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	<title>Comments on: Tsunami and hurricane</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97670</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97670</guid>
		<description>Eudoxis, I would really, &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; appreciate it if you would respond to rs&#039; comment in #17 before you go any further. I&#039;m trying to believe you aren&#039;t as utterly callous as you come off, but you&#039;re making it very difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eudoxis, I would really, <i>really</i> appreciate it if you would respond to rs&#8217; comment in #17 before you go any further. I&#8217;m trying to believe you aren&#8217;t as utterly callous as you come off, but you&#8217;re making it very difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: eudoxis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97632</link>
		<dc:creator>eudoxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97632</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s like saying 20 million tourists come to Vegas each year from all over the world while only 20 thousand Americans go to visit the Eiffel tower.  Interesting, but there is no meaningful relationship between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s like saying 20 million tourists come to Vegas each year from all over the world while only 20 thousand Americans go to visit the Eiffel tower.  Interesting, but there is no meaningful relationship between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Outside The Beltway</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97599</link>
		<dc:creator>Outside The Beltway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97599</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Katrina and Asian Tsunami Relief Comparison&lt;/strong&gt;

	John Quiggin observes that,

	Ten days after the New Orleans disaster, the US has accepted offers of foreign aid totalling $US1 billion, but most of the assistance is not getting through because of red tape.

	In contrast, he notes that some aid reach...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Katrina and Asian Tsunami Relief Comparison</strong></p>

	<p>John Quiggin observes that,</p>

	<p>Ten days after the New Orleans disaster, the US has accepted offers of foreign aid totalling $US1 billion, but most of the assistance is not getting through because of red tape.</p>

	<p>In contrast, he notes that some aid reach&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97592</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97592</guid>
		<description>Actually 16! = 20,922,789,888,000 so there may be places on the Bush economic team for Sebastian and JQ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually 16! = 20,922,789,888,000 so there may be places on the Bush economic team for Sebastian and JQ.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97589</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97589</guid>
		<description>&quot;Also I hear that 2×2=4 AND 4×4=16!&quot;

Careful! That kind of talk gets you fired from the Bush economic team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Also I hear that 2&#215;2=4 <span class="caps">AND 4</span>&#215;4=16!&#8221;</p>

	<p>Careful! That kind of talk gets you fired from the Bush economic team.</p>
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		<title>By: RS</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97587</link>
		<dc:creator>RS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97587</guid>
		<description>&quot;there is no evidence, so far, that anybody lost their life because of that delay and as the people in those centers have been rescued it’s a non-issue&quot;

So your contention is that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4213214.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dead people&lt;/a&gt; would have died anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;there is no evidence, so far, that anybody lost their life because of that delay and as the people in those centers have been rescued it&#8217;s a non-issue&#8221;</p>

	<p>So your contention is that the <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4213214.stm" rel="nofollow">dead people</a> would have died anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: ivan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97586</link>
		<dc:creator>ivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97586</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the same with all kinds of capital i guess. It should go from the rich to the poor countries. Instead on net it goes to the richest country of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s the same with all kinds of capital i guess. It should go from the rich to the poor countries. Instead on net it goes to the richest country of all.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom T.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97446</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97446</guid>
		<description>I, too, was appalled to see the US accepting $1 billion in aid, but the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-07-katrina-world_x.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;breakdown&lt;/a&gt; by country shows that over 2/3 of that amount is coming from Persian Gulf states, with $500 million just from Kuwait.  That strikes me as money that the US should be willing to accept.  $1 million from Bangladesh seems much harder to justify, but maybe this is a diplomatic damce of some sort, such that we can&#039;t openly refuse without being impolite.  I&#039;d like to think that the US won&#039;t actually hold Bangladesh to execution of its pledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I, too, was appalled to see the US accepting $1 billion in aid, but the <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-07-katrina-world_x.htm" rel="nofollow">breakdown</a> by country shows that over 2/3 of that amount is coming from Persian Gulf states, with $500 million just from Kuwait.  That strikes me as money that the US should be willing to accept.  $1 million from Bangladesh seems much harder to justify, but maybe this is a diplomatic damce of some sort, such that we can&#8217;t openly refuse without being impolite.  I&#8217;d like to think that the US won&#8217;t actually hold Bangladesh to execution of its pledge.</p>
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		<title>By: eudoxis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97435</link>
		<dc:creator>eudoxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97435</guid>
		<description>For what it’s worth, I think the president did an atrocious job during this disaster.  Though, I can’t point specifically to any decisions that he made, I would judge his delay of decisions a problem.  I suspect, however, that what most of us are seeing as a failure of Bush&amp;Co. with regard to New Orleans is a result of long-term systemic failures and short-comings in multiple areas.  I personally despised his the president&#039;s casual dereliction of duty to the psychological leadership role.  

Regarding the bottom line in the number of lives saved, something that should be a consideration in any disaster planning, I question whether a highly efficient response team in charge of activities immediately surrounding landfall of hurricane Katrina would have resulted in a great number of saved lives.

It can be assumed that, theoretically, there is, for this hurricane or any other, an optimal solution for the evacuation and rescue logistics and implementation.  No plan can anticipate such a solution because a plan, by it&#039;s nature must be prepared for a great number of possibilities.  It is an open question whether such an optimal solution would have saved all lives.  

Clearly, the evacuation process gives the greatest opportunity for increased safety.   Yet, a massive transport of scared or unwilling, unprepared, or extra needs people is a lengthy process that only works beautifully during drills when healthy high school volunteers play the victims.  The curious delay between storm surge and flood may have changed the response.  There was an opportunity for some evacuees to return to the city and for rescue efforts to be put on hold.  After the flood, all focus was on rescue efforts and with victims scattered and hidden this was an understandably slow and tedious process.  Time zero for NO was after the levee was breached.

(I tend to dismiss the event that most people are latching on to as evidence of a botched rescue effort; the apparent delay in getting water to the super dome or convention center.  This is not a callousness, but a realization that there is no evidence, so far, that anybody lost their life because of that delay and as the people in those centers have been rescued it’s a non-issue.)

The difference in lives saved between an optimal response and the actual response is not known.  Estimates will no doubt be forthcoming. Intuitively, it seems that everything should have gone much better.  But chaos is inherently a result of disaster.  This is not the same as saying “shit happens”.  It is saying that shit is the result of certain circumstances.   It’s a result of massive hurricanes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I think the president did an atrocious job during this disaster.  Though, I can&#8217;t point specifically to any decisions that he made, I would judge his delay of decisions a problem.  I suspect, however, that what most of us are seeing as a failure of Bush&#038;Co. with regard to New Orleans is a result of long-term systemic failures and short-comings in multiple areas.  I personally despised his the president&#8217;s casual dereliction of duty to the psychological leadership role.</p>

	<p>Regarding the bottom line in the number of lives saved, something that should be a consideration in any disaster planning, I question whether a highly efficient response team in charge of activities immediately surrounding landfall of hurricane Katrina would have resulted in a great number of saved lives.</p>

	<p>It can be assumed that, theoretically, there is, for this hurricane or any other, an optimal solution for the evacuation and rescue logistics and implementation.  No plan can anticipate such a solution because a plan, by it&#8217;s nature must be prepared for a great number of possibilities.  It is an open question whether such an optimal solution would have saved all lives.</p>

	<p>Clearly, the evacuation process gives the greatest opportunity for increased safety.   Yet, a massive transport of scared or unwilling, unprepared, or extra needs people is a lengthy process that only works beautifully during drills when healthy high school volunteers play the victims.  The curious delay between storm surge and flood may have changed the response.  There was an opportunity for some evacuees to return to the city and for rescue efforts to be put on hold.  After the flood, all focus was on rescue efforts and with victims scattered and hidden this was an understandably slow and tedious process.  Time zero for NO was after the levee was breached.</p>

	<p>(I tend to dismiss the event that most people are latching on to as evidence of a botched rescue effort; the apparent delay in getting water to the super dome or convention center.  This is not a callousness, but a realization that there is no evidence, so far, that anybody lost their life because of that delay and as the people in those centers have been rescued it&#8217;s a non-issue.)</p>

	<p>The difference in lives saved between an optimal response and the actual response is not known.  Estimates will no doubt be forthcoming. Intuitively, it seems that everything should have gone much better.  But chaos is inherently a result of disaster.  This is not the same as saying &#8220;shit happens&#8221;.  It is saying that shit is the result of certain circumstances.   It&#8217;s a result of massive hurricanes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Holsclaw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97431</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Holsclaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97431</guid>
		<description>Also I hear that 2x2=4 AND 4x4=16!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also I hear that 2&#215;2=4 <span class="caps">AND</span> 4&#215;4=16!</p>
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		<title>By: eudoxis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97424</link>
		<dc:creator>eudoxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97424</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s data.&lt;/i&gt;True.  It&#039;s also true that there&#039;s a straight line between any two random points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It&#8217;s data.</i>True.  It&#8217;s also true that there&#8217;s a straight line between any two random points.</p>
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		<title>By: a different chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97417</link>
		<dc:creator>a different chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97417</guid>
		<description>Oh, but despite my reasonable tone this is damn humiliating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, but despite my reasonable tone this is damn humiliating.</p>
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		<title>By: a different chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97416</link>
		<dc:creator>a different chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97416</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I think this is &quot;valuation&quot; not actual cash.  So - totally made up example - if India is providing, say, a certain boat with certain water-borne construction capability (not unlikely given the Ganges) and that boat&#039;s time is booked at $1million US/ month, I don&#039;t see how sending the boat over here hurts their poor any.

OTOH, the US should damn well pay the $1 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Andrew, I think this is &#8220;valuation&#8221; not actual cash.  So &#8211; totally made up example &#8211; if India is providing, say, a certain boat with certain water-borne construction capability (not unlikely given the Ganges) and that boat&#8217;s time is booked at $1million US/ month, I don&#8217;t see how sending the boat over here hurts their poor any.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">OTOH</span>, the US should damn well pay the $1 million.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97415</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97415</guid>
		<description>&quot;Something seems to be missing from this post. How does one make sense of these numbers?&quot;

It&#039;s data. Working how to make sense of it is up to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Something seems to be missing from this post. How does one make sense of these numbers?&#8221;</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s data. Working how to make sense of it is up to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/comment-page-1/#comment-97344</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/08/tsunami-and-hurricane/#comment-97344</guid>
		<description>I have a problem with the US accepting aid from devoloping nations suck as India; there are desparately poor people in India, too. Maybe if Bush would cut the Iraq war short a bit, there might be more than enough money to go around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have a problem with the US accepting aid from devoloping nations suck as India; there are desparately poor people in India, too. Maybe if Bush would cut the Iraq war short a bit, there might be more than enough money to go around.</p>
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