Dale

regards

Dale

I don’t run mugabe or zimbabwe, and trying to duck my point, or dismiss it on those grounds is a crude argument ad hominem, as well as being cheap.

i work in development aid in sub-saharan africa, so i’m familiar with the scenario of disaster recovery and the deployment of aid.

i am also capable of distinguishing between the government and the citizenry, something that you seem unable to do. if i were to conflate them, i might say:

being lectured by someone from america while the government of that country decimates afghanistan and iraq, actively campiagns for the destruction of the elected government of venezuela, and washes its hands of its dying poor in new orleans, is a little rich.

my point stands: your government fails you in its most basic responsibility, internally, now, as well as externally – that of protecting citizens from harm – and you just stand by. that’s your business, but don’t think anyone anywhere else buys the idea that it’s a meaningful position you take. you bought a lemon.

as for the fundamental corruption of government: i think we agree. though, i think you assume, extrapolating from your experience (US), that corruption’s a necessity, and therefore need not be noted. if that’s true, that’s it’s a triumph of your system that you think so.

This strikes me the same way that people ranting about the salaries of the president and congress do: it is focusing on a tiny tree instead of a large forest. Government is all about corruption. Guys with guns (er, the power to tax) take stuff from some people and give it to other people, usually under the pretense that it in some way aids the other people. Low salaries for elected officials or sour looks when they take a day off is not going to change the fundamentals of the system and, indeed, serves mainly to distract attention from them. It is trivia compared to the fundamental corruption that defines the system, even in relatively well run systems like that in the US (and not like that in Louisiana).

Plus being lectured by someone from South Africa, which is standing by while Mugabe decimates his country, is a bit rich even for the comments section on a blog.

Jeff

now in america a city goes bang and you’re debating the appropriate manner in which to reply to conservatives?

you should be asking how come your country left its citizens to find their own way out. let me repeat that…the extent of your evacuation plan was to set a date and tell people. What was the expanded plan? to encourage them to book early?

don’t you get it? your government, republican, democrat, whatever, currently ranks you below mozambique as far as spending on you is concerned. that would worry me.

Looting is, lets just say, hardly the biggest concern right now.

Irma Thomas is unaccounted for, too. The Nevilles are all safe, but their houses, everything, is gone.

Since I doubt that the people waiting to be resuced are the actual people shooting at helicopters and cops, I’m not sure who “they” refers to here.

Jet says: “the looting will leave most people with an extremely poor view of those who were left in NO.

Well, maybe. But doesn’t that take some tendency to see everyone who looks a certain way as part of the same “group”. How does “looters”=”people needing to be rescued”? Is this some kind of statement of collective punishment for those who can’t keep others from their race under control (i.e., not looting)?

“Anyone trying to explain this away by using the word “class” is going to be completely ignored…You just can’t get around the fact that the “class” of people left in NO is now without ANY police search and rescue because the [...] gangs of looters.

What does the fact that rescue operations were hindered because of security and looting concerns have to do with believing that disasters might have a social component? If you’re saying that poor people might be less likely to be rescued b/c of security concerns in their neighborhoods, I guess that’s a fair point. But there could also be differential effects across poor/rich neighborhoods from the original flooding, due to infrastructure owing to political power differences. It’s kinda pointing out that people lives “aren’t” equal. Impossible to rectify completely, but perhaps troubling to some, in a democracy.

Who knows how many cops and soldiers will be killed outright by the lawlessness. And who knows how many more civilians will die because the cops and army are busy dealing with the looters

If lefties’ first thoughts, right after a disaster, were, “look how this screws the poor, it’s not fair,” I’d say that’s a odd perspective. An academic studying the second and third order, differential effects due to socio/economic factors, seems a different phenomena. Just as a rightie emphasizing looting by undesireables in the face of a disaster killing hundreds also seems an odd choice of emphasis. The reason New Orleasns is fucked is not because of lawlessness hindering rescuers.

Over the past two days looting in NO has periodically gotten so bad and so violent that it forced the authorities to temporarily suspend search and rescue work because rescue workers were in danger. Earlier today a gang of looters starting shooting at a rescue helicopter. As a result of these delays, it is highly likely that people died. Poor black people. Elderly people. Children. Policemen have been shot by looters. National Guardsmen have been shot by looters. The fact that looting is occuring is almost certainly causing many people – who are overwhelmingly poor – to stay in their homes rather than evacuate because they are scared that their homes will be looted. There have been incidents of looting at hospitals – where armed gangs have stolen medicine and critical supplies. As a result, patients have suffered and some will probably die.

But hey, I guess its OK for all those people – all those poor black people – to die and suffer so we can Stick It To The Man™.

“McClellan: I think you heard from the president earlier today about his zero tolerance. We understand the need for food and water and supplies of that nature. That’s why we have a massive effort underway to continue getting food and water and ice to those who are in need. There are ways for them to get that help. Looting is not the way for them to do it.”

In other words, people should hope that the authorities can bring them food and water, and if not, then they should drop dead rather than violate Wal-Mart’s sacred Property Rights™.

Fuck Republicans.

You never know, Bush might just get a much needed boost in the polls out of this. Wouldn’t surprise me. And then anything that happens with the economy and gas prices now is not his failt, of course.