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	<title>Comments on: The falcon cannot hear the falconer</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-113638</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-113638</guid>
		<description>&#039;Huge majority of Iraqis want coalition to go 

Ned Temko, chief political correspondent
Sunday October 23, 2005
The Observer 


The government has been dealt an embarrassing double blow in its battle to convince the public it is beating insurgency in Iraq and the threat of terrorism at home, according to confidential reports leaked to today&#039;s newspapers.
One claimed nearly half of all Iraqis sympathised with violent attacks against British and US coalition troops; another said that at home, Tony Blair&#039;s high-profile strategy to counter the terrorist threat was proving disjointed and ineffective.


Downing Street, while saying it would not comment on &#039;allegedly leaked reports&#039;, told The Observer last night that Britain remained firm in its commitment to stay in Iraq until the elected government felt it was ready to take over security responsibilities.
The figures on Iraqis&#039; views about attacks on coalition troops came from a nationwide opinion survey, commissioned by the Ministry of Defence and leaked to the Sunday Telegraph

&lt;b&gt;According to the report, fewer than one in 100 respondents felt the presence of American, British and other allied troops was improving security in the country. &lt;/b&gt;

Forty-five per cent countrywide were said to believe that the attacks on the troops were justified - a figure that rose to 65 per cent in the Maysan, one of the provinces policed by the British.

 &lt;i&gt;No fewer than 82 per cent, according to the report, declared themselves &#039;strongly opposed&#039; to the presence of coalition troops.&lt;/i&gt;

The findings prompted the Conservative shadow defence minister, Andrew Robathan, to call for a review of Britain&#039;s role in the country.

&#039;I am not advocating a pullout,&#039; he emphasised. &#039;But if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people, then we have to ask the question &quot;What are we doing there?&quot;&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;Huge majority of Iraqis want coalition to go</p>

	<p>Ned Temko, chief political correspondent<br />
Sunday October 23, 2005<br />
The Observer</p>


	<p>The government has been dealt an embarrassing double blow in its battle to convince the public it is beating insurgency in Iraq and the threat of terrorism at home, according to confidential reports leaked to today&#8217;s newspapers.<br />
One claimed nearly half of all Iraqis sympathised with violent attacks against British and US coalition troops; another said that at home, Tony Blair&#8217;s high-profile strategy to counter the terrorist threat was proving disjointed and ineffective.</p>


	<p>Downing Street, while saying it would not comment on &#8216;allegedly leaked reports&#8217;, told The Observer last night that Britain remained firm in its commitment to stay in Iraq until the elected government felt it was ready to take over security responsibilities.<br />
The figures on Iraqis&#8217; views about attacks on coalition troops came from a nationwide opinion survey, commissioned by the Ministry of Defence and leaked to the Sunday Telegraph</p>

	<p><b>According to the report, fewer than one in 100 respondents felt the presence of American, British and other allied troops was improving security in the country. </b></p>

	<p>Forty-five per cent countrywide were said to believe that the attacks on the troops were justified &#8211; a figure that rose to 65 per cent in the Maysan, one of the provinces policed by the British.</p>

	<p><i>No fewer than 82 per cent, according to the report, declared themselves &#8216;strongly opposed&#8217; to the presence of coalition troops.</i></p>

	<p>The findings prompted the Conservative shadow defence minister, Andrew Robathan, to call for a review of Britain&#8217;s role in the country.</p>

	<p>&#8216;I am not advocating a pullout,&#8217; he emphasised. &#8216;But if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people, then we have to ask the question &#8220;What are we doing there?&#8221;&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-113094</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-113094</guid>
		<description>Et tu, Brute? Bummer. Hektor Bim&#039;s rebuke eariler today was shocking enough, and now this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Et tu, Brute? Bummer. Hektor Bim&#8217;s rebuke eariler today was shocking enough, and now this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Walt Pohl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-113017</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Pohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-113017</guid>
		<description>Dan: Everyone else ignores abb1.  I suggest you do likewise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dan: Everyone else ignores abb1.  I suggest you do likewise.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-113009</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-113009</guid>
		<description>Talking about forms of intervention... Recently, as part of the new familiarity between Libya and Tony Blair, the British made the uber-friendly gesture of inviting Qadaffi&#039;s reps to the DSEI, the biggest arms fair in Europe. France, meanwhile, is supposedly competing to build Qadaffi more jet fighters. Now, here is a slow motion mass murder before our eyes, and intervention, here, would be as simple as simply saying no to the greediest impulses in the national economy. Nobody following Qadaffi&#039;s influence on liberia, chad, sierra leone, etc., can doubt that it is highly malign. The mass murdering despots who have descended on the West African coastal countries have consistently been trained in Libya. So how about intervening in our own economies and pulling the plug on this source of blood money? Small steps, as they say in AA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Talking about forms of intervention&#8230; Recently, as part of the new familiarity between Libya and Tony Blair, the British made the uber-friendly gesture of inviting Qadaffi&#8217;s reps to the <span class="caps">DSEI</span>, the biggest arms fair in Europe. France, meanwhile, is supposedly competing to build Qadaffi more jet fighters. Now, here is a slow motion mass murder before our eyes, and intervention, here, would be as simple as simply saying no to the greediest impulses in the national economy. Nobody following Qadaffi&#8217;s influence on liberia, chad, sierra leone, etc., can doubt that it is highly malign. The mass murdering despots who have descended on the West African coastal countries have consistently been trained in Libya. So how about intervening in our own economies and pulling the plug on this source of blood money? Small steps, as they say in AA</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-113006</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-113006</guid>
		<description>OK, Soru, you tell me: why didn&#039;t thousands of national guard troops move into LA with their machine-guns blazing when the riots broke out in 1992? Why did SWAT teams were wating for 6 hours before entering the Columbine school in 1999? Did they know what 2 + 2 is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, Soru, you tell me: why didn&#8217;t thousands of national guard troops move into LA with their machine-guns blazing when the riots broke out in 1992? Why did <span class="caps">SWAT</span> teams were wating for 6 hours before entering the Columbine school in 1999? Did they know what 2 + 2 is?</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112885</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112885</guid>
		<description>This seems to me germaine to much of the above: &lt;a href=&quot;http://newleftreview.net/Issue34.asp?Article=05&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; SLAVOJ ŽIŽEK AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS&lt;/a&gt;. Here&#039;s a blurb to give you a sense of the thing:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Alibi for militarist interventions, sacralization for the tyranny of the market, ideological foundation for the fundamentalism of the politically correct: can the ‘symbolic fiction’ of universal rights be recuperated for the progressive politicization of actual socio-economic relations?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was kind of hoping one of the esteemed members of this here blog would at some point do a post on this, but it seems to have gone unoticed (perhaps deservedly so?). I don&#039;t agree with much of the essay, well if I&#039;m understanding it correctly which  given the high academic prose style I&#039;m not sure I am, but it is ultimately worth reading. I think...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This seems to me germaine to much of the above: <a href="http://newleftreview.net/Issue34.asp?Article=05" rel="nofollow"> SLAVOJ ŽIŽEK <span class="caps">AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS</span></a>. Here&#8217;s a blurb to give you a sense of the thing:<br />
<blockquote>Alibi for militarist interventions, sacralization for the tyranny of the market, ideological foundation for the fundamentalism of the politically correct: can the &#8216;symbolic fiction&#8217; of universal rights be recuperated for the progressive politicization of actual socio-economic relations?</blockquote></p>

	<p>I was kind of hoping one of the esteemed members of this here blog would at some point do a post on this, but it seems to have gone unoticed (perhaps deservedly so?). I don&#8217;t agree with much of the essay, well if I&#8217;m understanding it correctly which  given the high academic prose style I&#8217;m not sure I am, but it is ultimately worth reading. I think&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112876</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112876</guid>
		<description>Question for Abb1: what&#039;s 2 + 2?

Can you give an answer, or would doing so be an arrogant assumption of Godlike authority, and probably racist?

soru</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Question for Abb1: what&#8217;s 2 + 2?</p>

	<p>Can you give an answer, or would doing so be an arrogant assumption of Godlike authority, and probably racist?</p>

	<p>soru</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112859</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112859</guid>
		<description>&#039;The point is that you can’t (wipe out Abb1&#039;s miserable existence in an instant) though...&#039;

I tremble: Abb1 may be close to realising that, in fact, I am not his ominiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God. Shhh! Nobody tell him. With any luck Abb1 will wander from the Highway of the Freakin&#039; Obvious to frolic upon the Pastures of Impenetrable Metaphor...

&#039;you have no doubt that you can go deep in the bush and separate the sheep from the goats there.&#039;

Indeed, a sheep in the bush is worth two goats in the hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;The point is that you can&#8217;t (wipe out Abb1&#8217;s miserable existence in an instant) though&#8230;&#8217;</p>

	<p>I tremble: Abb1 may be close to realising that, in fact, I am not his ominiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God. Shhh! Nobody tell him. With any luck Abb1 will wander from the Highway of the Freakin&#8217; Obvious to frolic upon the Pastures of Impenetrable Metaphor&#8230;</p>

	<p>&#8216;you have no doubt that you can go deep in the bush and separate the sheep from the goats there.&#8217;</p>

	<p>Indeed, a sheep in the bush is worth two goats in the hand.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112839</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112839</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...I could wipe out your miserable existence in an instant...&lt;/i&gt;

The point is that you can&#039;t, though - and we may be sitting in the same building on the same floor right now. Yet you have no doubt that you can go deep in the bush and separate the sheep from the goats there. Oh, well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8230;I could wipe out your miserable existence in an instant&#8230;</i></p>

	<p>The point is that you can&#8217;t, though &#8211; and we may be sitting in the same building on the same floor right now. Yet you have no doubt that you can go deep in the bush and separate the sheep from the goats there. Oh, well.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112831</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112831</guid>
		<description>&#039;Shorter Dan Hardie: I am your God, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.&#039;

Abb1, that is true, and I could wipe out your miserable existence in an instant. But I have decided, in My mysterious wisdom, that I shall leave you alive, that your perpetual whining may test the charity and perseverance of your fellow man. Don&#039;t all thank Me at once, mortals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;Shorter Dan Hardie: I am your God, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.&#8217;</p>

	<p>Abb1, that is true, and I could wipe out your miserable existence in an instant. But I have decided, in My mysterious wisdom, that I shall leave you alive, that your perpetual whining may test the charity and perseverance of your fellow man. Don&#8217;t all thank Me at once, mortals.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112817</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112817</guid>
		<description>Shorter Dan Hardie: I am your God, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shorter Dan Hardie: I am your God, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112778</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112778</guid>
		<description>Shorter Abb1- (Bonus content): There is no way to&#039;decide who are the criminals and who are the victims&#039; of mass murder. All those Rwandans who hacked themselves to death should be ashamed of themselves, not to mention the Bosnians who jumped into mass graves for a laugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shorter Abb1- (Bonus content): There is no way to&#8217;decide who are the criminals and who are the victims&#8217; of mass murder. All those Rwandans who hacked themselves to death should be ashamed of themselves, not to mention the Bosnians who jumped into mass graves for a laugh.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-2/#comment-112757</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112757</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Dan, you&#039;re the one who gets to decide who are the criminals and who are the victims. You&#039;re the judge, the cop and the executioner appointed by god. 

You should talk to the Serbian guy who sits next to me here about &#039;heavily armed criminals&#039; asserting &#039;that they have a cultural right to commit mass murder&#039;. He&#039;d say that&#039;s you, Dan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, Dan, you&#8217;re the one who gets to decide who are the criminals and who are the victims. You&#8217;re the judge, the cop and the executioner appointed by god.</p>

	<p>You should talk to the Serbian guy who sits next to me here about &#8216;heavily armed criminals&#8217; asserting &#8216;that they have a cultural right to commit mass murder&#8217;. He&#8217;d say that&#8217;s you, Dan.</p>
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		<title>By: Silent E</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-1/#comment-112753</link>
		<dc:creator>Silent E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112753</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The thing about wars is that they’re rather like sitcoms; there are very few good ones. They’re also like sitcoms in that everyone has a real favourite one that was really good and thinks about it so much that they forget that the vasy majority of them were really bad ideas. And finally they are like sitcoms in that there are a small number of people responsible for commissioning them, and they always think, despite all the evidence, that the one they’re thinking about now is going to be one of the good ones.

So what I’m basically saying is that, more than nine times out of ten, if someone says “hey don’t go out Thursday night because there is a brand new sitcom on television”, the sensible thing to say is “I don’t really watch sitcoms because they are almost always crap”, and a similar attitude ought to be taken to wars.

(the other way that wars are like sitcoms is that it is impossible to predict who will like which ones. I know for a fact that several of the most furious supporters of the Iraq War were equally furious opponents of Afghanistan and confidently predict that many of the big opponents of Iraq, quite possibly including myself, will sign up for the next fucking great disaster to be sold to us as a humanitarian intervention)&lt;/i&gt;

This is great.

I liked &quot;Sledgehammer&quot;.  And &quot;Sportsnight&quot;.  And Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The thing about wars is that they&#8217;re rather like sitcoms; there are very few good ones. They&#8217;re also like sitcoms in that everyone has a real favourite one that was really good and thinks about it so much that they forget that the vasy majority of them were really bad ideas. And finally they are like sitcoms in that there are a small number of people responsible for commissioning them, and they always think, despite all the evidence, that the one they&#8217;re thinking about now is going to be one of the good ones.</i></p>

	<p>So what I&#8217;m basically saying is that, more than nine times out of ten, if someone says &#8220;hey don&#8217;t go out Thursday night because there is a brand new sitcom on television&#8221;, the sensible thing to say is &#8220;I don&#8217;t really watch sitcoms because they are almost always crap&#8221;, and a similar attitude ought to be taken to wars.</p>

	<p>(the other way that wars are like sitcoms is that it is impossible to predict who will like which ones. I know for a fact that several of the most furious supporters of the Iraq War were equally furious opponents of Afghanistan and confidently predict that many of the big opponents of Iraq, quite possibly including myself, will sign up for the next fucking great disaster to be sold to us as a humanitarian intervention)</p>

	<p>This is great.</p>

	<p>I liked &#8220;Sledgehammer&#8221;.  And &#8220;Sportsnight&#8221;.  And Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/20/liberal-hawks/comment-page-1/#comment-112747</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=3949#comment-112747</guid>
		<description>&#039;The thing about wars is that they’re rather like sitcoms...&#039;

Sure- just with a bit more mass death and mutilation, and stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;The thing about wars is that they&#8217;re rather like sitcoms&#8230;&#8217;</p>

	<p>Sure- just with a bit more mass death and mutilation, and stuff.</p>
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