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	<title>Comments on: Making a Success of Grad School</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104998</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104998</guid>
		<description>I felt an enormous weight drop from my arms when I held the thesis at arm&#039;s length, and let it fall to the floor with a satisfying thud. 

Someone needs to be going through this thread annotating those bits that apply to UKnians, with our rather different postgraduate structures. But not me - I&#039;m taking three days off to make a bookcase for my son and get away from thinking for a time. See ya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I felt an enormous weight drop from my arms when I held the thesis at arm&#8217;s length, and let it fall to the floor with a satisfying thud.</p>

	<p>Someone needs to be going through this thread annotating those bits that apply to UKnians, with our rather different postgraduate structures. But not me &#8211; I&#8217;m taking three days off to make a bookcase for my son and get away from thinking for a time. See ya.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Damned Medievalist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104620</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Damned Medievalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104620</guid>
		<description>I second the adviser bit -- I changed subfields to work with mine, who told me to choose carefuly, because general research areas last longer than many marriages. 

He was a bit too right on the last part -- I&#039;m still an early medievalist!

Also, DO NOT PAY FOR THE PHD.  Unless you&#039;re really rich.

Kissing ass shouldn&#039;t be necessary.  Being nice and collegial really is.  

Get your name out there early if you can -- go to conferences, etc.  I didn&#039;t do this.  Mistake.  But also, don&#039;t give too many conference papers if it keeps you from finishing in a timely manner.  You can always make up time on the paper circuit -- especially if you&#039;ve published.

Know that the job market sucks.  Unless you really are a superstar, work on your teaching, too.


Grad school is actually hard.  Academic life is hard.  It doesn&#039;t stop unless you make it stop -- you are starting a life that will likely mean no vacations without reading assignments, no plane trips without books, and eternal homework.  Grad school is not as hard as being an employed academic, though -- but it may be more stressful.

Be lucky.

Don&#039;t do it unless you really want to spend your life in this line of work. Or unless you can afford it.  

And I say all these things after working for real money outside of academe.  My job is the hardest I&#039;ve ever had.  I love it.  I can&#039;t imagine not doing it.  But it takes a certain kind of crazy to want to be an academic.  Are you crazy in the right way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I second the adviser bit&#8212;I changed subfields to work with mine, who told me to choose carefuly, because general research areas last longer than many marriages.</p>

	<p>He was a bit too right on the last part&#8212;I&#8217;m still an early medievalist!</p>

	<p>Also, <span class="caps">DO NOT PAY FOR THE PHD</span>.  Unless you&#8217;re really rich.</p>

	<p>Kissing ass shouldn&#8217;t be necessary.  Being nice and collegial really is.</p>

	<p>Get your name out there early if you can&#8212;go to conferences, etc.  I didn&#8217;t do this.  Mistake.  But also, don&#8217;t give too many conference papers if it keeps you from finishing in a timely manner.  You can always make up time on the paper circuit&#8212;especially if you&#8217;ve published.</p>

	<p>Know that the job market sucks.  Unless you really are a superstar, work on your teaching, too.</p>


	<p>Grad school is actually hard.  Academic life is hard.  It doesn&#8217;t stop unless you make it stop&#8212;you are starting a life that will likely mean no vacations without reading assignments, no plane trips without books, and eternal homework.  Grad school is not as hard as being an employed academic, though&#8212;but it may be more stressful.</p>

	<p>Be lucky.</p>

	<p>Don&#8217;t do it unless you really want to spend your life in this line of work. Or unless you can afford it.</p>

	<p>And I say all these things after working for real money outside of academe.  My job is the hardest I&#8217;ve ever had.  I love it.  I can&#8217;t imagine not doing it.  But it takes a certain kind of crazy to want to be an academic.  Are you crazy in the right way?</p>
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		<title>By: eponymous</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104509</link>
		<dc:creator>eponymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104509</guid>
		<description>All good comments - I will also concur about the advisor. Possibly the most important element in the whole process.  


&quot;I remember feeling an enormous weight lifted when my dissertation was finally defended and I knew it was over.&quot;

You know, I&#039;ve heard this from a lot of people, but I myself never felt this.  To be sure, there was a sense of relief in finally getting the disseration done and out of the way.  But I still retain some residue of that feeling that it&#039;s still not quite done.  In fact I seem to always have a reflexive element in my responses when people ask me about it.  &quot;Aren&#039;t you glad your finished?&quot;  &quot;Yes, but I should have included X and not included Y, not to mention....&quot;

In short, that feeling of &quot;never quite being done&quot; is still with me - and probably will always be with me to some extent.

Note:  Amusing anecdote - my former chair mentioned to me in passing that, for a long time after she finished her Ph.D., she kept all the research data she used in writing her dissertation, for (some irrational fear) that someone would come back later and force her to make additional changes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>All good comments &#8211; I will also concur about the advisor. Possibly the most important element in the whole process.</p>


	<p>&#8220;I remember feeling an enormous weight lifted when my dissertation was finally defended and I knew it was over.&#8221;</p>

	<p>You know, I&#8217;ve heard this from a lot of people, but I myself never felt this.  To be sure, there was a sense of relief in finally getting the disseration done and out of the way.  But I still retain some residue of that feeling that it&#8217;s still not quite done.  In fact I seem to always have a reflexive element in my responses when people ask me about it.  &#8220;Aren&#8217;t you glad your finished?&#8221;  &#8220;Yes, but I should have included X and not included Y, not to mention&#8230;.&#8221;</p>

	<p>In short, that feeling of &#8220;never quite being done&#8221; is still with me &#8211; and probably will always be with me to some extent.</p>

	<p>Note:  Amusing anecdote &#8211; my former chair mentioned to me in passing that, for a long time after she finished her Ph.D., she kept all the research data she used in writing her dissertation, for (some irrational fear) that someone would come back later and force her to make additional changes!</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104504</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104504</guid>
		<description>Just to second #36: it *is* serious work if you want to move on promptly and get an academic job, because you have to think about writing publishable papers, presenting at conferences, teaching your own courses as soon as they let you, plus you want to really learn the relevant literatures.  If you just want to enjoy a slacker grad student life you can probably pass your courses and eke out a dissertation with only moderate effort, but even then living on a grad student stipend may get old after a while. (To amplify #34 above, even if you&#039;re getting a stipend, you&#039;re still foregoing the income and savings you would have working a normal job.)

And let&#039;s not mischievously conflate *all* socialization with conformity and abjection, as #24 does.  The work of scholarship is always partly social, via sessions at conferences, comments on papers, collaboration of various kinds, and you have to *learn* how to do this.  This means going to every talk in your department that you can, going to defenses, joining dinners with visiting speakers, beginning to make connections with scholars in your area at other institutions, setting up conference panels.

As a grad student you have all the status of a bum, but the opportunity to change that within a few years.  The counterpart of Tim Burke&#039;s smart observation that people will no longer pat you on the head for getting an A is that you need to start acting like a scholar with your own program of work and not like a student who jumps through hoops held up by others.  Some cynicism is justified.  But I can say from experience that the grad students who are most ear-bendingly cynical, and who attribute the success of others to mere politicking, are usually the ones who don&#039;t get this, or who don&#039;t want to make the effort.  So to go back to our initial theme, figure out who among the more senior grad students are actually making progress, and ask *them* how they do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to second #36: it <strong>is</strong> serious work if you want to move on promptly and get an academic job, because you have to think about writing publishable papers, presenting at conferences, teaching your own courses as soon as they let you, plus you want to really learn the relevant literatures.  If you just want to enjoy a slacker grad student life you can probably pass your courses and eke out a dissertation with only moderate effort, but even then living on a grad student stipend may get old after a while. (To amplify #34 above, even if you&#8217;re getting a stipend, you&#8217;re still foregoing the income and savings you would have working a normal job.)</p>

	<p>And let&#8217;s not mischievously conflate <strong>all</strong> socialization with conformity and abjection, as #24 does.  The work of scholarship is always partly social, via sessions at conferences, comments on papers, collaboration of various kinds, and you have to <strong>learn</strong> how to do this.  This means going to every talk in your department that you can, going to defenses, joining dinners with visiting speakers, beginning to make connections with scholars in your area at other institutions, setting up conference panels.</p>

	<p>As a grad student you have all the status of a bum, but the opportunity to change that within a few years.  The counterpart of Tim Burke&#8217;s smart observation that people will no longer pat you on the head for getting an A is that you need to start acting like a scholar with your own program of work and not like a student who jumps through hoops held up by others.  Some cynicism is justified.  But I can say from experience that the grad students who are most ear-bendingly cynical, and who attribute the success of others to mere politicking, are usually the ones who don&#8217;t get this, or who don&#8217;t want to make the effort.  So to go back to our initial theme, figure out who among the more senior grad students are actually making progress, and ask <strong>them</strong> how they do it.</p>
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		<title>By: steve kyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104465</link>
		<dc:creator>steve kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104465</guid>
		<description>amen to the comment above by rs that &quot;it is never done&quot;  That is why you need an outside interest where it is very clear when it is done.  For example, I used to work on cars - very concrete, and you knew you were done because the car would go.  Now that I am older and own a house I build things onto it. Again, very concrete and you know when you are done.

It is possible to go insane if you are unable to put an end to grad school.  We probably all know people who never ever manage to put that final period on that final sentence.  I remember feeling an enormous weight lifted when my dissertation was finally defended and I knew it was over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>amen to the comment above by rs that &#8220;it is never done&#8221;  That is why you need an outside interest where it is very clear when it is done.  For example, I used to work on cars &#8211; very concrete, and you knew you were done because the car would go.  Now that I am older and own a house I build things onto it. Again, very concrete and you know when you are done.</p>

	<p>It is possible to go insane if you are unable to put an end to grad school.  We probably all know people who never ever manage to put that final period on that final sentence.  I remember feeling an enormous weight lifted when my dissertation was finally defended and I knew it was over.</p>
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		<title>By: RS</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104454</link>
		<dc:creator>RS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104454</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to second/raise the &quot;BS&quot; call on Steve&#039;s post asserting that Grad School is easier than a &quot;real job&quot;. This claim is utter, utter crap. I worked for 5 years prior to Grad School running my own business. I owned a bookstore that was open from 10-8, 6 days a week. I never had a break. I was the owner/proprietor/manager/janitor... and when I wasn&#039;t open I was scrambling around finding stock, attending book-fairs, scouting, etc. It was absolutely exhausting. I probably worked an 80-hour week on average. Now I am in a fully-funded humanities PhD program that doesn&#039;t even require teaching. But it is much harder than running that bookstore ever was. Why? Because the work is _never done_. There are always more articles, books, conference abstracts, etc. etc. etc. to attend to. To be honest, I find the whole line of thinking that Grad School is a break from &quot;real life&quot; just mind-bogglingly dumb. Its all real. It sounds like Steve is mistaking the boredom of cubicle-life for actual work... Sorry this is so short as I have lots more to say, but, unlike Steve apparently, I just don&#039;t have to time to spend writing long posts claiming that Grad School is easy... All that said, I don&#039;t regret my decision to go to Grad School whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d like to second/raise the &#8220;BS&#8221; call on Steve&#8217;s post asserting that Grad School is easier than a &#8220;real job&#8221;. This claim is utter, utter crap. I worked for 5 years prior to Grad School running my own business. I owned a bookstore that was open from 10-8, 6 days a week. I never had a break. I was the owner/proprietor/manager/janitor&#8230; and when I wasn&#8217;t open I was scrambling around finding stock, attending book-fairs, scouting, etc. It was absolutely exhausting. I probably worked an 80-hour week on average. Now I am in a fully-funded humanities PhD program that doesn&#8217;t even require teaching. But it is much harder than running that bookstore ever was. Why? Because the work is <em>never done</em>. There are always more articles, books, conference abstracts, etc. etc. etc. to attend to. To be honest, I find the whole line of thinking that Grad School is a break from &#8220;real life&#8221; just mind-bogglingly dumb. Its all real. It sounds like Steve is mistaking the boredom of cubicle-life for actual work&#8230; Sorry this is so short as I have lots more to say, but, unlike Steve apparently, I just don&#8217;t have to time to spend writing long posts claiming that Grad School is easy&#8230; All that said, I don&#8217;t regret my decision to go to Grad School whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: steve kyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104447</link>
		<dc:creator>steve kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104447</guid>
		<description>I always tell students that picking an advisor is at least as important as picking a spouse.  My wife is more permanent but my advisor had more control over my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always tell students that picking an advisor is at least as important as picking a spouse.  My wife is more permanent but my advisor had more control over my life.</p>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104253</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104253</guid>
		<description>One other bit of advice, but it&#039;s a bit harsh. Only applies to the humanities, as far as I know. 

Don&#039;t ever pay for a Ph.D. In fact, don&#039;t enter a Ph.D. program unless they&#039;re paying you a stipend to do it. Ph.D.s are not worth taking on massive amounts of debt. They&#039;re worth the hardship of living on less than $20K per annum, but not worth debt. 

Not to mention: you&#039;re going to be at an absolutely enormous competitive disadvantage vs. those who have their prefab apartment and ramen noodles paid for. They will write and write while you will work and work.  

If you can&#039;t get into a program that gives you a stipend, rework your application and try again next year. Or else don&#039;t do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One other bit of advice, but it&#8217;s a bit harsh. Only applies to the humanities, as far as I know.</p>

	<p>Don&#8217;t ever pay for a Ph.D. In fact, don&#8217;t enter a Ph.D. program unless they&#8217;re paying you a stipend to do it. Ph.D.s are not worth taking on massive amounts of debt. They&#8217;re worth the hardship of living on less than $20K per annum, but not worth debt.</p>

	<p>Not to mention: you&#8217;re going to be at an absolutely enormous competitive disadvantage vs. those who have their prefab apartment and ramen noodles paid for. They will write and write while you will work and work.</p>

	<p>If you can&#8217;t get into a program that gives you a stipend, rework your application and try again next year. Or else don&#8217;t do it.</p>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104251</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104251</guid>
		<description>Just thought I should mention for the sake of those who are reading this and cringing: 

ass-kissing is not necessarily a pre-req for academic success. The top jobs, in my personal experience, go to those who can think and write (I&#039;m talking humanities here), not to the swarmy... 

The swarmy (pals of the DGS, advisor haunters) get grad fellowships and awards. The smart get the jobs. When you&#039;re one of 200 that&#039;s applying for a position, it&#039;s going to be the work that gets you over the bar. Not the fact that your advisor likesyou. Almost everyone gets a glowing letter... 

I kissed very little ass during grad school and made it through and into a top rate job. 

That said, if you&#039;re completely socially dysfunctional, that might be a problem. No one wants that. That&#039;s where the interview comes in (and it does come in... There are a million stories of the person who nets 9 MLA interviews, yielding zero callbacks...) 

Try for very, very smart and human. But don&#039;t count yourself out if the idea of frantic &quot;networking&quot; grosses you out. I makes me want to gag, and I did fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just thought I should mention for the sake of those who are reading this and cringing:</p>

	<p>ass-kissing is not necessarily a pre-req for academic success. The top jobs, in my personal experience, go to those who can think and write (I&#8217;m talking humanities here), not to the swarmy&#8230;</p>

	<p>The swarmy (pals of the <span class="caps">DGS</span>, advisor haunters) get grad fellowships and awards. The smart get the jobs. When you&#8217;re one of 200 that&#8217;s applying for a position, it&#8217;s going to be the work that gets you over the bar. Not the fact that your advisor likesyou. Almost everyone gets a glowing letter&#8230;</p>

	<p>I kissed very little ass during grad school and made it through and into a top rate job.</p>

	<p>That said, if you&#8217;re completely socially dysfunctional, that might be a problem. No one wants that. That&#8217;s where the interview comes in (and it does come in&#8230; There are a million stories of the person who nets 9 <span class="caps">MLA</span> interviews, yielding zero callbacks&#8230;)</p>

	<p>Try for very, very smart and human. But don&#8217;t count yourself out if the idea of frantic &#8220;networking&#8221; grosses you out. I makes me want to gag, and I did fine.</p>
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		<title>By: agm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104091</link>
		<dc:creator>agm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104091</guid>
		<description>steve, please don&#039;t take this personally, but your first comment is total BS, at least from the physics perspective. we are expected to work many more hours than anyone but CEOs for much less pay, irregardless of whether or not we are shooting for academic jobs. and one&#039;s advisor makes a complete difference in how stressful it is. I sometimes hate my advisor for being an absentee, sometimes I&#039;m glad not to have her breathing down my neck. Other people like/displike their situations similarly, such as the people in the local Nobel Laureate&#039;s lab, where they clock in at 8 and out at 5 (the hours when the secretary is around) but are expected to work many more hours than that and fit anything else in (family, food, commute time, even classes and classwork). There simply isn&#039;t a blanket description short of PhD Comics that covers everyone, because he doesn&#039;t include social sciences/humanities grad school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>steve, please don&#8217;t take this personally, but your first comment is total BS, at least from the physics perspective. we are expected to work many more hours than anyone but CEOs for much less pay, irregardless of whether or not we are shooting for academic jobs. and one&#8217;s advisor makes a complete difference in how stressful it is. I sometimes hate my advisor for being an absentee, sometimes I&#8217;m glad not to have her breathing down my neck. Other people like/displike their situations similarly, such as the people in the local Nobel Laureate&#8217;s lab, where they clock in at 8 and out at 5 (the hours when the secretary is around) but are expected to work many more hours than that and fit anything else in (family, food, commute time, even classes and classwork). There simply isn&#8217;t a blanket description short of PhD Comics that covers everyone, because he doesn&#8217;t include social sciences/humanities grad school.</p>
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		<title>By: a dude somewhere&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; For those of you considering Grad School</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104089</link>
		<dc:creator>a dude somewhere&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; For those of you considering Grad School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104089</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve been there and believe these are a must read if you are considering grad school: Let’s say you’ve already read Tim Burke’s “Should I Go to Grad School?” and pushed on past the short answer. (“No.”) Then it’s time to read Fontana Labs’ Twelve-Step Guide to life while you’re there. Your experience of a graduate program will depend in part on each of (1) The field you’re in, (2) The quality of the program, (3) Your own attributes, (4) The strategy you pursue. Once you go down the chute and find yourself in a particular setting, (1) and (2) are exogenous in the short run, and at the beginning you have no real sense of the social structure of the field anyway. So FL’s advice sensibly emphasizes the difference between undergraduate and graduate education and what that should mean for your approach to it. To boil it down to a one-line characterization: in academic environments, expectations are high and monitoring is low (but decisive when it happens). Many grad-student pathologies spring from a failure to deal with this problem. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] I&#8217;ve been there and believe these are a must read if you are considering grad school: Let&#8217;s say you&#8217;ve already read Tim Burke&#8217;s &#8220;Should I Go to Grad School?&#8221; and pushed on past the short answer. (&#8220;No.&#8221;) Then it&#8217;s time to read Fontana Labs&#8217; Twelve-Step Guide to life while you&#8217;re there. Your experience of a graduate program will depend in part on each of (1) The field you&#8217;re in, (2) The quality of the program, (3) Your own attributes, (4) The strategy you pursue. Once you go down the chute and find yourself in a particular setting, (1) and (2) are exogenous in the short run, and at the beginning you have no real sense of the social structure of the field anyway. So FL&#8217;s advice sensibly emphasizes the difference between undergraduate and graduate education and what that should mean for your approach to it. To boil it down to a one-line characterization: in academic environments, expectations are high and monitoring is low (but decisive when it happens). Many grad-student pathologies spring from a failure to deal with this problem. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104085</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104085</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve worked regular jobs since 1975, and I didn&#039;t go to graduate school because the kinds of ingratiation and networking required seemed so inimical. &quot;Hard&quot; is a pretty fuzzy concept. For me, spending four years bonding with faculty would be impossibly hard. One of the nice things about labor jobs is, or used to be before &quot;Japanese management&quot; took over, that you can minimize your personal investment in the job as long as your work is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve worked regular jobs since 1975, and I didn&#8217;t go to graduate school because the kinds of ingratiation and networking required seemed so inimical. &#8220;Hard&#8221; is a pretty fuzzy concept. For me, spending four years bonding with faculty would be impossibly hard. One of the nice things about labor jobs is, or used to be before &#8220;Japanese management&#8221; took over, that you can minimize your personal investment in the job as long as your work is good.</p>
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		<title>By: sd</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104082</link>
		<dc:creator>sd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104082</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;m an outside observer to all this - I have an MBA but never tried to do an &quot;academic&quot; PhD.  That being said, there is at least one regard in which I think the humanities / social sciences PhD world (and for that matter, law schools) can learn from MBA programs:  Don&#039;t accept anyone right out of undergrad.

1)  PhD programs in the humanities and social sciences are clogged with kids from liberal arts undergrad programs who are scared shitless of the job market and thus see grad school as a way of delaying adulthood.  Forcing everyone to work for 2-3 years between college and grad school would largely take these people out of the applicant pool (they would find that there are  indeed things they can do to make a living with an English degree that don&#039;t involve teaching other people who are getting English degrees) - only those with legitimate talent and a real passion for the field would apply.

2)  God bless a liberal arts undergarduate education - all that lazy, pensive self exploration is good for the soul - but it sure doesn&#039;t prepare someone to be productive, which is what you need to be to finish grad school in a reasonable amount of time.  Spending 2-3 years at a 9-5 (or 9-9) job teaches you how to get shit done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well I&#8217;m an outside observer to all this &#8211; I have an <span class="caps">MBA</span> but never tried to do an &#8220;academic&#8221; PhD.  That being said, there is at least one regard in which I think the humanities / social sciences PhD world (and for that matter, law schools) can learn from <span class="caps">MBA</span> programs:  Don&#8217;t accept anyone right out of undergrad.</p>

	<p>1)  PhD programs in the humanities and social sciences are clogged with kids from liberal arts undergrad programs who are scared shitless of the job market and thus see grad school as a way of delaying adulthood.  Forcing everyone to work for 2-3 years between college and grad school would largely take these people out of the applicant pool (they would find that there are  indeed things they can do to make a living with an English degree that don&#8217;t involve teaching other people who are getting English degrees) &#8211; only those with legitimate talent and a real passion for the field would apply.</p>

	<p>2)  God bless a liberal arts undergarduate education &#8211; all that lazy, pensive self exploration is good for the soul &#8211; but it sure doesn&#8217;t prepare someone to be productive, which is what you need to be to finish grad school in a reasonable amount of time.  Spending 2-3 years at a 9-5 (or 9-9) job teaches you how to get shit done.</p>
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		<title>By: DT</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104080</link>
		<dc:creator>DT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104080</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll second the last response. The single most important decision of your grad school career will be picking your advisor. And not just finding someone who is doing research that you&#039;re interested in. Find one that you are comfortable with, who will actually be around and interested enough to mentor you, who won&#039;t be a prick, who doesn&#039;t just look at his grad students as peons to grind out papers for his CV, etc.

A young professor without tenure is likely to be around the lab a lot more and work directly with you more, which can be valuable. On the other hand, they might put more pressure on you and want you to work more, and also don&#039;t have the same connections.

On the other hand, the more established professors have the connections to help you out later, but may be so busy with outside things that you only see them once a month.

Talk with several professors, and ask them not just about their work, but also about their expectations of grad students. And talk to current grad students of the professors you are interested in working with. Look at their past students--some professors show a pattern of students taking 7+ years to get their doctorate, others get their students out quicker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll second the last response. The single most important decision of your grad school career will be picking your advisor. And not just finding someone who is doing research that you&#8217;re interested in. Find one that you are comfortable with, who will actually be around and interested enough to mentor you, who won&#8217;t be a prick, who doesn&#8217;t just look at his grad students as peons to grind out papers for his CV, etc.</p>

	<p>A young professor without tenure is likely to be around the lab a lot more and work directly with you more, which can be valuable. On the other hand, they might put more pressure on you and want you to work more, and also don&#8217;t have the same connections.</p>

	<p>On the other hand, the more established professors have the connections to help you out later, but may be so busy with outside things that you only see them once a month.</p>

	<p>Talk with several professors, and ask them not just about their work, but also about their expectations of grad students. And talk to current grad students of the professors you are interested in working with. Look at their past students&#8212;some professors show a pattern of students taking 7+ years to get their doctorate, others get their students out quicker.</p>
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		<title>By: kmason</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/comment-page-1/#comment-104073</link>
		<dc:creator>kmason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/09/27/making-a-success-of-grad-school/#comment-104073</guid>
		<description>13. Adviser, adviser, adviser.

Pick one that treats you well (eg., says &quot;take two weeks off&quot;), give you good advise, you want to listen to, and most importantly has a good track record of happy students. A good adviser and you will enjoy it a lot ... a bad one, and you&#039;re better off checking yourself into the insane asylum now.

Just a couple of weeks ago a 4th year committed suicide here, and the only thing I couldn&#039;t fathom was why they didn&#039;t take their crappy adviser with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>13. Adviser, adviser, adviser.</p>

	<p>Pick one that treats you well (eg., says &#8220;take two weeks off&#8221;), give you good advise, you want to listen to, and most importantly has a good track record of happy students. A good adviser and you will enjoy it a lot &#8230; a bad one, and you&#8217;re better off checking yourself into the insane asylum now.</p>

	<p>Just a couple of weeks ago a 4th year committed suicide here, and the only thing I couldn&#8217;t fathom was why they didn&#8217;t take their crappy adviser with them.</p>
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