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	<title>Comments on: Red Cross not Allowed into New Orleans</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Positive Liberty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Our Wise Central Planners at Work</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95638</link>
		<dc:creator>Positive Liberty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Our Wise Central Planners at Work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 14:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95638</guid>
		<description>[...] The Red Cross is not being allowed into New Orleans. As Jon Mandle of Crooked Timber writes, I am (once again) speechless – and literally trembling. How is it even conceivable that someone would think that relief operations would keep victims there – and that depriving them of emergency food and water would be the the extra little nudge that would convince them to get out? If this were Sudan, perhaps, emergency food and water would convince everyone to stay put. But here? Please. These are Americans, and they all know perfectly well that things will be better for them in any other American city than New Orleans. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] The Red Cross is not being allowed into New Orleans. As Jon Mandle of Crooked Timber writes, I am (once again) speechless &#8211; and literally trembling. How is it even conceivable that someone would think that relief operations would keep victims there &#8211; and that depriving them of emergency food and water would be the the extra little nudge that would convince them to get out? If this were Sudan, perhaps, emergency food and water would convince everyone to stay put. But here? Please. These are Americans, and they all know perfectly well that things will be better for them in any other American city than New Orleans. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jaded</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95565</link>
		<dc:creator>jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95565</guid>
		<description>I never thought I would find myself donating money to the richest nation on earth. What prompted me to do so was the observation that the US does not look after its poor very well under Republican administrations. At the time I was not aware of just how low the standard of that care could get - keeping relief from desperate refugees for strategic reasons. The sad thing is that I gave my money to the Red Cross. It won&#039;t be wasted of course, because there is a huge job to be done supporting the refugees who have managed to escape New Orleans in spite of government &quot;help&quot;, and the Red Cross will be there to help, but I actually hoped it would go to the worst cases. Oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I never thought I would find myself donating money to the richest nation on earth. What prompted me to do so was the observation that the US does not look after its poor very well under Republican administrations. At the time I was not aware of just how low the standard of that care could get &#8211; keeping relief from desperate refugees for strategic reasons. The sad thing is that I gave my money to the Red Cross. It won&#8217;t be wasted of course, because there is a huge job to be done supporting the refugees who have managed to escape New Orleans in spite of government &#8220;help&#8221;, and the Red Cross will be there to help, but I actually hoped it would go to the worst cases. Oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: bob mcmanus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95559</link>
		<dc:creator>bob mcmanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95559</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thousands of people are trapped on a bridge in Metairie&quot;

Okay, any lawyer capable of looking at a hypothetical?

 Official A in charge of security gives to orders to have troops confine them to the bridge;

 official B in charge of relief prevents food or water from getting to them, and/or sends it elsewhere, claiming he didn&#039;t know, oh, that there was anybody at the convention center;

official C in charge of evacuations claims the same as B, nobody told him there were people on the bridge. Under ICS, as discussed at Pat &amp; Teresa Hayden&#039;s, these three officials do not talk to each other, but only to Brown.

And so some or all of the people die.

Is there any legal responsibility?

(I suppose you need a D, in charge of determining where people are, and passing that info to Brown)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Thousands of people are trapped on a bridge in Metairie&#8221;</p>

	<p>Okay, any lawyer capable of looking at a hypothetical?</p>

	<p>Official A in charge of security gives to orders to have troops confine them to the bridge;</p>

	<p>official B in charge of relief prevents food or water from getting to them, and/or sends it elsewhere, claiming he didn&#8217;t know, oh, that there was anybody at the convention center;</p>

	<p>official C in charge of evacuations claims the same as B, nobody told him there were people on the bridge. Under <span class="caps">ICS</span>, as discussed at Pat &#038; Teresa Hayden&#8217;s, these three officials do not talk to each other, but only to Brown.</p>

	<p>And so some or all of the people die.</p>

	<p>Is there any legal responsibility?</p>

	<p>(I suppose you need a D, in charge of determining where people are, and passing that info to Brown)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Otsuka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95558</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Otsuka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95558</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to add the following to my comment #4 above: Even if the Red Cross is being prevented from returning to New Orleans in order to keep the routes open for people to be evacuated (rather than disgustingly in order to starve and dehydrate people to force them to leave -- as if they don&#039;t already have enough motive to leave a hellhole that stinks of human feces and rotting flesh), the government&#039;s lack of response to this disaster has been a scandal of the highest order. That much is obvious even on the most charitable interpretation of the Red Cross&#039;s ban.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d like to add the following to my comment #4 above: Even if the Red Cross is being prevented from returning to New Orleans in order to keep the routes open for people to be evacuated (rather than disgustingly in order to starve and dehydrate people to force them to leave&#8212;as if they don&#8217;t already have enough motive to leave a hellhole that stinks of human feces and rotting flesh), the government&#8217;s lack of response to this disaster has been a scandal of the highest order. That much is obvious even on the most charitable interpretation of the Red Cross&#8217;s ban.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95553</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95553</guid>
		<description>Welcome to the kleptocratic third-world craphole that used to be known as the United States of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Welcome to the kleptocratic third-world craphole that used to be known as the United States of America.</p>
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		<title>By: derek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95552</link>
		<dc:creator>derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95552</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How is it even conceivable that someone would think that relief operations would keep victims there – and that depriving them of emergency food and water would be the the extra little nudge that would convince them to get out?&lt;/i&gt;

Is this a rhetorical question?  It&#039;s perfectly conceivable that Republicans would think that; why, it&#039;s been at the heart of their social security philosophy since Reagan&#039;s &quot;welfare cadillac&quot; days at the least.  Why shouldn&#039;t it be at the heart of their homeland security philosophy too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>How is it even conceivable that someone would think that relief operations would keep victims there &#8211; and that depriving them of emergency food and water would be the the extra little nudge that would convince them to get out?</i></p>

	<p>Is this a rhetorical question?  It&#8217;s perfectly conceivable that Republicans would think that; why, it&#8217;s been at the heart of their social security philosophy since Reagan&#8217;s &#8220;welfare cadillac&#8221; days at the least.  Why shouldn&#8217;t it be at the heart of their homeland security philosophy too?</p>
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		<title>By: fortasse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95551</link>
		<dc:creator>fortasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95551</guid>
		<description>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/how-much-is-too-much_b_6711.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/how-much-is-too-much_b_6711.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/how-much-is-too-much_b_6711.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: fortasse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95549</link>
		<dc:creator>fortasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95549</guid>
		<description>I thought about donating to the Red Cross, but now I think I may donate to one of the organizations listed in the comments here.  This article on the Red Cross certainly got me to thinking...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/how-much-is-too-much_b_6711.html&quot; title=&quot;thinking...&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I thought about donating to the Red Cross, but now I think I may donate to one of the organizations listed in the comments here.  This article on the Red Cross certainly got me to thinking&#8230;<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-walden/how-much-is-too-much_b_6711.html" title="thinking..." rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95542</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95542</guid>
		<description>This is stunning.  Never I thought I could feel more intense opprobrium towards Bush.  Whatever disgusting and repugnant acts he approved abroad, he still believed them to be for the good of the &quot;folks&quot; at home.  Now even this tiny mist of sympathy for him has been burnt off by treating the refugees as demographic irritants.  This ain&#039;t &quot;tough love&quot;.  This is the same revolting, twisted theory which would destroy a village to save it (not that that creature was ever in a position where he had to destroy said village).

I loath the man.  I was chilled when I saw his being barely able to raise concern for that which was happening; I was filled with contempt when, standing beside daddy, he couldn&#039;t tell the difference between &quot;coaches&quot; and &quot;coast&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is stunning.  Never I thought I could feel more intense opprobrium towards Bush.  Whatever disgusting and repugnant acts he approved abroad, he still believed them to be for the good of the &#8220;folks&#8221; at home.  Now even this tiny mist of sympathy for him has been burnt off by treating the refugees as demographic irritants.  This ain&#8217;t &#8220;tough love&#8221;.  This is the same revolting, twisted theory which would destroy a village to save it (not that that creature was ever in a position where he had to destroy said village).</p>

	<p>I loath the man.  I was chilled when I saw his being barely able to raise concern for that which was happening; I was filled with contempt when, standing beside daddy, he couldn&#8217;t tell the difference between &#8220;coaches&#8221; and &#8220;coast&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Yarrow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95539</link>
		<dc:creator>Yarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95539</guid>
		<description>Food Not Bombs is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foodnotbombs.net/katrina.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sending food&lt;/a&gt; (and volunteers). You can &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.paypal.com/cart/add=1&amp;business=foodnotbombs%40earthlink.net&amp;item_name=Dollar+for+Peace&amp;amount=1.00&amp;return=http%3A//www.foodnotbombs.net/thankyou.html&amp;cancel_return=http%3A//foodnotbombs.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;contribute here&lt;/a&gt;.

They &lt;b&gt;are&lt;/b&gt; anarchists, which may bother some people. In my experience they&#039;re very well organized anarchists, and they are certainly less likely to stay out of town on FEMA&#039;s orders.

Their next bus is leaving in a few days.  I certainly hope that in a few days New Orleans will either be deserted or decently fed; but if not, I&#039;m betting my dollar will go farther with Food Not Bombs than the Red Cross.  As soon as I found out the Red Cross was banned and FNB was going in, I made a contribution to FNB in the same amount I had made to the Red Cross.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Food Not Bombs is <a href="http://www.foodnotbombs.net/katrina.html" rel="nofollow">sending food</a> (and volunteers). You can <a href="https://www.paypal.com/cart/add=1&#038;business=foodnotbombs%40earthlink.net&#038;item_name=Dollar+for+Peace&#038;amount=1.00&#038;return=http%3A//www.foodnotbombs.net/thankyou.html&#038;cancel_return=http%3A//foodnotbombs.net" rel="nofollow">contribute here</a>.</p>

	<p>They <b>are</b> anarchists, which may bother some people. In my experience they&#8217;re very well organized anarchists, and they are certainly less likely to stay out of town on <span class="caps">FEMA</span>&#8217;s orders.</p>

	<p>Their next bus is leaving in a few days.  I certainly hope that in a few days New Orleans will either be deserted or decently fed; but if not, I&#8217;m betting my dollar will go farther with Food Not Bombs than the Red Cross.  As soon as I found out the Red Cross was banned and <span class="caps">FNB</span> was going in, I made a contribution to <span class="caps">FNB</span> in the same amount I had made to the Red Cross.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95538</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95538</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you know?  It&#039;s just like welfare.  &lt;i&gt;Everyone&lt;/i&gt; migrates to where the handouts are!

You can&#039;t see my tongue in my cheek, but believe me it&#039;s there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t you know?  It&#8217;s just like welfare.  <i>Everyone</i> migrates to where the handouts are!</p>

	<p>You can&#8217;t see my tongue in my cheek, but believe me it&#8217;s there.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95537</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95537</guid>
		<description>Well, they&#039;re right that if you don&#039;t send food in, one way or another there won&#039;t be anyone in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, they&#8217;re right that if you don&#8217;t send food in, one way or another there won&#8217;t be anyone in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95535</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95535</guid>
		<description>We get the point!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>We get the point!</p>
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		<title>By: Martha Bridegam</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95531</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Bridegam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95531</guid>
		<description>The NAACP is working with MoveOn, black churches, black-owned hotels, and others. They are accepting donations. See http://www.naacp.org/  and http://www.naacp.org/news/2005/2005-09-03.html .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The <span class="caps">NAACP</span> is working with MoveOn, black churches, black-owned hotels, and others. They are accepting donations. See <a href="http://www.naacp.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.naacp.org/</a>  and <a href="http://www.naacp.org/news/2005/2005-09-03.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.naacp.org/news/2005/2005-09-03.html</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: Procrastinator</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/03/red-cross-not-allowed-into-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-95528</link>
		<dc:creator>Procrastinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3747#comment-95528</guid>
		<description>If Jon is trembling now, he&#039;ll be positively catatonic when combat troops arrive from Iraq.  They have been in battle, and they will shoot.  Y&#039;alls a cummin, boy, y&#039;alls a cummin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If Jon is trembling now, he&#8217;ll be positively catatonic when combat troops arrive from Iraq.  They have been in battle, and they will shoot.  Y&#8217;alls a cummin, boy, y&#8217;alls a cummin.</p>
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