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	<title>Comments on: Education, education, education?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: tk</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98690</link>
		<dc:creator>tk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98690</guid>
		<description>To my shock, the mandarins who do SOX auditing and testing have decided that credentials should be part of the standards. I work in a business where there is no relevant academic training, beyond basic skills. The illegal tax shelter sellers are now making their living telling companies that there should be certain credential standards for certain positions. And these people have no experience or background in the business. SOX will be then end of capitalism, and the beginning of weird bureaucracies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To my shock, the mandarins who do <span class="caps">SOX</span> auditing and testing have decided that credentials should be part of the standards. I work in a business where there is no relevant academic training, beyond basic skills. The illegal tax shelter sellers are now making their living telling companies that there should be certain credential standards for certain positions. And these people have no experience or background in the business. <span class="caps">SOX</span> will be then end of capitalism, and the beginning of weird bureaucracies.</p>
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		<title>By: meika</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98208</link>
		<dc:creator>meika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98208</guid>
		<description>randomness is the only fairness, all else is tyranny masquerading as justice, nepotism might be worse than meritocracy, but scrambling in the meritocracy will blind us to the nepotism that drowns cities</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>randomness is the only fairness, all else is tyranny masquerading as justice, nepotism might be worse than meritocracy, but scrambling in the meritocracy will blind us to the nepotism that drowns cities</p>
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		<title>By: jayann</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98194</link>
		<dc:creator>jayann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98194</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;or ( c) a bit of fancy footwork involving the definitions of “social mobility” and “hardly changed at all”.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s (c), Dan, but the fancy footwork isn&#039;t I think deliberate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>or ( c) a bit of fancy footwork involving the definitions of &#8220;social mobility&#8221; and &#8220;hardly changed at all&#8221;.</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s&#169;, Dan, but the fancy footwork isn&#8217;t I think deliberate.</p>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Education: more, please</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98181</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Education: more, please</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98181</guid>
		<description>[...] In his post on education, Chris floats a hypothesis for commenters to shoot down if they want to.  However, since most of the commenters agree with Chris, it looks like I&#8217;ll have to provide the other side of the debate. I&#8217;m also not linking to any evidence, though I discussed a fair bit of it here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] In his post on education, Chris floats a hypothesis for commenters to shoot down if they want to.  However, since most of the commenters agree with Chris, it looks like I&rsquo;ll have to provide the other side of the debate. I&#8217;m also not linking to any evidence, though I discussed a fair bit of it here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98074</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98074</guid>
		<description>A trawl through the BBC news archives for past reports about research on graduate pay in Britain show that on average graduates do relatively well in life-time earnings compared with non-graduates -- with the possible  exception of those with arts degrees. Might this be one reason for the lack of enthusiasm by some for government policy to increase the percentage of young people going into higher education?

&quot;An international comparison shows that graduates in the UK get a high  &#039;rate of return&#039; from higher education, in terms of better job  prospects and earnings. The rate of 17% puts the UK &#039;in a group of its  own&#039; - compared with 10% to 15% in Denmark, France, the Netherlands,  Sweden and the US and 7% in Italy and Japan, according to the  Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).&quot;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2371111.stm

&quot;A sharp increase in the number of people getting degrees has not reduced the extra earning power of graduates. The annual education  report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development  shows graduates are still maintaining a pay gap. . . In the UK, average  graduate earnings are 59% above those of non-graduates. &quot;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3652376.stm

&quot;Graduates can expect to earn £150,000 more over their lifetimes than  those with just A-levels - £250,000 less than previously estimated - a  report says. Economists at Swansea University said some subjects - such  as the arts - could even mean losses, when fees and living costs are  taken into account.&quot;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4599267.stm

&quot;A degree in an arts subject reduces average earnings to below those of  someone who leaves school with just A-levels, a study shows. Graduates  in these subjects - including history and English - could expect to  make between 2% and 10% less than those who quit education at 18,  researchers at Warwick University found.&quot;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2823717.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A trawl through the <span class="caps">BBC</span> news archives for past reports about research on graduate pay in Britain show that on average graduates do relatively well in life-time earnings compared with non-graduates&#8212;with the possible  exception of those with arts degrees. Might this be one reason for the lack of enthusiasm by some for government policy to increase the percentage of young people going into higher education?</p>

	<p>&#8220;An international comparison shows that graduates in the UK get a high  &#8216;rate of return&#8217; from higher education, in terms of better job  prospects and earnings. The rate of 17% puts the <span class="caps">UK </span>&#8216;in a group of its  own&#8217; &#8211; compared with 10% to 15% in Denmark, France, the Netherlands,  Sweden and the US and 7% in Italy and Japan, according to the  Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2371111.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2371111.stm</a></p>

	<p>&#8220;A sharp increase in the number of people getting degrees has not reduced the extra earning power of graduates. The annual education  report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development  shows graduates are still maintaining a pay gap. . . In the UK, average  graduate earnings are 59% above those of non-graduates. &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3652376.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3652376.stm</a></p>

	<p>&#8220;Graduates can expect to earn &#163;150,000 more over their lifetimes than  those with just A-levels &#8211; &#163;250,000 less than previously estimated &#8211; a  report says. Economists at Swansea University said some subjects &#8211; such  as the arts &#8211; could even mean losses, when fees and living costs are  taken into account.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4599267.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4599267.stm</a></p>

	<p>&#8220;A degree in an arts subject reduces average earnings to below those of  someone who leaves school with just A-levels, a study shows. Graduates  in these subjects &#8211; including history and English &#8211; could expect to  make between 2% and 10% less than those who quit education at 18,  researchers at Warwick University found.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2823717.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2823717.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98072</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 04:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98072</guid>
		<description>Paul Krugman has a nice work on inequelity, education and trade which points a bit on the direction of Chris&#039;s post. Here&#039;s the link http://www.pkarchive.org/theory/Exotic.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Paul Krugman has a nice work on inequelity, education and trade which points a bit on the direction of Chris&#8217;s post. Here&#8217;s the link <a href="http://www.pkarchive.org/theory/Exotic.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.pkarchive.org/theory/Exotic.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98040</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98040</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Well, right, and most students in such situations don’t major in English or Philosophy or Art History. They tend to be more hard-nosed about it—they study accounting, or education, or become respiratory therapists, etc.&lt;/i&gt;

This is not as true as you think. Through various sources I know of a lot of people from those situations who were less practical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Well, right, and most students in such situations don&#8217;t major in English or Philosophy or Art History. They tend to be more hard-nosed about it&#8212;they study accounting, or education, or become respiratory therapists, etc.</i></p>

	<p>This is not as true as you think. Through various sources I know of a lot of people from those situations who were less practical.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98037</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98037</guid>
		<description>rich is right. Anyone on this thread who hasn&#039;t read Hirsch (I mean, actually read him, all the way through, carefully..) should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>rich is right. Anyone on this thread who hasn&#8217;t read Hirsch (I mean, actually read him, all the way through, carefully..) should.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Puchalsky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98036</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Puchalsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98036</guid>
		<description>All of this is in Hirsch&#039;s classic _Social Limits to Growth_.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>All of this is in Hirsch&#8217;s classic <em>Social Limits to Growth</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98034</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 23:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98034</guid>
		<description>Oh, nonsense!  This is not a choice between cronyism and meritocracy.  Even today, access to an elite education in most countries - including the USA - involves enormous amounts of implicit nepotism.  I went to an elite private high school on a scholarship because they had to &lt;i&gt;actively search out bright but poor pupils to raise their test scores&lt;/i&gt;.  Otherwise, the rich kids would have stopped coming.  How did their parents get rich?  By going to rich schools that got them the kinds of jobs that pay for private education for their dumb kids.  

If you want both broad access to education and the elimination of unnecessary cronyism, I should think the solution is quite simple: For every degree a university gives to its graduates, it must grant an identical degree to a randomly chosen non-student.  The signalling value of a degree will be simply wiped out. the cost of education can remain high enough that at least most students will have some commitment to their education,  the fetish value of a university education will vanish, and the unearned economic gains that come from simply being able to afford to get a degree in basket-weaving or business administration will be distributed more equitably among the population. while those students who actually get an education will only see economic gain from doing so if they genuinely acquire meaningful, employable skills from it.

Never underestimate the power of randomness as a policy strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, nonsense!  This is not a choice between cronyism and meritocracy.  Even today, access to an elite education in most countries &#8211; including the <span class="caps">USA </span>- involves enormous amounts of implicit nepotism.  I went to an elite private high school on a scholarship because they had to <i>actively search out bright but poor pupils to raise their test scores</i>.  Otherwise, the rich kids would have stopped coming.  How did their parents get rich?  By going to rich schools that got them the kinds of jobs that pay for private education for their dumb kids.</p>

	<p>If you want both broad access to education and the elimination of unnecessary cronyism, I should think the solution is quite simple: For every degree a university gives to its graduates, it must grant an identical degree to a randomly chosen non-student.  The signalling value of a degree will be simply wiped out. the cost of education can remain high enough that at least most students will have some commitment to their education,  the fetish value of a university education will vanish, and the unearned economic gains that come from simply being able to afford to get a degree in basket-weaving or business administration will be distributed more equitably among the population. while those students who actually get an education will only see economic gain from doing so if they genuinely acquire meaningful, employable skills from it.</p>

	<p>Never underestimate the power of randomness as a policy strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98024</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98024</guid>
		<description>Relative social mobility has been (more or less) constant in Britain, Dan. Similarly the US. I don&#039;t know about other OECD countries; except that now, all of them have pretty similar rates of social mobility, apart from Sweden, which has a slightly, but noticeably, higher rate. This is not something about which people who study these things disagree (the significance of it, of course, is something they disagree about).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Relative social mobility has been (more or less) constant in Britain, Dan. Similarly the US. I don&#8217;t know about other <span class="caps">OECD</span> countries; except that now, all of them have pretty similar rates of social mobility, apart from Sweden, which has a slightly, but noticeably, higher rate. This is not something about which people who study these things disagree (the significance of it, of course, is something they disagree about).</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-98020</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 23:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-98020</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Over the course of the past century, in the UK, relative social mobility (for men) has hardly changed at all, despite continuing rise in access to HE.&lt;/em&gt;

Is this really true?  Is social mobility in Britain in 2005 really roughly equivalent to social mobility in Britain in 1905?  That sounds to me like either ( a) a searing indictment of modern Britain, quite apart from anything it might say about education; ( b) a radical revision of the common understanding of British society ca. 1905; or ( c) a bit of fancy footwork involving the definitions of &quot;social mobility&quot; and &quot;hardly changed at all&quot;.  I&#039;m curious to know which.  

&lt;em&gt;I’m certainly inclined to conjecture with Chris (and many other here) that, at minimum, expansion of HE is not the most efficient way of improving social mobility.&lt;/em&gt;

Without a doubt, &quot;the most efficient way of improving social mobility&quot;--if that, &lt;em&gt;tout court&lt;/em&gt;, is your goal--is simply to impose a regime of strict income and wealth redistribution.  Advocates of increasing access to education have traditionally had broader goals, though, such as improving the economy&#039;s overall efficiency by providing good metrics of prospective competence, apportioning jobs more fairly even within socioeconomic classes, and providing real opportunities for members of lower classes to improve their lot in life--regardless of how many people actually choose to avail themselves of them.  

Of course, there will be some for whom these benefits are meaningless, and for whom all that really matters is the holy grail of &quot;social mobility&quot;.  I assume that such people are simply using &quot;social mobility&quot; as a euphemism for strict redistributionism--that is, the demand that class status be redistributed continuously irrespective of any notion of merit or achievement.  Why they would ever have thought educational access to be a plausible means to that end, I have no idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>Over the course of the past century, in the UK, relative social mobility (for men) has hardly changed at all, despite continuing rise in access to HE.</em></p>

	<p>Is this really true?  Is social mobility in Britain in 2005 really roughly equivalent to social mobility in Britain in 1905?  That sounds to me like either ( a) a searing indictment of modern Britain, quite apart from anything it might say about education; ( b) a radical revision of the common understanding of British society ca. 1905; or ( c) a bit of fancy footwork involving the definitions of &#8220;social mobility&#8221; and &#8220;hardly changed at all&#8221;.  I&#8217;m curious to know which.</p>

	<p><em>I&#8217;m certainly inclined to conjecture with Chris (and many other here) that, at minimum, expansion of HE is not the most efficient way of improving social mobility.</em></p>

	<p>Without a doubt, &#8220;the most efficient way of improving social mobility&#8221;&#8212;if that, <em>tout court</em>, is your goal&#8212;is simply to impose a regime of strict income and wealth redistribution.  Advocates of increasing access to education have traditionally had broader goals, though, such as improving the economy&#8217;s overall efficiency by providing good metrics of prospective competence, apportioning jobs more fairly even within socioeconomic classes, and providing real opportunities for members of lower classes to improve their lot in life&#8212;regardless of how many people actually choose to avail themselves of them.</p>

	<p>Of course, there will be some for whom these benefits are meaningless, and for whom all that really matters is the holy grail of &#8220;social mobility&#8221;.  I assume that such people are simply using &#8220;social mobility&#8221; as a euphemism for strict redistributionism&#8212;that is, the demand that class status be redistributed continuously irrespective of any notion of merit or achievement.  Why they would ever have thought educational access to be a plausible means to that end, I have no idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-97999</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-97999</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think that the nub of the problem comes when you look at a motivated, bright average kid, from a mediocre school and with no significant family support. How well does the present system work for him? What would his wisest choice be? How could the system be better for him?&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;I believe in cultural enrichment, but for him to go $20,000 in debt for a humanities degree from a midrange-or-lower school strikes me as a bad choice. Even a Harvard English degree wouldn’t necessarily be worth it.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, right, and most students in such situations don&#039;t major in English or Philosophy or Art History.  They tend to be more hard-nosed about it --they study accounting, or education, or become respiratory therapists, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I think that the nub of the problem comes when you look at a motivated, bright average kid, from a mediocre school and with no significant family support. How well does the present system work for him? What would his wisest choice be? How could the system be better for him?</i></p>

	<p><i>I believe in cultural enrichment, but for him to go $20,000 in debt for a humanities degree from a midrange-or-lower school strikes me as a bad choice. Even a Harvard English degree wouldn&#8217;t necessarily be worth it.</i></p>

	<p>Well, right, and most students in such situations don&#8217;t major in English or Philosophy or Art History.  They tend to be more hard-nosed about it&#8212;they study accounting, or education, or become respiratory therapists, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-97981</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-97981</guid>
		<description>As to the question of why university grads might want to work in bookshops more than in other retail outlets (or why they&#039;d want to work in retail at all), let me suggest:

1) Employee discounts. I&#039;ve worked at bookshops that gave me 30% off what customers paid. If you buy enough books -- and university grads might be presumed to be interested in  doing so -- this can add up.

2) An interesting and educated clientele. Not true in all instances, but definitely in some.

3) An interesting product. If you haven&#039;t tried, trust me: it&#039;s far more fun to sell something you care about than something you don&#039;t.

4) The chance to meet authors at readings. If you&#039;re  an aspiring writer yourself, this can tap your hero-worship buttons. 

5) Evening hours -- often later than at other shops. If you haven&#039;t shaken the college sleep schedule yet, this can help out.

6) Free coffee. The chance to read interesting snippets when you should be shelving. Etc., etc.

The point is, there are lots of reasons well-educated people might want to work around books, even if what they&#039;re doing is selling said books rather than writing, publishing, or teaching them.  It seems like kind of a no-brainer to me. And similarly, while I&#039;m not a big fan of inflexible requirements for any job, I see many reasons why bookshops would want to hire people who, well, are well-read and actually care about books. Obviously, this doesn’t mean only college grads: one of the best bookshop employees  -- and one of the most self-educated people  -- I’ve ever known is a drop-out friend of mine. But aiming for people with degrees seems a reasonable place to start. I wouldn’t want someone working in an auto parts store who knew nothing about cars, or a toystore clerk who knew nothing about children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As to the question of why university grads might want to work in bookshops more than in other retail outlets (or why they&#8217;d want to work in retail at all), let me suggest:</p>

	<p>1) Employee discounts. I&#8217;ve worked at bookshops that gave me 30% off what customers paid. If you buy enough books&#8212;and university grads might be presumed to be interested in  doing so&#8212;this can add up.</p>

	<p>2) An interesting and educated clientele. Not true in all instances, but definitely in some.</p>

	<p>3) An interesting product. If you haven&#8217;t tried, trust me: it&#8217;s far more fun to sell something you care about than something you don&#8217;t.</p>

	<p>4) The chance to meet authors at readings. If you&#8217;re  an aspiring writer yourself, this can tap your hero-worship buttons.</p>

	<p>5) Evening hours&#8212;often later than at other shops. If you haven&#8217;t shaken the college sleep schedule yet, this can help out.</p>

	<p>6) Free coffee. The chance to read interesting snippets when you should be shelving. Etc., etc.</p>

	<p>The point is, there are lots of reasons well-educated people might want to work around books, even if what they&#8217;re doing is selling said books rather than writing, publishing, or teaching them.  It seems like kind of a no-brainer to me. And similarly, while I&#8217;m not a big fan of inflexible requirements for any job, I see many reasons why bookshops would want to hire people who, well, are well-read and actually care about books. Obviously, this doesn&#8217;t mean only college grads: one of the best bookshop employees &#8212;and one of the most self-educated people &#8212;I&#8217;ve ever known is a drop-out friend of mine. But aiming for people with degrees seems a reasonable place to start. I wouldn&#8217;t want someone working in an auto parts store who knew nothing about cars, or a toystore clerk who knew nothing about children.</p>
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		<title>By: soubzriquet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/comment-page-2/#comment-97903</link>
		<dc:creator>soubzriquet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/09/education-education-education/#comment-97903</guid>
		<description>samchevre:

A possible addition to your steps: stop indoctrinating kids with the `necessity&#039; of university education.  I&#039;m not sure what is/was like elsewhere, but certainly when I was going through grade school there was a continuous message that you needed to go to university to get anywhere in life.  I don&#039;t recall anyone ever saying `hey, you could make a very good living as a tool and die machinist&#039;.  The worst of this is that kids whose real aptitudes lay in trades often never considered them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>samchevre:</p>

	<p>A possible addition to your steps: stop indoctrinating kids with the `necessity&#8217; of university education.  I&#8217;m not sure what is/was like elsewhere, but certainly when I was going through grade school there was a continuous message that you needed to go to university to get anywhere in life.  I don&#8217;t recall anyone ever saying `hey, you could make a very good living as a tool and die machinist&#8217;.  The worst of this is that kids whose real aptitudes lay in trades often never considered them.</p>
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