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	<title>Comments on: Compelling Explanations</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:14:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: russell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112364</link>
		<dc:creator>russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112364</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What is fundamentally crazy about the libertarian idea that the best way to accomdate these kinds of conflicts in a heterogeneous society is to offer choices and alternatives rather than engage in fight-to-the-death battles over one-size-fits-all public education?&lt;/i&gt;

For all practical purposes, it seems very difficult to distinguish between libertarian ideas about education and pomo relativistic nonsense about truth.  Anything goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>What is fundamentally crazy about the libertarian idea that the best way to accomdate these kinds of conflicts in a heterogeneous society is to offer choices and alternatives rather than engage in fight-to-the-death battles over one-size-fits-all public education?</i></p>

	<p>For all practical purposes, it seems very difficult to distinguish between libertarian ideas about education and pomo relativistic nonsense about truth.  Anything goes.</p>
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		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112362</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112362</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;slocum&lt;/b&gt; wrote, &lt;i&gt;If they could send their kids to schools that included ID (or taught only ID or even ‘young earth creationism’) without having to pay out of pocket, they might be satisfied. &lt;/i&gt;

LOL!  You&#039;re kidding, right?  The Christian Right will be &quot;satisfied&quot; if we merely compromise with them on a handful of issues?

Please (re)read Krugman&#039;s introduction to his &lt;i&gt;The Great Unraveling&lt;/i&gt;.  The Right in the US is a &quot;revolutionary power,&quot; as Kissinger put it, and it ain&#039;t gonna compromise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>slocum</b> wrote, <i>If they could send their kids to schools that included <span class="caps">ID </span>(or taught only ID or even &#8216;young earth creationism&#8217;) without having to pay out of pocket, they might be satisfied. </i></p>

	<p><span class="caps">LOL</span>!  You&#8217;re kidding, right?  The Christian Right will be &#8220;satisfied&#8221; if we merely compromise with them on a handful of issues?</p>

	<p>Please (re)read Krugman&#8217;s introduction to his <i>The Great Unraveling</i>.  The Right in the US is a &#8220;revolutionary power,&#8221; as Kissinger put it, and it ain&#8217;t gonna compromise.</p>
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		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112361</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112361</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;abb1&lt;/b&gt; wrote,
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The Nazis, for example, had eugenics – is it not science? – as a source for their official forced euthanasia policies. The Soviets too had their official science for turning rivers around and destroying environment. I’ll say: on the case by case basis.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But those aren&#039;t merely examples of descriptive (positive) science, but rather normative conclusions based on (putatively) descriptive science.

Science can &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; give answers to normative questions.  The closest it can come is to give evidence for putative claims as to human nature, and from there you can try to get to normative claims, though only by committing the naturalistic fallacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>abb1</b> wrote,<br />
<blockquote><br />
The Nazis, for example, had eugenics &#8211; is it not science? &#8211; as a source for their official forced euthanasia policies. The Soviets too had their official science for turning rivers around and destroying environment. I&#8217;ll say: on the case by case basis.<br />
</blockquote></p>

	<p>But those aren&#8217;t merely examples of descriptive (positive) science, but rather normative conclusions based on (putatively) descriptive science.</p>

	<p>Science can <i>never</i> give answers to normative questions.  The closest it can come is to give evidence for putative claims as to human nature, and from there you can try to get to normative claims, though only by committing the naturalistic fallacy.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: liberal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112360</link>
		<dc:creator>liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112360</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;slocum&lt;/b&gt; wrote, &lt;i&gt;If fundamentalists were free to send their kids to schools of their choice (without paying twice)...&lt;/i&gt;

If that&#039;s &quot;paying twice,&quot; what about people with no kids who have to &quot;pay once&quot;?

&lt;i&gt;The fundamentalists seem pretty willing to attend their churches without bothering the rest of us &lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, sure.  Aside from wanting to outlaw abortion, prevent passage of laws permitting homosexuals to marry, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>slocum</b> wrote, <i>If fundamentalists were free to send their kids to schools of their choice (without paying twice)&#8230;</i></p>

	<p>If that&#8217;s &#8220;paying twice,&#8221; what about people with no kids who have to &#8220;pay once&#8221;?</p>

	<p><i>The fundamentalists seem pretty willing to attend their churches without bothering the rest of us </i></p>

	<p>Yeah, sure.  Aside from wanting to outlaw abortion, prevent passage of laws permitting homosexuals to marry, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112203</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112203</guid>
		<description>Given a representative government, does the citizenry have the right to decide what is taught as part of public education?  This seems to be the underlying question.  In the US as long as what is taught does not conflict with the Constitution, anything can be established as part of a public curriculum.  The truth of an idea is, at best, an incidental concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Given a representative government, does the citizenry have the right to decide what is taught as part of public education?  This seems to be the underlying question.  In the US as long as what is taught does not conflict with the Constitution, anything can be established as part of a public curriculum.  The truth of an idea is, at best, an incidental concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Yomtov</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-112030</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Yomtov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-112030</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That’s not the logical conclusion of his argument. The logical conclusion is that a voucher based system can accomodate schools that teach all kinds of stuff. That’s different, yes?&lt;/i&gt;

No. 

If schools can teach &quot;all kinds of stuff&quot; then there is nothing they absolutely have to teach. Whatever you may want them to teach,  there is some &quot;kind of stuff&quot; that differs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That&#8217;s not the logical conclusion of his argument. The logical conclusion is that a voucher based system can accomodate schools that teach all kinds of stuff. That&#8217;s different, yes?</i></p>

	<p>No.</p>

	<p>If schools can teach &#8220;all kinds of stuff&#8221; then there is nothing they absolutely have to teach. Whatever you may want them to teach,  there is some &#8220;kind of stuff&#8221; that differs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Osner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111950</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Osner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111950</guid>
		<description>The only reason anybody would smoke the Gravity Bong is that they&#039;ve never tried/don&#039;t know about the Blender Bong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The only reason anybody would smoke the Gravity Bong is that they&#8217;ve never tried/don&#8217;t know about the Blender Bong.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111949</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111949</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t think the Popperites would have any trouble with saying that astrological assertions are potentially scientific, but false.&lt;/i&gt;

That would be the consistent way of dealing with it (although obviously, you wouldn&#039;t be able to make this as an authoritative universally quantified statement about astrological statements, because Popperian epistemology doesn&#039;t really allow for that sort of thing).  But in fact, most common-or-garden Popperites, with unfortunate amounts of support from the weakest bits of LoSD, tend to retreat into empirically false statements about astrology, claiming that the vague nonspecific predictions in newspaper columns are all that astrologers ever do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I don&#8217;t think the Popperites would have any trouble with saying that astrological assertions are potentially scientific, but false.</i></p>

	<p>That would be the consistent way of dealing with it (although obviously, you wouldn&#8217;t be able to make this as an authoritative universally quantified statement about astrological statements, because Popperian epistemology doesn&#8217;t really allow for that sort of thing).  But in fact, most common-or-garden Popperites, with unfortunate amounts of support from the weakest bits of LoSD, tend to retreat into empirically false statements about astrology, claiming that the vague nonspecific predictions in newspaper columns are all that astrologers ever do.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111791</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111791</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;You&#039;ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes" rel="nofollow">&#8220;You&#8217;ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know&#8230; morons.&#8221;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111786</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111786</guid>
		<description>sorry, fixed. also, I agree with jl we didn&#039;t focus enough on the gravity bong in this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>sorry, fixed. also, I agree with jl we didn&#8217;t focus enough on the gravity bong in this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: KCinDC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111784</link>
		<dc:creator>KCinDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111784</guid>
		<description>I think the problem is that there&#039;s a &lt;/ol&gt; at the end of comment 53 that&#039;s closed off the &lt;ol&gt; that the comments are in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the problem is that there&#8217;s a  at the end of comment 53 that&#8217;s closed off the <ol> that the comments are in.</ol></p>
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		<title>By: Jack Lecou</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111783</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Lecou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111783</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I give up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Interesting. I give up.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jack Lecou</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111782</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Lecou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111782</guid>
		<description>Or rather: 
move &lt;code&gt;&lt;/code&gt; back inside the main &lt;code&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Or rather:<br />
move <code></code> back inside the main <code>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</code></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jack Lecou</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111781</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Lecou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111781</guid>
		<description>There are some out of order close tags on #53. If anyone out there has the power to do so, moving the last &lt;code&gt;&amp;#60/li&amp;#62&lt;/code&gt; back inside the main &lt;code&gt;&amp;#60blockquote&amp;#62&lt;/code&gt; would probably fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are some out of order close tags on #53. If anyone out there has the power to do so, moving the last <code>&amp;#60/li&amp;#62</code> back inside the main <code>&amp;#60blockquote&amp;#62</code> would probably fix it.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JL</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-111778</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/19/compelling-explanations-2/#comment-111778</guid>
		<description>The lesson you all should draw from this discussion is that the gravity bong rocks.  The best way to get the smoke into the system.  Just remember to clean it and change the water regularly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The lesson you all should draw from this discussion is that the gravity bong rocks.  The best way to get the smoke into the system.  Just remember to clean it and change the water regularly.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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