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	<title>Comments on: Selecting Future Moms</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Judy Satin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-102840</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Satin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-102840</guid>
		<description>Jay Carrie asked what&#039;s so bad about thinking that parents should raise their own children and that mums are not interchangable with nannies and daycare.

This &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.daycaresdontcare.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;anti-daycare&lt;/a&gt; website seems to agree...
http://www.daycaresdontcare.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jay Carrie asked what&#8217;s so bad about thinking that parents should raise their own children and that mums are not interchangable with nannies and daycare.</p>

	<p>This <a HREF="http://www.daycaresdontcare.org" rel="nofollow">anti-daycare</a> website seems to agree&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.daycaresdontcare.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.daycaresdontcare.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ragingpundits</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101832</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragingpundits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101832</guid>
		<description>Or more generally, do a substantial number of female students at &quot;elite&quot; colleges want to stay at home as opposed to having a full-time career?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Or more generally, do a substantial number of female students at &#8220;elite&#8221; colleges want to stay at home as opposed to having a full-time career?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101819</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101819</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Regardless of the quality of the survey, is the author correct in her conclusions?&lt;/i&gt;

In other words, regardless of how crap her questions were, did she get the right answers?

I guess the world will never know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Regardless of the quality of the survey, is the author correct in her conclusions?</i></p>

	<p>In other words, regardless of how crap her questions were, did she get the right answers?</p>

	<p>I guess the world will never know.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Fester</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101817</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101817</guid>
		<description>Why is it a bad thing for women to choose to stay home?  These are women with a choice in the matter.

God forbid they should do what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why is it a bad thing for women to choose to stay home?  These are women with a choice in the matter.</p>

	<p>God forbid they should do what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101799</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101799</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anybody note the heterosexual monogamous bias?&lt;/i&gt;

Well, yeah; I just figured that went without saying. Lesbians aren&#039;t &quot;women,&quot; silly, they&#039;re lesbians! [/snark]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Anybody note the heterosexual monogamous bias?</i></p>

	<p>Well, yeah; I just figured that went without saying. Lesbians aren&#8217;t &#8220;women,&#8221; silly, they&#8217;re lesbians! [/snark]</p>
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		<title>By: Kai Jones</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101785</link>
		<dc:creator>Kai Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101785</guid>
		<description>Anybody note the heterosexual monogamous bias?  Who cares what the men think, if you&#039;re a lesbian who plans to have children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Anybody note the heterosexual monogamous bias?  Who cares what the men think, if you&#8217;re a lesbian who plans to have children?</p>
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		<title>By: Ragingpundits</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101782</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragingpundits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101782</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not &quot;justifying&quot; the survey.  As a survey instrument it is plainly useless. One question is what is wrong with the survey and a number of people here have pointed out the most egregious flaws.  In my opinion, the more interesting question is: Regardless of the quality of the survey, is the author correct in her conclusions?

I merely pointed out that several longitudinal studies of highly educated women have produced a similar result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not &#8220;justifying&#8221; the survey.  As a survey instrument it is plainly useless. One question is what is wrong with the survey and a number of people here have pointed out the most egregious flaws.  In my opinion, the more interesting question is: Regardless of the quality of the survey, is the author correct in her conclusions?</p>

	<p>I merely pointed out that several longitudinal studies of highly educated women have produced a similar result.</p>
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		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101757</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101757</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“When you have children, do you plan to stay at home with them or do you plan to continue working? Why?”&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;How else would ask someone about their future plans? A simple open ended question like this seems to be a good way to at least get a sense of the answer. That’s my $.02.&lt;/i&gt;

The problem is not the open-ended nature of the question. Instead, it lies with the assumption that whoever is answering the question intends to have children. Yes, that &quot;when&quot; should probably be an &quot;if,&quot; but more important than that are the hints at the underlying bias of the interviewer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;When you have children, do you plan to stay at home with them or do you plan to continue working? Why?&#8221;</i></p>

	<p><i>How else would ask someone about their future plans? A simple open ended question like this seems to be a good way to at least get a sense of the answer. That&#8217;s my $.02.</i></p>

	<p>The problem is not the open-ended nature of the question. Instead, it lies with the assumption that whoever is answering the question intends to have children. Yes, that &#8220;when&#8221; should probably be an &#8220;if,&#8221; but more important than that are the hints at the underlying bias of the interviewer.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101753</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101753</guid>
		<description>As others have pointed out, the NYT runs &quot;Rich women! Leave your jobs and stay home with your babies!&quot; articles on a semi-regular basis.

&lt;i&gt;The survey instrument is flawed but that doesn’t mean the results are incorrect. &lt;/i&gt;

This is about the funniest justification I&#039;ve seen so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As others have pointed out, the <span class="caps">NYT</span> runs &#8220;Rich women! Leave your jobs and stay home with your babies!&#8221; articles on a semi-regular basis.</p>

	<p><i>The survey instrument is flawed but that doesn&#8217;t mean the results are incorrect. </i></p>

	<p>This is about the funniest justification I&#8217;ve seen so far.</p>
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		<title>By: theorajones</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101749</link>
		<dc:creator>theorajones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101749</guid>
		<description>She didn&#039;t get a 60% response rate.  Her response rate is unknown, as is the group of women she polled  (was it all freshmen/seniors, or a subset?). 

I have to agree with Uncle Kvetch--my favorite question was, &quot;what do you think the boys think about this?&quot;  

Beyond turning off all women who don&#039;t structure their life choices around whether or not it appeals to men, the fact that she didn&#039;t ask the boys is actually a huge failure from a social sciences perspective.  

For all we know, there could have been a sea change in attitude at Yale, with everyone wanting to earn less money and have a lifestyle that included more time with the kids.  That would have been a really interesting finding, with potentially large repercussions.  I have no idea if that&#039;s going on, or if something totally different is going on (maybe Yale grads all plan to adopt or live in communes or are all so wealthy they were all raised by nannies), and neither does she! 

But everything in this &quot;survey&quot; was structured to fit into her already-written storyline:  every woman (and no man) faces the same identical choice, and has only two options of how to deal with it.  

That&#039;s not research.  That&#039;s confirming your prejudices.  This is such tripe, and it speaks poorly of the NYT that they&#039;d put it on the front page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>She didn&#8217;t get a 60% response rate.  Her response rate is unknown, as is the group of women she polled  (was it all freshmen/seniors, or a subset?).</p>

	<p>I have to agree with Uncle Kvetch&#8212;my favorite question was, &#8220;what do you think the boys think about this?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Beyond turning off all women who don&#8217;t structure their life choices around whether or not it appeals to men, the fact that she didn&#8217;t ask the boys is actually a huge failure from a social sciences perspective.</p>

	<p>For all we know, there could have been a sea change in attitude at Yale, with everyone wanting to earn less money and have a lifestyle that included more time with the kids.  That would have been a really interesting finding, with potentially large repercussions.  I have no idea if that&#8217;s going on, or if something totally different is going on (maybe Yale grads all plan to adopt or live in communes or are all so wealthy they were all raised by nannies), and neither does she!</p>

	<p>But everything in this &#8220;survey&#8221; was structured to fit into her already-written storyline:  every woman (and no man) faces the same identical choice, and has only two options of how to deal with it.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s not research.  That&#8217;s confirming your prejudices.  This is such tripe, and it speaks poorly of the <span class="caps">NYT</span> that they&#8217;d put it on the front page.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101727</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101727</guid>
		<description>If we assume that all the women who currently either intend to stay childless (or just haven&#039;t decided whether to have children), by my experience a fairly large chunk of college women, were screened out either by themselves or the reporter, that would make a pretty big difference in the stats.

Another obvious flaw in the questions is that they appear to make work vs stay home a one-time choice.  It might have been much more useful to frame things as &quot;How long do you intend to stay out of the work force?&quot; with possible answers ranging from, say, three weeks to indefinite. I&#039;d say someone who had gotten to be a reporter at the NYT should know better, but then we&#039;d all have to laugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If we assume that all the women who currently either intend to stay childless (or just haven&#8217;t decided whether to have children), by my experience a fairly large chunk of college women, were screened out either by themselves or the reporter, that would make a pretty big difference in the stats.</p>

	<p>Another obvious flaw in the questions is that they appear to make work vs stay home a one-time choice.  It might have been much more useful to frame things as &#8220;How long do you intend to stay out of the work force?&#8221; with possible answers ranging from, say, three weeks to indefinite. I&#8217;d say someone who had gotten to be a reporter at the <span class="caps">NYT</span> should know better, but then we&#8217;d all have to laugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragingpundits</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101718</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragingpundits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101718</guid>
		<description>The survey instrument is flawed but that doesn&#039;t mean the results are incorrect.  A 2001 report issues by Harvard University that tracked graduates over time showed similar results as did a fairly recent survey tracking the professional lives of several thousand gifted high school students.

Is this generation different?  Perhaps.  But  have yet to see any evidence to suggest that it is.  And my own experience is that it is not.  In fact, it makes perfect sense.  Insofar as the majority of ivy league students come from fairly privaleged backgrounds, this could simply be a case of wealth effects dominating substitution effects....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The survey instrument is flawed but that doesn&#8217;t mean the results are incorrect.  <span class="caps">A 2001</span> report issues by Harvard University that tracked graduates over time showed similar results as did a fairly recent survey tracking the professional lives of several thousand gifted high school students.</p>

	<p>Is this generation different?  Perhaps.  But  have yet to see any evidence to suggest that it is.  And my own experience is that it is not.  In fact, it makes perfect sense.  Insofar as the majority of ivy league students come from fairly privaleged backgrounds, this could simply be a case of wealth effects dominating substitution effects&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabio rojas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101712</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabio rojas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101712</guid>
		<description>I looked at Goldenberg&#039;s comments. He said they got 60% response rate and worries about sample selection. This is typical, even decent, for mail surveys these days. This would be acceptable for many, if not most, social science journals. 

There have even been a few articles in public opinion research journals suggesting low response rate doesn&#039;t really change the answers much. The reason seems to be that in many cases response is a fairly idiosyncratic process. 

As far as the questions go, they don&#039;t seem so crazy:

&quot;When you have children, do you plan to stay at home with them or do you plan to continue working? Why?&quot;

How else would ask someone about their future plans? A simple open ended question like this seems to be a good way to at least get a sense of the answer. That&#039;s my $.02.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I looked at Goldenberg&#8217;s comments. He said they got 60% response rate and worries about sample selection. This is typical, even decent, for mail surveys these days. This would be acceptable for many, if not most, social science journals.</p>

	<p>There have even been a few articles in public opinion research journals suggesting low response rate doesn&#8217;t really change the answers much. The reason seems to be that in many cases response is a fairly idiosyncratic process.</p>

	<p>As far as the questions go, they don&#8217;t seem so crazy:</p>

	<p>&#8220;When you have children, do you plan to stay at home with them or do you plan to continue working? Why?&#8221;</p>

	<p>How else would ask someone about their future plans? A simple open ended question like this seems to be a good way to at least get a sense of the answer. That&#8217;s my $.02.</p>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Some Data on Family Earning Trends</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101507</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Some Data on Family Earning Trends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101507</guid>
		<description>[...] Crooked Timber    &#171; Selecting Future Moms &#124; Main &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Crooked Timber    &laquo; Selecting Future Moms | Main | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-101506</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/21/selecting-future-moms/#comment-101506</guid>
		<description>I wonder why it is that the media in general (and NYT in particular) are so utterly obsessed with the tics and trends of undergraduate life in the Ivy League (and seemingly, Yale in particular) that they would actually run a story like this on page one. I mean, seriously -- the quality of the piece was not especially inspiring; the author didn&#039;t add much to the bare (and obviously very carefully selected) quotes.

Even that old Lisa Belkin NYT Magazine article was not as bad... although in that article, the interesting thing was to listen to Lisa Belkin trying to contort and twist her 30-something women who basically said &quot;I really want to keep working and take care of my child too, but my boss wouldn&#039;t let me&quot; into &quot;I don&#039;t wanna work, I just wanna be a full-time mom.&quot; These disappointingly unreflective Yale kids are _actually_ saying the latter, which makes me think maybe the quotes are more carefully screened than Lisa Belkin&#039;s were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder why it is that the media in general (and <span class="caps">NYT</span> in particular) are so utterly obsessed with the tics and trends of undergraduate life in the Ivy League (and seemingly, Yale in particular) that they would actually run a story like this on page one. I mean, seriously&#8212;the quality of the piece was not especially inspiring; the author didn&#8217;t add much to the bare (and obviously very carefully selected) quotes.</p>

	<p>Even that old Lisa Belkin <span class="caps">NYT </span>Magazine article was not as bad&#8230; although in that article, the interesting thing was to listen to Lisa Belkin trying to contort and twist her 30-something women who basically said &#8220;I really want to keep working and take care of my child too, but my boss wouldn&#8217;t let me&#8221; into &#8220;I don&#8217;t wanna work, I just wanna be a full-time mom.&#8221; These disappointingly unreflective Yale kids are <em>actually</em> saying the latter, which makes me think maybe the quotes are more carefully screened than Lisa Belkin&#8217;s were.</p>
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