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	<title>Comments on: Just On The Other Side</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-95309</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 08:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-95309</guid>
		<description>ABB1 &gt;&gt; I guess, what I am trying to say here is that to me at this point in time evil Stalinists seem about as dangerous as evil Martians.

North Korea springs to mind, and Karamov certainly meets the requirements in irrationality and paranoia and brutality.

&gt;&gt; Jet, stay away from Garofalo’s vagina dentata, you little pillock.

At least the young &#039;uns are laughing #with# me, as opposed to screaming and running away in terror.

RAGOUT &gt;&gt; Although the WWP and RCP are fringe groups, they ended up playing a major role in the US anti-war movement. The United for Peace and Justice coalition was set up specifically as a non-communist alternative.

A good comparison can be made to that which happened in Leftpondia with certain creepy sub-Leninist sects.  I could just about appreciate how the anti-war protest could be expanded to encompass the Palestinian issue, but it befuddlefied me completely how the fire-brigade strike was considered relevant; not to mention (in Scotland, at least) the Scot Nats. They&#039;re adept at waiting until a grassroots organization is set up, then sideling along to offer their &quot;help&quot;.  Then one will make a &quot;suggestion&quot; and lo!, there&#039;ll be a ready-made cabal of volunteers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">ABB1 </span>>> I guess, what I am trying to say here is that to me at this point in time evil Stalinists seem about as dangerous as evil Martians.</p>

	<p>North Korea springs to mind, and Karamov certainly meets the requirements in irrationality and paranoia and brutality.</p>

	<p>>> Jet, stay away from Garofalo&#8217;s vagina dentata, you little pillock.</p>

	<p>At least the young &#8216;uns are laughing #with# me, as opposed to screaming and running away in terror.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">RAGOUT </span>>> Although the <span class="caps">WWP</span> and <span class="caps">RCP</span> are fringe groups, they ended up playing a major role in the US anti-war movement. The United for Peace and Justice coalition was set up specifically as a non-communist alternative.</p>

	<p>A good comparison can be made to that which happened in Leftpondia with certain creepy sub-Leninist sects.  I could just about appreciate how the anti-war protest could be expanded to encompass the Palestinian issue, but it befuddlefied me completely how the fire-brigade strike was considered relevant; not to mention (in Scotland, at least) the Scot Nats. They&#8217;re adept at waiting until a grassroots organization is set up, then sideling along to offer their &#8220;help&#8221;.  Then one will make a &#8220;suggestion&#8221; and lo!, there&#8217;ll be a ready-made cabal of volunteers.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94740</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94740</guid>
		<description>And I can&#039;t read--Navigator had already made my point in comment 13.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And I can&#8217;t read&#8212;Navigator had already made my point in comment 13.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94739</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94739</guid>
		<description>Jet--I&#039;m not an engineer, I don&#039;t know how much the extra money would have done.  I absolutely agree about the commission, though I&#039;m not positive we&#039;ll get a good one (it took a lot of fuss to get the 9/11 commission itself).  

But underfunding the levees, on the evidence we have, isn&#039;t looking like a good decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jet&#8212;I&#8217;m not an engineer, I don&#8217;t know how much the extra money would have done.  I absolutely agree about the commission, though I&#8217;m not positive we&#8217;ll get a good one (it took a lot of fuss to get the 9/11 commission itself).</p>

	<p>But underfunding the levees, on the evidence we have, isn&#8217;t looking like a good decision.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94731</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94731</guid>
		<description>Ragout, it&#039;s hard for me to imagine more than a handful of hard-core stalinists among all those people who come out to protest with ANSWER and other left-wing organizations. And it&#039;s only natural that when moderates fail to lead, radicals will fill the gap; there&#039;s nothing wrong with that (or unusual). And who cares if they see the anti-war movement as way to get resources, the movement has its own dynamics, as, for example, with this Sheehan woman. 

Also, they may be supporting N.Korea as an entity confronting Western imperialism, but are they really working to install N.Korea-style regime in the US? Probably not. Well, what about reputable media organizations like FoxNews and MNBC who routinely give voice to all kinds of equivalent right-wing extremists who actually &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; trying to implement their fascist ideas, and often succeed? 

I guess, what I am trying to say here is that to me at this point in time evil Stalinists seem about as dangerous as evil Martians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ragout, it&#8217;s hard for me to imagine more than a handful of hard-core stalinists among all those people who come out to protest with <span class="caps">ANSWER</span> and other left-wing organizations. And it&#8217;s only natural that when moderates fail to lead, radicals will fill the gap; there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that (or unusual). And who cares if they see the anti-war movement as way to get resources, the movement has its own dynamics, as, for example, with this Sheehan woman.</p>

	<p>Also, they may be supporting N.Korea as an entity confronting Western imperialism, but are they really working to install N.Korea-style regime in the US? Probably not. Well, what about reputable media organizations like FoxNews and <span class="caps">MNBC</span> who routinely give voice to all kinds of equivalent right-wing extremists who actually <i>are</i> trying to implement their fascist ideas, and often succeed?</p>

	<p>I guess, what I am trying to say here is that to me at this point in time evil Stalinists seem about as dangerous as evil Martians.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragout</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94723</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94723</guid>
		<description>Abb1, the problem with the sectarian communist parties is that they have awful views and awful methods.  Just their support for Saddam and North Korea (by the Workers World Party) and the Shining Path (by the Revolutionary Communist Party) ought to be enough to cause decent people to shun them.  

Protests organized by these guys have speakers spouting &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000774.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;noxious views&lt;/a&gt;, like the charge that Israel organized the attacks on 9/11 and warned Jews ahead of time.  In general, they see the anti-war movement (or whatever issue they hijack) as  way to get resources and recruits for their organizations, rather than actually caring anything about the issue.  You might want to read something about the destruction of SDS in the 1960s at the hands of these kind of sectarian groups.

Although the WWP and RCP are fringe groups, they ended up playing a major role in the US anti-war movement.  The United for Peace and Justice coalition was set up specifically as a non-communist alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1, the problem with the sectarian communist parties is that they have awful views and awful methods.  Just their support for Saddam and North Korea (by the Workers World Party) and the Shining Path (by the Revolutionary Communist Party) ought to be enough to cause decent people to shun them.</p>

	<p>Protests organized by these guys have speakers spouting <a href="http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000774.shtml" rel="nofollow">noxious views</a>, like the charge that Israel organized the attacks on 9/11 and warned Jews ahead of time.  In general, they see the anti-war movement (or whatever issue they hijack) as  way to get resources and recruits for their organizations, rather than actually caring anything about the issue.  You might want to read something about the destruction of <span class="caps">SDS</span> in the 1960s at the hands of these kind of sectarian groups.</p>

	<p>Although the <span class="caps">WWP</span> and <span class="caps">RCP</span> are fringe groups, they ended up playing a major role in the US anti-war movement.  The United for Peace and Justice coalition was set up specifically as a non-communist alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94718</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94718</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Could someone name one left-wing American talking-head, please; that is not a liberal but anarchist, communist, maoist, trotskyist or at least a social-democrat who is to the left of Blair’s ‘Third-Way’.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t know if Barbara Ehrenreich gets enough air time to qualify as a talking head, but she is most emphatically a social democrat. But your point is well taken, abb1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Could someone name one left-wing American talking-head, please; that is not a liberal but anarchist, communist, maoist, trotskyist or at least a social-democrat who is to the left of Blair&#8217;s &#8216;Third-Way&#8217;.</i></p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know if Barbara Ehrenreich gets enough air time to qualify as a talking head, but she is most emphatically a social democrat. But your point is well taken, abb1.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94716</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94716</guid>
		<description>Matt Weiner -- according to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&amp;articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&amp;pageNumber=1&amp;catID=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; (via &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.metafilter.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MeFi&lt;/a&gt;) the threat posed by a hurricaine was already being discussed in 2001.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Matt Weiner&#8212;according to <a href="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&#038;articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&#038;pageNumber=1&#038;catID=2" rel="nofollow">this article</a> (via <a href="http://www.metafilter.com" rel="nofollow">MeFi</a>) the threat posed by a hurricaine was already being discussed in 2001.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94715</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94715</guid>
		<description>The communists come out against the war - good for them, they&#039;re on the right side of this one. Along with conservatives like Pat Buchanan, libertarians like Ron Paul and liberals like ...uh... OK, Howard Dean, for example. 

What seems to be the problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The communists come out against the war &#8211; good for them, they&#8217;re on the right side of this one. Along with conservatives like Pat Buchanan, libertarians like Ron Paul and liberals like &#8230;uh&#8230; OK, Howard Dean, for example.</p>

	<p>What seems to be the problem?</p>
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		<title>By: Ragout</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94707</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 07:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94707</guid>
		<description>Uh, isn&#039;t Tierney&#039;s claim about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000710.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ANSWER being a communist front&lt;/a&gt; just unarguably correct?  I&#039;d guess he&#039;s right about Not In Our Name too.

Of course, saying that MoveOn and United for Peace and Justice are run by communists is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Uh, isn&#8217;t Tierney&#8217;s claim about <a href="http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000710.shtml" rel="nofollow"><span class="caps">ANSWER</span> being a communist front</a> just unarguably correct?  I&#8217;d guess he&#8217;s right about Not In Our Name too.</p>

	<p>Of course, saying that MoveOn and United for Peace and Justice are run by communists is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: okthen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94699</link>
		<dc:creator>okthen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 03:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94699</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Red-baiting is so old fashioned. It’s so 1950s. &lt;/i&gt;

But Nazism and fascism is eternally relevant, no? I think Communism occupies a position in the righty firmament similar to that which Nazism occupies on this blog -- a murderous, incomparable evil that must be memorialized and denounced so as not to repeat it. 

Having close relatives who&#039;ve escaped Communism, I tend to agree with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> Red-baiting is so old fashioned. It&#8217;s so 1950s. </i></p>

	<p>But Nazism and fascism is eternally relevant, no? I think Communism occupies a position in the righty firmament similar to that which Nazism occupies on this blog&#8212;a murderous, incomparable evil that must be memorialized and denounced so as not to repeat it.</p>

	<p>Having close relatives who&#8217;ve escaped Communism, I tend to agree with them.</p>
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		<title>By: a different chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94573</link>
		<dc:creator>a different chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94573</guid>
		<description>&gt; It would take crass stupidity, and momumental levels of dogma to skimp on… oh, wait…

Hey, I think we&#039;ve got a winner in the &quot;What The Hell Do We Title The History Of the Bush Years&quot; book naming contest:

&quot;Crass Stupidity and Monumental Levels Of Dogma&quot;

Yup, works for me.  Your reward will be seeing civilization last long enough to publish it.  If it doesn&#039;t, well, no book no reward, which I think is fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> It would take crass stupidity, and momumental levels of dogma to skimp on&#8230; oh, wait&#8230;</p>

	<p>Hey, I think we&#8217;ve got a winner in the &#8220;What The Hell Do We Title The History Of the Bush Years&#8221; book naming contest:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Crass Stupidity and Monumental Levels Of Dogma&#8221;</p>

	<p>Yup, works for me.  Your reward will be seeing civilization last long enough to publish it.  If it doesn&#8217;t, well, no book no reward, which I think is fair.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94568</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94568</guid>
		<description>Abb1, I fear no dentata and would gladly brave them to be near Garofalo&#039;s vagina.  She is the r0x0rz (while being a bit politically unpalatable).

And I have to wonder what exactly 60 million in New Orleans would have bought you.  Given that a foot of highway can often cost a million dollars, I seriously doubt that 60 million would have made the levies into SuperLevies&#174;.  Either way we can only hope their is something akin to the 9/11 commission to figure out why this happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1, I fear no dentata and would gladly brave them to be near Garofalo&#8217;s vagina.  She is the r0&#215;0rz (while being a bit politically unpalatable).</p>

	<p>And I have to wonder what exactly 60 million in New Orleans would have bought you.  Given that a foot of highway can often cost a million dollars, I seriously doubt that 60 million would have made the levies into SuperLevies&#174;.  Either way we can only hope their is something akin to the 9/11 commission to figure out why this happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94562</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94562</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; “I’d never send my son there! It’s a dumb war!” Oh, your son went there because Bush lied about the reasons for the war, and he died, and now you’re mad? You’re obviously a communist! Anyone who protests the war isn’t anti-war, but anti-American!

I had to go back a re-read the piece because, although I remember the quote, still I could not trust myself.  Oh, lord, how I&#039;d like to strip Tiernan naked and rub him up and down with steel-wool.  Then slap the sore bits.,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>>> &#8220;I&#8217;d never send my son there! It&#8217;s a dumb war!&#8221; Oh, your son went there because Bush lied about the reasons for the war, and he died, and now you&#8217;re mad? You&#8217;re obviously a communist! Anyone who protests the war isn&#8217;t anti-war, but anti-American!</p>

	<p>I had to go back a re-read the piece because, although I remember the quote, still I could not trust myself.  Oh, lord, how I&#8217;d like to strip Tiernan naked and rub him up and down with steel-wool.  Then slap the sore bits.,</p>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94561</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94561</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; So, $50 million rather than 12, and this is a case of hindsight as 20/20. But there’s a serious case that Bush skimped on necessary hurricane-safety measures because of the Iraq war.

Talk of the sheer scale of military spending is always going to be beyond the comprehension of many people; confusing millions with billions, not even knowing if a billion is 1,000,000,000 or 1,000,000,000,000; but a mere 50 million?  That&#039;s a pitance.  It would take crass stupidity, and momumental levels of dogma to skimp on... oh, wait...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>>> So, $50 million rather than 12, and this is a case of hindsight as 20/20. But there&#8217;s a serious case that Bush skimped on necessary hurricane-safety measures because of the Iraq war.</p>

	<p>Talk of the sheer scale of military spending is always going to be beyond the comprehension of many people; confusing millions with billions, not even knowing if a billion is 1,000,000,000 or 1,000,000,000,000; but a mere 50 million?  That&#8217;s a pitance.  It would take crass stupidity, and momumental levels of dogma to skimp on&#8230; oh, wait&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/comment-page-1/#comment-94560</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/08/31/just-on-the-other-side/#comment-94560</guid>
		<description>Jet, stay away from Garofalo&#039;s vagina dentata, you little pillock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jet, stay away from Garofalo&#8217;s vagina dentata, you little pillock.</p>
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