands of people that could die if the levees failed. Why do people suggest that building up the New Orleans levees is a national responsibility?

Well, there are the thousands of people that could die if the levees failed.

]]> By: person http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94040 person Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:19:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94040 <i>What precisely would you suggest be done? Move the whole city? The city is built in an unfortunate spot, and the river wants to inundate it, and then move farther to the west. There’s only so much the Army Corps of Engineers can do really.</i> Actually, one of the lessons of the recent tsunami in the Indian Ocean was that the places where mangrove forests hadn't been cut down for development right up to the beach did comparatively quite well. It's tempting to imagine bigger better levees, but a more realistic and cost-effective solution may simply be a land-use policy which recognizes the value of more wetlands and mangrove swamps. (In conjunction with the present levees, which are about as large as is reasonable.) This same benefit would apply to the entire Gulf Coast, btw. What precisely would you suggest be done? Move the whole city? The city is built in an unfortunate spot, and the river wants to inundate it, and then move farther to the west. There’s only so much the Army Corps of Engineers can do really.

Actually, one of the lessons of the recent tsunami in the Indian Ocean was that the places where mangrove forests hadn’t been cut down for development right up to the beach did comparatively quite well. It’s tempting to imagine bigger better levees, but a more realistic and cost-effective solution may simply be a land-use policy which recognizes the value of more wetlands and mangrove swamps. (In conjunction with the present levees, which are about as large as is reasonable.) This same benefit would apply to the entire Gulf Coast, btw.

]]> By: Steve LaBonne http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94037 Steve LaBonne Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:51:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94037 I know N.O is not nearly in the same category in historical or aesthetic importance- but if you were Italian would you say the same about Venice? I know N.O is not nearly in the same category in historical or aesthetic importance- but if you were Italian would you say the same about Venice?

]]> By: y81 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94034 y81 Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:22:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94034 Why do people suggest that building up the New Orleans levees is a national responsibility? It would seem the costs of such an effort would properly be borne by New Orleans property owners. I mean, New Orleans may be a national treasure, but when you go there, the hotels, nightclubs, restaurants etc. all charge you money to enjoy the national treasure. Why do people suggest that building up the New Orleans levees is a national responsibility? It would seem the costs of such an effort would properly be borne by New Orleans property owners. I mean, New Orleans may be a national treasure, but when you go there, the hotels, nightclubs, restaurants etc. all charge you money to enjoy the national treasure.

]]> By: Steve LaBonne http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94022 Steve LaBonne Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:21:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94022 Thank goodness, New Orleans appears to have been spared the worst, though the damage will still be plenty bad. But surely it's now time to get serious about protecting the city from monster storm surges in the future. Tropical storm activity in the Atlantic appears to be increasing each season, and sooner or later one of these big storms won't miss. Thank goodness, New Orleans appears to have been spared the worst, though the damage will still be plenty bad. But surely it’s now time to get serious about protecting the city from monster storm surges in the future. Tropical storm activity in the Atlantic appears to be increasing each season, and sooner or later one of these big storms won’t miss.

]]> By: d. j. wolf http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94020 d. j. wolf Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:43:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94020 It is likely that a lot of uninsured property owners will be walking away from mortgaged properties. Are there any estimates out there of the amount of mortgaged properties on which banks can be expected to foreclose? What effect would such a foreclosure wave have on the national mortgage bubble? It is likely that a lot of uninsured property owners will be walking away from mortgaged properties. Are there any estimates out there of the amount of mortgaged properties on which banks can be expected to foreclose? What effect would such a foreclosure wave have on the national mortgage bubble?

]]> By: Steve LaBonne http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/comment-page-1/#comment-94011 Steve LaBonne Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:53:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/28/six-feet-of-water-in-the-streets-of-evangeline/#comment-94011 Perhaps the river levees should never have been constructed; it's a bit late to have that debate now, unless tomorrow there is no longer a New Orleans to protect. (Even then, there is still a massive levee system south of the city protecting things like oil refineries, and it's not about to be dismantled any time soon.) But I'm talking about the Lake Ponchartrain levee, which AFAIK does not contribute to wetland erosion. That's the one which is not as high as it should be, leaving open the horrible possibility of "filling the bowl". Perhaps the river levees should never have been constructed; it’s a bit late to have that debate now, unless tomorrow there is no longer a New Orleans to protect. (Even then, there is still a massive levee system south of the city protecting things like oil refineries, and it’s not about to be dismantled any time soon.) But I’m talking about the Lake Ponchartrain levee, which AFAIK does not contribute to wetland erosion. That’s the one which is not as high as it should be, leaving open the horrible possibility of “filling the bowl”.

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