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	<title>Comments on: Myths about America</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Public Policy Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the politics of the New Orleans disaster</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-98928</link>
		<dc:creator>Public Policy Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the politics of the New Orleans disaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-98928</guid>
		<description>[...] I agree with Maria Farrell and others that the New Orleans disaster has displayed aspects of American life that are grievously wrong. People died because they couldn&#8217;t afford to leave the flooded city. The government failed to help them, just as it had failed to protect them in the first place. The ones left behind were mostly African American and poor. Until the water destroyed their homes, they had lived in one of America&#8217;s many ghettos: large, socially isolated areas of poverty and high crime, also marked by very poor municipal services, blighted buildings, and a lack of business investment. I don&#8217;t think there is anything quite comparable to an American ghetto elsewhere in the developed world. There are poor neighborhoods in Europe, often inhabited by people of color. But they are much smaller and less dangerous than the ghettos of the US. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] I agree with Maria Farrell and others that the New Orleans disaster has displayed aspects of American life that are grievously wrong. People died because they couldn&#8217;t afford to leave the flooded city. The government failed to help them, just as it had failed to protect them in the first place. The ones left behind were mostly African American and poor. Until the water destroyed their homes, they had lived in one of America&#8217;s many ghettos: large, socially isolated areas of poverty and high crime, also marked by very poor municipal services, blighted buildings, and a lack of business investment. I don&#8217;t think there is anything quite comparable to an American ghetto elsewhere in the developed world. There are poor neighborhoods in Europe, often inhabited by people of color. But they are much smaller and less dangerous than the ghettos of the US. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: titusonenine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Crooked Timber and Jane Galt on Katrina and America</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-98787</link>
		<dc:creator>titusonenine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Crooked Timber and Jane Galt on Katrina and America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-98787</guid>
		<description>[...] Blogger Crooked Timber writing in &#8220;Myths about America&#8221; says: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Blogger Crooked Timber writing in &#8220;Myths about America&#8221; says: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hispanic Pundit &#187;</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-98281</link>
		<dc:creator>Hispanic Pundit &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-98281</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Positive Liberty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; By What Strange Addiction&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-98247</link>
		<dc:creator>Positive Liberty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; By What Strange Addiction&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-98247</guid>
		<description>[...] And now we hear cries&#8211;of delight, or of resignation, as the case may be&#8211;that &#8220;the era of small government is over,&#8221; and that we had better turn to the government to protect us from any future disasters. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] And now we hear cries&#8211;of delight, or of resignation, as the case may be&#8211;that &#8220;the era of small government is over,&#8221; and that we had better turn to the government to protect us from any future disasters. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-98187</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-98187</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Looking for Some Reading?&lt;/strong&gt;

Are you looking for some reading? A polite discussion perhaps, a worthwhile to and fro about Katrina? Try this at Crooked Timber and then this and this at Asymmetrical Information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Looking for Some Reading?</strong></p>

	<p>Are you looking for some reading? A polite discussion perhaps, a worthwhile to and fro about Katrina? Try this at Crooked Timber and then this and this at Asymmetrical Information.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97891</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97891</guid>
		<description>So is maria arguing that the EU should slash gasoline taxes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So is maria arguing that the EU should slash gasoline taxes?</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Eastmond</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97889</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Eastmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97889</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s just that while in theory anyone can be a doctor or president, the reality is that you really only have a chance if your father was one too.&quot;

Like Bill Clinton (who didn&#039;t even have a father around)?  Or Ronald Reagan, whose father was a drunk?  

While the rags-to-riches idea may have its share of myth to it, the liberal myth of class inflexibility is even more seriously overstated.

I do not blame &quot;the poor&quot; for their poverty (as if it were possible to lump such a diverse group into one class!), but I have absolutely no problem stating the obvious -- that your chances of getting poor and staying poor go way up if you make a practice of ignoring what Kipling called &quot;the gods of the copybook headings&quot;, namely, basic common sense.  Having children without first committing to set up a stable household is stupid, and will keep you poor, for example.  (Ask my brother-in-law.)

That said, it does seem that the working and middle classes are starting to be squeezed -- by housing, education, and medical costs, which generally aren&#039;t counted fully in inflation estimates but sure as hell inflate the amount that gets taken from us.  

Although I&#039;m about as Republican as they come, the first Democrat who publicly states that the bubble in real estate is absolutely killing those of us who weren&#039;t lucky (or smart) enough to buy something -- anything -- four years ago will have my vote.  He or she can make abortion legal up to the twentieth trimester, declare everything that breathes an endangered species, turn the Marines into self-esteem therapists, and make gay marriage mandatory -- but if he ends the mortgage interest deduction for second homes, ends the 1031 tax-deferred exchange, and taxes speculation in real estate up the yin-yang, I&#039;ll vote for him in a heartbeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s just that while in theory anyone can be a doctor or president, the reality is that you really only have a chance if your father was one too.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Like Bill Clinton (who didn&#8217;t even have a father around)?  Or Ronald Reagan, whose father was a drunk?</p>

	<p>While the rags-to-riches idea may have its share of myth to it, the liberal myth of class inflexibility is even more seriously overstated.</p>

	<p>I do not blame &#8220;the poor&#8221; for their poverty (as if it were possible to lump such a diverse group into one class!), but I have absolutely no problem stating the obvious&#8212;that your chances of getting poor and staying poor go way up if you make a practice of ignoring what Kipling called &#8220;the gods of the copybook headings&#8221;, namely, basic common sense.  Having children without first committing to set up a stable household is stupid, and will keep you poor, for example.  (Ask my brother-in-law.)</p>

	<p>That said, it does seem that the working and middle classes are starting to be squeezed&#8212;by housing, education, and medical costs, which generally aren&#8217;t counted fully in inflation estimates but sure as hell inflate the amount that gets taken from us.</p>

	<p>Although I&#8217;m about as Republican as they come, the first Democrat who publicly states that the bubble in real estate is absolutely killing those of us who weren&#8217;t lucky (or smart) enough to buy something&#8212;anything&#8212;four years ago will have my vote.  He or she can make abortion legal up to the twentieth trimester, declare everything that breathes an endangered species, turn the Marines into self-esteem therapists, and make gay marriage mandatory&#8212;but if he ends the mortgage interest deduction for second homes, ends the 1031 tax-deferred exchange, and taxes speculation in real estate up the yin-yang, I&#8217;ll vote for him in a heartbeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Functional</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97881</link>
		<dc:creator>Functional</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97881</guid>
		<description>http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005447.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005447.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005447.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Functional</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97879</link>
		<dc:creator>Functional</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97879</guid>
		<description>It must be embarrassing for Maria to be so decisively taken down a notch by Jane Galt (aka Megan McArdle).  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005448.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005447.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It must be embarrassing for Maria to be so decisively taken down a notch by Jane Galt (aka Megan McArdle).  See <a href="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005448.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/005447.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: schiller</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97707</link>
		<dc:creator>schiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97707</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;in the contemporary US, people rarely speak German…

That’s true—they rarely do. Ever stop to consider why? (Dan Simon)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Otto was leaving aside the obvious point about US cultural literacy, Dan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>in the contemporary US, people rarely speak German&#8230;</blockquote></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s true&#8212;they rarely do. Ever stop to consider why? (Dan Simon)</p>

	<p>Otto was leaving aside the obvious point about US cultural literacy, Dan.</p>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Education, education, education?</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-97588</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Education, education, education?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-97588</guid>
		<description>[...] Maria&#8217;s post about America got me thinking about issues to do with social mobility. Here I want to offer some completely data free speculations, to float a hypothesis for commenters to shoot down if they want to. That hypothesis is that there&#8217;s far too much higher education in Western societies and that it constitutes a real barrier to social mobility (and is probably bad for demographics too). To put it in a nutshell: strategies for improving social mobility by getting a broader swathe of the population into higher ed are bound to fail because it is too easy for the middle classes to maintain their grip on access to education. A better strategy would be to take that card out of middle class hands by abandoning the insistence on credentials that aren&#8217;t materially relevant to the job at hand. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Maria&#8217;s post about America got me thinking about issues to do with social mobility. Here I want to offer some completely data free speculations, to float a hypothesis for commenters to shoot down if they want to. That hypothesis is that there&#8217;s far too much higher education in Western societies and that it constitutes a real barrier to social mobility (and is probably bad for demographics too). To put it in a nutshell: strategies for improving social mobility by getting a broader swathe of the population into higher ed are bound to fail because it is too easy for the middle classes to maintain their grip on access to education. A better strategy would be to take that card out of middle class hands by abandoning the insistence on credentials that aren&#8217;t materially relevant to the job at hand. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-96877</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-96877</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s sometimes hard to be sure just what the reality of the USA is, when you&#039;re a quarter-way around the world from New Orleans and your image of the USA is fed by Hollywood. But it seemed clear to me that a significant part of the original piece is about how the myth of America is incomplete. Exploiting the workers (and that includes the provision of medical care), and you can make stuff for less money. But now we see how we missed another element; cheap fuel.

Likewise the social mobility. It&#039;s not as easy as the old myth suggests, and it isn&#039;t as hard as the new mythology surrounding the Bush family would suggest, but whether it&#039;s college or White House, look at what you have to risk.

Somebody mentioned a Korean shopowner with a daughter at Harvard; just owning the shop is a huge step up from poverty. Somebody mentioned a peanut farmer who became President; it&#039;s a huge peanut farm, and President Carter qualified as a Nuclear Engineer in the Navy.

These things are myths in part because the story does get filtered. But some things are natural myths, the sorts of simplification which everyone had been doing for millenia. Other things are more deliberate. Whatever the reason, discovering a more complete truth can hurt.

Two months ago, in London, there were four terrorist bombs. There was, for a little while, chaos and confusion. Yes, it was on a far different scale, but we can still believe that our government can cope. The myth of London has been reinforced, not destroyed.

65 years ago, London was being bombed by the Germans. It&#039;s a city at the top of that short list of ballistic missile targets. You sort of expect London to be ready for things that go bang!

You have much the same sort of reason to expect the USA to be ready for hurricanes hitting the Gilf Coast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s sometimes hard to be sure just what the reality of the <span class="caps">USA</span> is, when you&#8217;re a quarter-way around the world from New Orleans and your image of the <span class="caps">USA</span> is fed by Hollywood. But it seemed clear to me that a significant part of the original piece is about how the myth of America is incomplete. Exploiting the workers (and that includes the provision of medical care), and you can make stuff for less money. But now we see how we missed another element; cheap fuel.</p>

	<p>Likewise the social mobility. It&#8217;s not as easy as the old myth suggests, and it isn&#8217;t as hard as the new mythology surrounding the Bush family would suggest, but whether it&#8217;s college or White House, look at what you have to risk.</p>

	<p>Somebody mentioned a Korean shopowner with a daughter at Harvard; just owning the shop is a huge step up from poverty. Somebody mentioned a peanut farmer who became President; it&#8217;s a huge peanut farm, and President Carter qualified as a Nuclear Engineer in the Navy.</p>

	<p>These things are myths in part because the story does get filtered. But some things are natural myths, the sorts of simplification which everyone had been doing for millenia. Other things are more deliberate. Whatever the reason, discovering a more complete truth can hurt.</p>

	<p>Two months ago, in London, there were four terrorist bombs. There was, for a little while, chaos and confusion. Yes, it was on a far different scale, but we can still believe that our government can cope. The myth of London has been reinforced, not destroyed.</p>

	<p>65 years ago, London was being bombed by the Germans. It&#8217;s a city at the top of that short list of ballistic missile targets. You sort of expect London to be ready for things that go bang!</p>

	<p>You have much the same sort of reason to expect the <span class="caps">USA</span> to be ready for hurricanes hitting the Gilf Coast.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-96865</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-96865</guid>
		<description>So, I go to to this small Mom and Pop place in the strip mall down the street from my apartment to grab some take-out after work.  Its just Mr. Lee and his wife that work there; sometimes his kids are in there, but most of the time not.  Mr. Lee is about 50, and came to the US from Korea with just the clothes on his back and no knowlege of English shortly after that country was literally decimated by war.  A sign on the door says he&#039;ll be closed next week for a family trip.   I ask &quot;where are you all going.&quot;  He replies, &quot;We are going to Boston, my daughter starts at University&quot;  .  &quot;Oh so which school.&quot;  &quot;She is at Harvard&quot;

Now I know this has to be a lie, because no way is America is generous and free country and land of oportunity et al and only Kennedys go to Harvard and only Bushes go to Yale (or do middle class kids from Arkansas go there as well?)

I put an extra two bucks in the tip jar so he could get psychriatic help for his delusions.
Kenny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So, I go to to this small Mom and Pop place in the strip mall down the street from my apartment to grab some take-out after work.  Its just Mr. Lee and his wife that work there; sometimes his kids are in there, but most of the time not.  Mr. Lee is about 50, and came to the US from Korea with just the clothes on his back and no knowlege of English shortly after that country was literally decimated by war.  A sign on the door says he&#8217;ll be closed next week for a family trip.   I ask &#8220;where are you all going.&#8221;  He replies, &#8220;We are going to Boston, my daughter starts at University&#8221;  .  &#8220;Oh so which school.&#8221;  &#8220;She is at Harvard&#8221;</p>

	<p>Now I know this has to be a lie, because no way is America is generous and free country and land of oportunity et al and only Kennedys go to Harvard and only Bushes go to Yale (or do middle class kids from Arkansas go there as well?)</p>

	<p>I put an extra two bucks in the tip jar so he could get psychriatic help for his delusions.<br />
Kenny</p>
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		<title>By: JCC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-96704</link>
		<dc:creator>JCC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-96704</guid>
		<description>For those who snipe against this article, I think that they need to step back and look at the big picture. Particularly those who have never left the States, ever. Marie, from the perspective of a non-US citizen, makes some valid points.

The fact is we are supposed to be a &quot;government of the people, by the people and for the people&quot;, and having lived through a flooding when HUD existed, and having volunteered in New Jersey in &#039;86 for some unremembered named Hurricane, and having also served in the US Army as well as worked for a private concern in Iraq, it is clear to me that our present Government failed the people of the hard-hit Gulf States. Previous responses that I either indirectly or directly witnessed, or took direct part in were quick and as effective as the situation would allow.

That is not to say that this time the people in the neighboring States failed, they did not, or military support outright failed, it did not. It was a clear and obvious Federal Administration failure, and worse, they failed the poorest among us. It is a shame that the American People as a whole will have to deal with, and as usual, we will deal with it in a very public way (to our credit, I believe).

It will be painful, and it will take some time. 

Hopefully the &lt;strong&gt;structural&lt;/strong&gt; problems of disparate wealth distribution, racism, energy policies, and emergency preparedness will improve somewhat. 

Unfortunately all this pent-up anger between the haves and have-nots, and the newly defined  liberals and newly defined conservatives that is prevalent throughout the US will make it difficult at best, but we&#039;ll get through it, one way or another. We&#039;re only human, as Katrina as clearly shown the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For those who snipe against this article, I think that they need to step back and look at the big picture. Particularly those who have never left the States, ever. Marie, from the perspective of a non-US citizen, makes some valid points.</p>

	<p>The fact is we are supposed to be a &#8220;government of the people, by the people and for the people&#8221;, and having lived through a flooding when <span class="caps">HUD</span> existed, and having volunteered in New Jersey in &#8216;86 for some unremembered named Hurricane, and having also served in the <span class="caps">US </span>Army as well as worked for a private concern in Iraq, it is clear to me that our present Government failed the people of the hard-hit Gulf States. Previous responses that I either indirectly or directly witnessed, or took direct part in were quick and as effective as the situation would allow.</p>

	<p>That is not to say that this time the people in the neighboring States failed, they did not, or military support outright failed, it did not. It was a clear and obvious Federal Administration failure, and worse, they failed the poorest among us. It is a shame that the American People as a whole will have to deal with, and as usual, we will deal with it in a very public way (to our credit, I believe).</p>

	<p>It will be painful, and it will take some time.</p>

	<p>Hopefully the <strong>structural</strong> problems of disparate wealth distribution, racism, energy policies, and emergency preparedness will improve somewhat.</p>

	<p>Unfortunately all this pent-up anger between the haves and have-nots, and the newly defined  liberals and newly defined conservatives that is prevalent throughout the US will make it difficult at best, but we&#8217;ll get through it, one way or another. We&#8217;re only human, as Katrina as clearly shown the world.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/04/myths-about-america/comment-page-4/#comment-96582</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3756#comment-96582</guid>
		<description>If we had things as well organized as the Irish Jefferson Davis would be on half our dollar bills and Baptist raiding parties from Richmond would be fire-bombing Catholic neighborhoods Boston. Ah, &#039;tis a foin, foin life indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If we had things as well organized as the Irish Jefferson Davis would be on half our dollar bills and Baptist raiding parties from Richmond would be fire-bombing Catholic neighborhoods Boston. Ah, &#8216;tis a foin, foin life indeed!</p>
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