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	<title>Comments on: Windschuttle flips again</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: epoch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-99390</link>
		<dc:creator>epoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 04:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-99390</guid>
		<description>The google hits don&#039;t necessarily mean much, social science and humanities practitionars are considered left-wing by default. So their political orientation may only have to be specified when dealing with someone who deviates from the norm.

Further more to the person who asked if there are any historians as leftwing as Windschuttle is rightwing, the left vs right thing is largely based on how you define the center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The google hits don&#8217;t necessarily mean much, social science and humanities practitionars are considered left-wing by default. So their political orientation may only have to be specified when dealing with someone who deviates from the norm.</p>

	<p>Further more to the person who asked if there are any historians as leftwing as Windschuttle is rightwing, the left vs right thing is largely based on how you define the center.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Hitchens</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-99176</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Hitchens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-99176</guid>
		<description>To answer mfb&#039;s question, there is at least one:  my acquaintance from the Vietnam War Discussion List (VWAR-L) Grover Furr, a professor of medieval literature at Montclair State U. in New Jersey whose enthusiastic scholarly sideline is Soviet history.  He thinks Stalin was a &quot;great guy&quot; (an exact quote) and the gulag no more than a well-justified prison system for those misguided souls who couldn&#039;t get on board with the benevolent reforms implemented by the Bolsheviks; and by the way, the numbers of prisoners and the degree of their suffering have been greatly exaggerated by anti-communist historians.  Grover recently achieved some notoriety in the blogosphere when he was cited by Michael Berube as an embarrassment to the Left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To answer mfb&#8217;s question, there is at least one:  my acquaintance from the Vietnam War Discussion List (VWAR-L) Grover Furr, a professor of medieval literature at Montclair State U. in New Jersey whose enthusiastic scholarly sideline is Soviet history.  He thinks Stalin was a &#8220;great guy&#8221; (an exact quote) and the gulag no more than a well-justified prison system for those misguided souls who couldn&#8217;t get on board with the benevolent reforms implemented by the Bolsheviks; and by the way, the numbers of prisoners and the degree of their suffering have been greatly exaggerated by anti-communist historians.  Grover recently achieved some notoriety in the blogosphere when he was cited by Michael Berube as an embarrassment to the Left.</p>
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		<title>By: MFB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-99143</link>
		<dc:creator>MFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-99143</guid>
		<description>Are there any historians as left-wing as Windschuttle is right-wing? I mean, historians who write entire books declaring that the Gulag never existed and that the Chinese Communist Party removed landlords by sending them to Jungian therapy sessions?

If Windschuttle were saying &quot;yes, Australians massacred the Aborigines and tried to wipe them out as a race and culture, and that was a damn good thing too&quot; he might be the equivalent of 1930s apologists for Stalinism. As it is, he comes across as an antipodean David Irving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are there any historians as left-wing as Windschuttle is right-wing? I mean, historians who write entire books declaring that the Gulag never existed and that the Chinese Communist Party removed landlords by sending them to Jungian therapy sessions?</p>

	<p>If Windschuttle were saying &#8220;yes, Australians massacred the Aborigines and tried to wipe them out as a race and culture, and that was a damn good thing too&#8221; he might be the equivalent of 1930s apologists for Stalinism. As it is, he comes across as an antipodean David Irving.</p>
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		<title>By: floopmeister</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-99125</link>
		<dc:creator>floopmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-99125</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;John, the point is not the political description; it’s the implied default or norm.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, that&#039;s why we need to call those extreme leftwing historians &#039;black-armband wearing&#039; so we can tell they&#039;re not of the mainstream.

Oh, except that they&#039;re all-powerful and PC and stifling debate.

Or are they both?

How &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; they do it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>John, the point is not the political description; it&#8217;s the implied default or norm.</i></p>

	<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s why we need to call those extreme leftwing historians &#8216;black-armband wearing&#8217; so we can tell they&#8217;re not of the mainstream.</p>

	<p>Oh, except that they&#8217;re all-powerful and PC and stifling debate.</p>

	<p>Or are they both?</p>

	<p>How <i>do</i> they do it?</p>
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		<title>By: anatoly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98982</link>
		<dc:creator>anatoly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98982</guid>
		<description>John, the point is not the political description; it&#039;s the implied default or norm. I just don&#039;t think that if you were writing about some other historian as explicitly left-wing as Windschuttle is right-wing that you would describe them as &quot;an interview... with leftwing historian...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John, the point is not the political description; it&#8217;s the implied default or norm. I just don&#8217;t think that if you were writing about some other historian as explicitly left-wing as Windschuttle is right-wing that you would describe them as &#8220;an interview&#8230; with leftwing historian&#8230;&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98948</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98948</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always surprised by objections to political descriptions of the kind made by Anatoly.  I don&#039;t object to being described as left-wing, and Windschuttle makes no bones about having shifted from left to right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m always surprised by objections to political descriptions of the kind made by Anatoly.  I don&#8217;t object to being described as left-wing, and Windschuttle makes no bones about having shifted from left to right.</p>
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		<title>By: Hogan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98923</link>
		<dc:creator>Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98923</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;If you have a reasonably big hit in America you’re talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars,” he says. “That’s my aim – to have a couple of big sellers and have a leisurely life.”
&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, me too. I&#039;m going to start by changing my name to Niall Ferguson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;If you have a reasonably big hit in America you&#8217;re talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars,&#8221; he says. &#8220;That&#8217;s my aim &#8211; to have a couple of big sellers and have a leisurely life.&#8221;<br />
</i></p>

	<p>Yeah, me too. I&#8217;m going to start by changing my name to Niall Ferguson.</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98909</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98909</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kevin, that was helpful.  So he just discounts it - saying the figures were inflated and disputing the historian who worked on it directly.

That is illuminating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, Kevin, that was helpful.  So he just discounts it &#8211; saying the figures were inflated and disputing the historian who worked on it directly.</p>

	<p>That is illuminating.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Alpers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98823</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Alpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98823</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;obligatory qualification&quot;

It&#039;s not at all clear to me that such qualifications are more commonly applied to the right than the left (which I take it is anatoly&#039;s implicit claim).

Very unscientifically doing Google searches on &quot;&#039;leftwing historian&#039;&quot;, &quot;&#039;left-wing historian&#039;&quot;, &quot;&#039;rightwing historian&#039;&quot; and &quot;&#039;right-wing historian,&#039;&quot; here&#039;s what I found:

&quot;leftwing historian&quot; received 129 hits
&quot;left-wing historian&quot; received 597 hits
&quot;rightwing historian&quot; received 240 hits
&quot;right-wing historian&quot; received 841 hits

or the totals:
left = 726
right = 1081

This (again unscientifically) might suggest that: 1)  people do note historians rightwing leanings somewhat more frequently than their leftwing leanings, but not by a great extent; and 2) based on the very small raw numbers here, these Google searches would suggest that these qualifications are fairly uncommon (and hence far from &quot;obligatory&quot;).

If we add the terms &quot;liberal&quot; and &quot;conservative,&quot; the numbers grow dramatically, but the relative frequency actually flips.

Googling &quot;liberal historian&quot; gets 31,800 hits
Googling &quot;conservative historian&quot; gets  16,500 hits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>re: &#8220;obligatory qualification&#8221;</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s not at all clear to me that such qualifications are more commonly applied to the right than the left (which I take it is anatoly&#8217;s implicit claim).</p>

	<p>Very unscientifically doing Google searches on &#8220;&#8217;leftwing historian&#8217;&#8221;, &#8220;&#8217;left-wing historian&#8217;&#8221;, &#8220;&#8217;rightwing historian&#8217;&#8221; and &#8220;&#8217;right-wing historian,&#8217;&#8221; here&#8217;s what I found:</p>

	<p>&#8220;leftwing historian&#8221; received 129 hits<br />
&#8220;left-wing historian&#8221; received 597 hits<br />
&#8220;rightwing historian&#8221; received 240 hits<br />
&#8220;right-wing historian&#8221; received 841 hits</p>

	<p>or the totals:<br />
left = 726<br />
right = 1081</p>

	<p>This (again unscientifically) might suggest that: 1)  people do note historians rightwing leanings somewhat more frequently than their leftwing leanings, but not by a great extent; and 2) based on the very small raw numbers here, these Google searches would suggest that these qualifications are fairly uncommon (and hence far from &#8220;obligatory&#8221;).</p>

	<p>If we add the terms &#8220;liberal&#8221; and &#8220;conservative,&#8221; the numbers grow dramatically, but the relative frequency actually flips.</p>

	<p>Googling &#8220;liberal historian&#8221; gets 31,800 hits<br />
Googling &#8220;conservative historian&#8221; gets  16,500 hits.</p>
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		<title>By: mailer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98798</link>
		<dc:creator>mailer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98798</guid>
		<description>More background on Windschuttle can be obtained from his website:

http://www.sydneyline.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>More background on Windschuttle can be obtained from his website:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.sydneyline.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sydneyline.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98797</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98797</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Just as a question: how does he deal with the eradication of the Tasmanians?&lt;/em&gt;

I know little about Tasmania and less about this guy, but this may help:

http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/20/sept01/keith.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>Just as a question: how does he deal with the eradication of the Tasmanians?</em></p>

	<p>I know little about Tasmania and less about this guy, but this may help:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/20/sept01/keith.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/20/sept01/keith.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: No Matter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98796</link>
		<dc:creator>No Matter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98796</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know a Windschuttle from a windsock.  Sounds like they are one and the same.  

But as a member of western civilization&#039;s leisure class  -- the inheiritocracy you might say --  I do know that a few hundred thousand isn&#039;t enough for a civilized life of leisure. That kind of change is sufficient only for, say, a walkabout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know a Windschuttle from a windsock.  Sounds like they are one and the same.</p>

	<p>But as a member of western civilization&#8217;s leisure class &#8212;the inheiritocracy you might say&#8212; I do know that a few hundred thousand isn&#8217;t enough for a civilized life of leisure. That kind of change is sufficient only for, say, a walkabout.</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98793</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98793</guid>
		<description>Just as a question: how does he deal with the eradication of the Tasmanians?  That seems to be a clear cut case - how does he avoid the obvious implication?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just as a question: how does he deal with the eradication of the Tasmanians?  That seems to be a clear cut case &#8211; how does he avoid the obvious implication?</p>
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		<title>By: Anatoly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98792</link>
		<dc:creator>Anatoly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98792</guid>
		<description>Gotta love the obligatory qualification!

&lt;i&gt;an interview (over lunch) with &lt;b&gt;rightwing&lt;/b&gt; Australian historian Keith Windschuttle&lt;/i&gt;

Lest anyone think that he might be, you know, the &lt;i&gt;proper&lt;/i&gt; kind of historian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gotta love the obligatory qualification!</p>

	<p><i>an interview (over lunch) with <b>rightwing</b> Australian historian Keith Windschuttle</i></p>

	<p>Lest anyone think that he might be, you know, the <i>proper</i> kind of historian.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/comment-page-1/#comment-98791</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/13/windschuttle-flips-again/#comment-98791</guid>
		<description>When reading a hack job on an author I always like to see a few examples.  Just a little salt to lend it credence.&lt;blockquote&gt;Trivial errors on the part of opponents are blown up into causes celebre, witnesses of killings and massacres are slandered, and the victims are blamed for their own misfortune.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When reading a hack job on an author I always like to see a few examples.  Just a little salt to lend it credence.<blockquote>Trivial errors on the part of opponents are blown up into causes celebre, witnesses of killings and massacres are slandered, and the victims are blamed for their own misfortune.</blockquote></p>
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