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	<title>Comments on: Top Public Intellectuals of 1905</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Daverz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111920</link>
		<dc:creator>Daverz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the braineater had gotten to Alfred Russell Wallace by 1905.  A decade later, Conan Doyle would be writing serious books about faeries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the braineater had gotten to Alfred Russell Wallace by 1905.  A decade later, Conan Doyle would be writing serious books about faeries.</p>
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		<title>By: RETARDO</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111346</link>
		<dc:creator>RETARDO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>John Jay Chapman. Brooks Adams. Henry Adams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Jay Chapman. Brooks Adams. Henry Adams.</p>
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		<title>By: S Brennan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111292</link>
		<dc:creator>S Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111292</guid>
		<description>I might have missed it, but Wilber &amp; Orville Wright certainly were original thinkers of the time.  Please remember, their accomplishment came only after they rejected the accepted science of the time in regard to lifting foils.  From their minds imagination, the world they left behind differed significantly from the world they inherited and thusly, they earned their right to be on the list of great thinkers of their time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I might have missed it, but Wilber &#038; Orville Wright certainly were original thinkers of the time.  Please remember, their accomplishment came only after they rejected the accepted science of the time in regard to lifting foils.  From their minds imagination, the world they left behind differed significantly from the world they inherited and thusly, they earned their right to be on the list of great thinkers of their time.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111271</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111271</guid>
		<description>I wonder where these judgments of seldom read come from -- some sense of book sales? assignments in classes? Personal conversation?

What I imagine happens to a figure like Adam Smith - to take Aretino&#039;s example -- is that the reading constituency for him shifts. Where he might have been required reading for a political economist in 1850, he&#039;s required reading for a historian, or a political scientist interested in conservatism, in 2005. And he has a larger lay audience as well -- in fact, I would certainly lay money that more people have read a little Adam Smith than have read, say, a little Thomas Schelling or a little Robert J. Aumann. 

Without locating shifts in the site of the reading, the phrase -- &quot;seldom read&quot; - makes little sense. You could add up the sales figures of all the Prospect intellectuals, and I would bet that they don&#039;t exceed the number of people who have read the Left Behind series. But is that quantitative fact intrinsically interesting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder where these judgments of seldom read come from&#8212;some sense of book sales? assignments in classes? Personal conversation?</p>

	<p>What I imagine happens to a figure like Adam Smith &#8211; to take Aretino&#8217;s example&#8212;is that the reading constituency for him shifts. Where he might have been required reading for a political economist in 1850, he&#8217;s required reading for a historian, or a political scientist interested in conservatism, in 2005. And he has a larger lay audience as well&#8212;in fact, I would certainly lay money that more people have read a little Adam Smith than have read, say, a little Thomas Schelling or a little Robert J. Aumann.</p>

	<p>Without locating shifts in the site of the reading, the phrase&#8212;&#8220;seldom read&#8221; &#8211; makes little sense. You could add up the sales figures of all the Prospect intellectuals, and I would bet that they don&#8217;t exceed the number of people who have read the Left Behind series. But is that quantitative fact intrinsically interesting?</p>
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		<title>By: aretino</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111115</link>
		<dc:creator>aretino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Philosophers and (especially) novelists have a much longer shelf life than journalists and scientists -- particularly natural scientists.  (Perhaps physicists have only a half-life.)

I could see Salman Rushdie still being read in 100 years.  I could see that for Habermas and Eco (as a philosopher), too.  Probably Chomsky as a linguist will have fallen into the situation of Smith as an economist -- a hallowed but seldom-read intellectual ancestor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Philosophers and (especially) novelists have a much longer shelf life than journalists and scientists&#8212;particularly natural scientists.  (Perhaps physicists have only a half-life.)</p>

	<p>I could see Salman Rushdie still being read in 100 years.  I could see that for Habermas and Eco (as a philosopher), too.  Probably Chomsky as a linguist will have fallen into the situation of Smith as an economist&#8212;a hallowed but seldom-read intellectual ancestor.</p>
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		<title>By: aretino</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111113</link>
		<dc:creator>aretino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111113</guid>
		<description>John,

Angell was already a prominent journalist and opinion-maker by 1905 (under his original name, though).  The fame of the Great Illusion didn&#039;t come from the blue.  My understanding is that it had such a big impact because he was already well known and credible.  That&#039;s why I put him up for a.  

He isn&#039;t talked about much today, which is why I didn&#039;t put him up for b.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John,</p>

	<p>Angell was already a prominent journalist and opinion-maker by 1905 (under his original name, though).  The fame of the Great Illusion didn&#8217;t come from the blue.  My understanding is that it had such a big impact because he was already well known and credible.  That&#8217;s why I put him up for a.</p>

	<p>He isn&#8217;t talked about much today, which is why I didn&#8217;t put him up for b.</p>
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		<title>By: Grandma Lausch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111100</link>
		<dc:creator>Grandma Lausch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111100</guid>
		<description>With hindsight, Russia turned out too important for the 20th century to be represented just by Tolstoy, Kropotkin and Trotzky. How about Gregory Plekhanov, the father of Russian Marxism, and his pupil Lenin. Also, from the same stable, komissars&#039; own Germaine Greer - the proto-feminist Alexandra Kollontai</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>With hindsight, Russia turned out too important for the 20th century to be represented just by Tolstoy, Kropotkin and Trotzky. How about Gregory Plekhanov, the father of Russian Marxism, and his pupil Lenin. Also, from the same stable, komissars&#8217; own Germaine Greer &#8211; the proto-feminist Alexandra Kollontai</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111099</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Erskine Childers (&quot;the riddle of the sands&quot;) was extremely influential, although forgotten now.

Under category b, I&#039;m surprised that Catherine Liu dismisses Sun Yatsen so easily. It&#039;s a bit of a mess, but his theory of chinese nationalism was in many senses extremely influential, and he&#039;s certainly not forgotten.

I&#039;m ignorant on this, but surely if we&#039;re after global influence there must be some Japanese intellectuals who were formulating nationalist theories that ended up very influential...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Erskine Childers (&#8220;the riddle of the sands&#8221;) was extremely influential, although forgotten now.</p>

	<p>Under category b, I&#8217;m surprised that Catherine Liu dismisses Sun Yatsen so easily. It&#8217;s a bit of a mess, but his theory of chinese nationalism was in many senses extremely influential, and he&#8217;s certainly not forgotten.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m ignorant on this, but surely if we&#8217;re after global influence there must be some Japanese intellectuals who were formulating nationalist theories that ended up very influential&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111098</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111098</guid>
		<description>26 &lt;i&gt;I guess we could start with Plato and work our way forward on that one!&lt;/i&gt;

But that&#039;s typically what I meant, I don&#039;t know about where you live Chris, but around me, Plato is &quot;widely read&quot; only among students in philosophy. Apart from them, I doubt you can find more than 1% of people who have read more than one work of him. Likewise, I am convinced that student in linguistics (and computer science) will read Chomsky in 2105. 

I would say the only intellectual widely read in France long after his death is Voltaire, and even him is kept alive mostly by highschool literature classes.

Oh, and if I had to vote for 1905, I would vote for Poincarre on the basis of his influence in several different fields : he was a major reference in mathematics, physics and philosophy at the time.

Z</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>26 <i>I guess we could start with Plato and work our way forward on that one!</i></p>

	<p>But that&#8217;s typically what I meant, I don&#8217;t know about where you live Chris, but around me, Plato is &#8220;widely read&#8221; only among students in philosophy. Apart from them, I doubt you can find more than 1% of people who have read more than one work of him. Likewise, I am convinced that student in linguistics (and computer science) will read Chomsky in 2105.</p>

	<p>I would say the only intellectual widely read in France long after his death is Voltaire, and even him is kept alive mostly by highschool literature classes.</p>

	<p>Oh, and if I had to vote for 1905, I would vote for Poincarre on the basis of his influence in several different fields : he was a major reference in mathematics, physics and philosophy at the time.</p>

	<p>Z</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111088</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111088</guid>
		<description>Responding to aretino, I&#039;ll put Norman Angell up for (b), though it&#039;s a bit premature (&lt;i&gt;The Great Illusion&lt;/i&gt; was only published in 1909.

Angell was right and this is only now being recognised. If we don&#039;t blow ourselves up in the meantime, he&#039;ll be in the list for 2105.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Responding to aretino, I&#8217;ll put Norman Angell up for (b), though it&#8217;s a bit premature (<i>The Great Illusion</i> was only published in 1909.</p>

	<p>Angell was right and this is only now being recognised. If we don&#8217;t blow ourselves up in the meantime, he&#8217;ll be in the list for 2105.</p>
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		<title>By: larry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111083</link>
		<dc:creator>larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111083</guid>
		<description>And John Muir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And John Muir.</p>
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		<title>By: larry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111082</link>
		<dc:creator>larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111082</guid>
		<description>Oh, yah, and Herman Hesse, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, yah, and Herman Hesse, too.</p>
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		<title>By: larry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111080</link>
		<dc:creator>larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111080</guid>
		<description>D. H. Lawrence was close to being published in 1905. If you are going to exclude the recently dead, you should at least get to include the ready to blossom.

As for current intellectuals, I nominate Jane Jacobs, author of &quot;The Death and Life of Great American Cities&quot; and &quot;Dark Age Ahead.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>D. H. Lawrence was close to being published in 1905. If you are going to exclude the recently dead, you should at least get to include the ready to blossom.</p>

	<p>As for current intellectuals, I nominate Jane Jacobs, author of &#8220;The Death and Life of Great American Cities&#8221; and &#8220;Dark Age Ahead.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: fyreflye</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-111017</link>
		<dc:creator>fyreflye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-111017</guid>
		<description>If we&#039;re actually considering composers and artists, of those working in 1905 Picasso and Schoenberg were right on the brink of becoming the most influential figures in their fields for the remainder of the 20th Century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If we&#8217;re actually considering composers and artists, of those working in 1905 Picasso and Schoenberg were right on the brink of becoming the most influential figures in their fields for the remainder of the 20th Century.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Edelstein</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/comment-page-2/#comment-110971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Edelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/17/top-public-intellectuals-of-1905/#comment-110971</guid>
		<description>Saad Zaghloul for the non-anglocentric list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Saad Zaghloul for the non-anglocentric list.</p>
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