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	<title>Comments on: Aberrations, bastardizations and cabals</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: IJ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-112670</link>
		<dc:creator>IJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-112670</guid>
		<description>Now then, what are the lessons for the UK?
 
A clue comes from the speech invited by the New America Foundation: &quot;we need a system of checks and balances and institutional fabric that can withstand anybody, or at least nearly so.&quot;

It seems that Wall Street and the private sector generally are &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/setser/104313/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;taking issue&lt;/a&gt; with key foreign policy decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Now then, what are the lessons for the UK?</p>

	<p>A clue comes from the speech invited by the New America Foundation: &#8220;we need a system of checks and balances and institutional fabric that can withstand anybody, or at least nearly so.&#8221;</p>

	<p>It seems that Wall Street and the private sector generally are <a HREF="http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/setser/104313/" rel="nofollow">taking issue</a> with key foreign policy decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-112306</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-112306</guid>
		<description>&quot;George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) JFK&quot;: given the quasi-religous veneration that you guys show for your founders, I wouldn&#039;t dare criticise some of these names. Nor would I choose to criticise the mention of Lincoln, nor even Teddy.  But WW and FDR seem to me to be &quot;great&quot; mainly in the sense of doing great harm, and the mention of JFK is just risible.  What in heaven&#039;s name did he ever do that could put him in contention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) <span class="caps">JFK</span>&#8221;: given the quasi-religous veneration that you guys show for your founders, I wouldn&#8217;t dare criticise some of these names. Nor would I choose to criticise the mention of Lincoln, nor even Teddy.  But WW and <span class="caps">FDR</span> seem to me to be &#8220;great&#8221; mainly in the sense of doing great harm, and the mention of <span class="caps">JFK</span> is just risible.  What in heaven&#8217;s name did he ever do that could put him in contention?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-112180</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-112180</guid>
		<description>And this jackass is just now speaking out?  Having stayed on the inside for four years, with his trap shut, right through the election that re-installed this dangerous &quot;cabal&quot;?  And all the time &quot;loyal soldier&quot; Colin&#039;s loyal retainer&#8212;that&#039;s Colin Powell, whose loyalty pretty much begins and ends with his own ass.  Colin Powell, whom the good colonel aided and abetted in his attempt to bamboozle the world about Iraqi WMDs in front of the Security Council.

He was on the inside while they slimed Joe Wilson, and Richard Clarke, and said nothing.  Screw him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And this jackass is just now speaking out?  Having stayed on the inside for four years, with his trap shut, right through the election that re-installed this dangerous &#8220;cabal&#8221;?  And all the time &#8220;loyal soldier&#8221; Colin&#8217;s loyal retainer&mdash;that&#8217;s Colin Powell, whose loyalty pretty much begins and ends with his own ass.  Colin Powell, whom the good colonel aided and abetted in his attempt to bamboozle the world about Iraqi WMDs in front of the Security Council.</p>

	<p>He was on the inside while they slimed Joe Wilson, and Richard Clarke, and said nothing.  Screw him.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-112174</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-112174</guid>
		<description>One major point of the speech is that the State department, the NSC, the legislative branch and the rest of the bureaucracy should be counterweight to the DOD and military-industrial complex.

He makes the point that the cold war helped to make policy important above just arms production.

If you assume that the purpose of the military-industrial complex is to sell defense products and services, the end of the cold war was a challenge and an opportunity. The challenge to keep sales high and the opportunity was less &quot;adult supervision&quot; from the fear of conflict with the USSR.

The NSC staff has been a pretty small in-bred group over the years with a tension between DOD and State.  A former DOD Secretary as VP was a two-fer for the defense people.

The bottom line is that despite the wasted money and lives, there hasn&#039;t been anything to replace the &quot;cold war fear&quot; that gave power to policy makers instead of arms makers.

The bad news is that this means things have to get a lot worse before they would get better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One major point of the speech is that the State department, the <span class="caps">NSC</span>, the legislative branch and the rest of the bureaucracy should be counterweight to the <span class="caps">DOD</span> and military-industrial complex.</p>

	<p>He makes the point that the cold war helped to make policy important above just arms production.</p>

	<p>If you assume that the purpose of the military-industrial complex is to sell defense products and services, the end of the cold war was a challenge and an opportunity. The challenge to keep sales high and the opportunity was less &#8220;adult supervision&#8221; from the fear of conflict with the <span class="caps">USSR</span>.</p>

	<p>The <span class="caps">NSC</span> staff has been a pretty small in-bred group over the years with a tension between <span class="caps">DOD</span> and State.  A former <span class="caps">DOD </span>Secretary as VP was a two-fer for the defense people.</p>

	<p>The bottom line is that despite the wasted money and lives, there hasn&#8217;t been anything to replace the &#8220;cold war fear&#8221; that gave power to policy makers instead of arms makers.</p>

	<p>The bad news is that this means things have to get a lot worse before they would get better.</p>
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		<title>By: crayz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111994</link>
		<dc:creator>crayz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111994</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Daniel&lt;/b&gt; - And Wilkerson&#039;s point is that the other 150 years gives ample time to royally screw up the country and the world if there aren&#039;t checks on the power of the executive and a transparency and inclusiveness in the decision making process

Look at how much has been ruined in just five years of the current presidency. You can&#039;t count on genius</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>Daniel</b> &#8211; And Wilkerson&#8217;s point is that the other 150 years gives ample time to royally screw up the country and the world if there aren&#8217;t checks on the power of the executive and a transparency and inclusiveness in the decision making process</p>

	<p>Look at how much has been ruined in just five years of the current presidency. You can&#8217;t count on genius</p>
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		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111974</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111974</guid>
		<description>Please, not Wilson.  His promotion of ethnic nationalism was possibly the worst idea that the US has EVER promoted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Please, not Wilson.  His promotion of ethnic nationalism was possibly the worst idea that the US has <span class="caps">EVER</span> promoted.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111955</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111955</guid>
		<description>And Wilson might have been smart and sympathetic, but as a leader, he was a rank failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And Wilson might have been smart and sympathetic, but as a leader, he was a rank failure.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111945</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111945</guid>
		<description>JFK&#039;s a brilliant leader? About as brilliant as Bush II.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">JFK</span>&#8217;s a brilliant leader? About as brilliant as Bush II.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111944</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111944</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You listed 8 people (“You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions”) over a period of 2 centuries&lt;/i&gt;

But that&#039;s roughly 50 years of presidency.  It seems to me as if America&#039;s been run by a genius roughly one year in four, which doesn&#039;t seem like a bad average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>You listed 8 people (&#8220;You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions&#8221;) over a period of 2 centuries</i></p>

	<p>But that&#8217;s roughly 50 years of presidency.  It seems to me as if America&#8217;s been run by a genius roughly one year in four, which doesn&#8217;t seem like a bad average.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111943</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) JFK surely don’t compare too unfavorably to a similar list put forward by any other country over a comparable period.&lt;/em&gt;

Making the point you&#039;re opposed to. You listed 8 people (&quot;You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions&quot;) over a period of 2 centuries. That other countries have a similar shortage of brilliance reinforces the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) <span class="caps">JFK</span> surely don&#8217;t compare too unfavorably to a similar list put forward by any other country over a comparable period.</em></p>

	<p>Making the point you&#8217;re opposed to. You listed 8 people (&#8220;You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions&#8221;) over a period of 2 centuries. That other countries have a similar shortage of brilliance reinforces the point.</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111933</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111933</guid>
		<description>&quot;How often does America get brilliant leaders?&quot;

If by &quot;brilliant&quot; you mean that they read Wittgenstein at night, then not very often.

But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) JFK surely don&#039;t compare too unfavorably to a similar list put forward by any other country over a comparable period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;How often does America get brilliant leaders?&#8221;</p>

	<p>If by &#8220;brilliant&#8221; you mean that they read Wittgenstein at night, then not very often.</p>

	<p>But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and (maybe) <span class="caps">JFK</span> surely don&#8217;t compare too unfavorably to a similar list put forward by any other country over a comparable period.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna in Cairo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111919</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna in Cairo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111919</guid>
		<description>&quot;Their cleverness created more ill will than the actual war.&quot;

Well, no.  Yes, it created a hell of a lot of ill will.  Particularly when Albright went on national TV and said that it was &quot;worth it.&quot;  But the Bush II war has sent the cart of Muslim opinion about US foreign policy hurtling downward ever faster and deeper.  I think we&#039;re in Dante&#039;s lowest territories now.

Also, though I do think the expression is very angry and sometimes a bit too emphatic for my taste, it is not incoherent. But I used to be a State Department flack so I got very used to hearing careerist grumbling about political machinations of appointees and high level officials (though not in public, and not this vociferous).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Their cleverness created more ill will than the actual war.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Well, no.  Yes, it created a hell of a lot of ill will.  Particularly when Albright went on national TV and said that it was &#8220;worth it.&#8221;  But the Bush II war has sent the cart of Muslim opinion about US foreign policy hurtling downward ever faster and deeper.  I think we&#8217;re in Dante&#8217;s lowest territories now.</p>

	<p>Also, though I do think the expression is very angry and sometimes a bit too emphatic for my taste, it is not incoherent. But I used to be a State Department flack so I got very used to hearing careerist grumbling about political machinations of appointees and high level officials (though not in public, and not this vociferous).</p>
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		<title>By: tvd</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111872</link>
		<dc:creator>tvd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111872</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...he is given carte blanche to tell the State Department to go screw themselves in a closet somewhere.&lt;/i&gt;

Cool.  Madeleine Albright and State killed half a million Iraqi women and children with the sanctions.

(Probably between zero and 20,000, but that&#039;s not the Muslim world&#039;s perception.  Their cleverness created more ill will than the actual war.  At least outside the US and Europe.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8230;he is given carte blanche to tell the State Department to go screw themselves in a closet somewhere.</i></p>

	<p>Cool.  Madeleine Albright and State killed half a million Iraqi women and children with the sanctions.</p>

	<p>(Probably between zero and 20,000, but that&#8217;s not the Muslim world&#8217;s perception.  Their cleverness created more ill will than the actual war.  At least outside the US and Europe.)</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111858</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111858</guid>
		<description>sweet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>sweet</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/abberations-bastardizations-and-cabals/comment-page-1/#comment-111803</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3943#comment-111803</guid>
		<description>I get the feeling that, in places, the speech uses a kind of shorthand that makes sense if you&#039;ve been in the White House loop.

&lt;i&gt;I can’t help but look a little bit askance at his thesis that it’s dangerous to our democracy when the elected head of government makes policy decisions instead of deferring to the career bureaucracy.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, I can, and not just because of &lt;i&gt;Yes, Minister&lt;/i&gt;. He basically invokes &lt;a href=&quot;http://oll.libertyfund.org/Texts/LFBooks/Bryce0057/AmericanCommonwealth/0004-01_Bk.html#hd_lf004.1.head.026&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bryce&#039;s thesis&lt;/a&gt; that the American political system makes it easier for mediocre individuals to be elected president than those who have talent and experience; and that to some extent, the system was built that way, so that individual capability would never slide into demagoguery. (Although the US and the role of the presidency has changed drastically since Bryce&#039;s time, his observations remain pretty relevant.) Anyway, as Wilkerson says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t think even his critics would have argued that FDR wasn’t a brilliant politician and a brilliant leader. But let’s think about it for a moment. If you’re one of the framers. How often does America get brilliant leaders? Put them down on paper. I can count them myself on one hand.

You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions. I prefer one hand. So we need a system of checks and balances and institutional fabric that can withstand anybody, or at least nearly so. You laugh, but I’m not trying to solicit your laughter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In that context, I suppose Wilkerson&#039;s chief complaint is that Cheney really revolutionised an office (and a staff) that, both constitutionally and historically, isn&#039;t meant to be worth a bucket of spit, and thus short-circuited both the intentions of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cwr/17603.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1947 Act&lt;/a&gt; and the notion that the other branches would take up the slack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I get the feeling that, in places, the speech uses a kind of shorthand that makes sense if you&#8217;ve been in the White House loop.</p>

	<p><i>I can&#8217;t help but look a little bit askance at his thesis that it&#8217;s dangerous to our democracy when the elected head of government makes policy decisions instead of deferring to the career bureaucracy.</i></p>

	<p>Oh, I can, and not just because of <i>Yes, Minister</i>. He basically invokes <a href="http://oll.libertyfund.org/Texts/LFBooks/Bryce0057/AmericanCommonwealth/0004-01_Bk.html#hd_lf004.1.head.026" rel="nofollow">Bryce&#8217;s thesis</a> that the American political system makes it easier for mediocre individuals to be elected president than those who have talent and experience; and that to some extent, the system was built that way, so that individual capability would never slide into demagoguery. (Although the US and the role of the presidency has changed drastically since Bryce&#8217;s time, his observations remain pretty relevant.) Anyway, as Wilkerson says:</p>

	<p><blockquote>I don&#8217;t think even his critics would have argued that <span class="caps">FDR</span> wasn&#8217;t a brilliant politician and a brilliant leader. But let&#8217;s think about it for a moment. If you&#8217;re one of the framers. How often does America get brilliant leaders? Put them down on paper. I can count them myself on one hand.</blockquote></p>

	<p>You can perhaps count them on 2 hands and make persuasive arguments for the additions. I prefer one hand. So we need a system of checks and balances and institutional fabric that can withstand anybody, or at least nearly so. You laugh, but I&#8217;m not trying to solicit your laughter.</p>

	<p>In that context, I suppose Wilkerson&#8217;s chief complaint is that Cheney really revolutionised an office (and a staff) that, both constitutionally and historically, isn&#8217;t meant to be worth a bucket of spit, and thus short-circuited both the intentions of the <a href="http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cwr/17603.htm" rel="nofollow">1947 Act</a> and the notion that the other branches would take up the slack.</p>
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